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Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins?  (Read 75756 times)
Renegade
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« Reply #650 on: November 24, 2014, 05:54:07 AM »

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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
tomos
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« Reply #651 on: November 24, 2014, 07:50:35 AM »

^ hah, that must be you with Andreas Antonopoulos in Melbourne smiley
I presume you enjoyed
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Tom
Renegade
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« Reply #652 on: November 24, 2014, 10:29:21 AM »

^ hah, that must be you with Andreas Antonopoulos in Melbourne smiley

Yup!

I presume you enjoyed

Very much!

He is a brilliant mind and I was very happy to have met him.

At one point in his speaking, I could see the emotions beginning to flow up to the forefront, and him holding them back. (I was in the front row.) What he talks about matters because he talks about things that affect people's lives in very deep and practical ways.

In many ways some of what he talks about is deeply saddening, but then he presents great hope.

Long before I became involved in Bitcoin, I was cheering it on because I could see good coming out of it.

Now, more than ever, I am still cheering for those same reasons.

"Another world is possible, and we pledge to make it real."

The Pledge of Resistance - Original:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ_o660d0oc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ_o660d0oc</a>

Mix by Jeff Berwick (brilliant):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib0PBZavpuQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib0PBZavpuQ</a>

(I listen to this regularly as it is, well, listen and you'll know why.)

And when people understand that, they will stop using the blood currencies of the warmongering states and start transacting in the currency of voluntarism, peace, and freedom - Bitcoin.

The more people use Bitcoin and stop using fiat, the less power the vampiric, bloodthirsty, warmongering politicians will have.

Make no mistake - we're headed for war right now. Just look at the economies --- states with weak economies go to war. Today is not an exception in history.

The question now is whether people will support more mass murder or not.

Quote
SAUL WILLIAMS PLEDGE OF RESISTANCE LYRICS
We believe that as people living
in the United States it is our
responsibility to resist the injustices
done by our government,
in our names


Not in our name
will you wage endless war
there can be no more deaths
no more transfusions
of blood for oil


Not in our name
will you invade countries
bomb civilians, kill more children
letting history take its course
over the graves of the nameless


Not in our name
will you erode the very freedoms
you have claimed to fight for


Not by our hands
will we supply weapons and funding
for the annihilation of families
on foreign soil


Not by our mouths
will we let fear silence us


Not by our hearts
will we allow whole peoples
or countries to be deemed evil


Not by our will
and Not in our name


We pledge resistance


We pledge alliance with those
who have come under attack
for voicing opposition to the war
or for their religion or ethnicity


We pledge to make common cause
with the people of the world
to bring about justice,
freedom and peace


Another world is possible
and we pledge to make it real.
[/size]

Ideas matter. They're important.

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Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
40hz
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« Reply #653 on: November 24, 2014, 11:00:56 AM »


Ideas matter. They're important.


However, the implementation and execution of ideas are even more important.

Without meaningful, sustainable, and ultimately successful action, they're just more rhetoric.

 Cool
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Renegade
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« Reply #654 on: November 24, 2014, 06:55:10 PM »

However, the implementation and execution of ideas are even more important.

Without meaningful, sustainable, and ultimately successful action, they're just more rhetoric.

 Cool

Bitcoin is still a pretty young technology, and the things happening right now are changing the world. Even "the Internet of money" is a limited view of it.

Smart contracts, tokenized property, micro payments, and arbitrary escrow are just a few things there.

It's more than just rhetoric. It's a multi-billion dollar economy with millions of participants and this is just its infancy.
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Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
barney
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« Reply #655 on: November 24, 2014, 07:28:19 PM »

Smart contracts, tokenized property, micro payments, and arbitrary escrow are just a few things there.

It's more than just rhetoric.
Well, it is rhetoric, at least to me  huh.  For instance:
  • Contracts are neither smart nor dumb (although the parties involved may be).  
  • If you pay $1.00 (USD) once, or a penny 100 times, you still pay the same amount (unless there's interest involved).
How does Bitcoin change that perspective  undecided?

Further, as the Internet gets more and more nationalized, how does Bitcoin survive?  If I cannot contact someone in China, how can I pay them or receive payment from them?  Bitcoin, insofar as I can determine, requires a free and open Web - which is currently being strangled by a significant number of nations.

I'm not averse to the concept, but I simply do not see it surviving in current political climate(s)  Cry.
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40hz
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« Reply #656 on: November 24, 2014, 08:09:13 PM »

However, the implementation and execution of ideas are even more important.

Without meaningful, sustainable, and ultimately successful action, they're just more rhetoric.

 Cool

Bitcoin is still a pretty young technology, and the things happening right now are changing the world. Even "the Internet of money" is a limited view of it.

Smart contracts, tokenized property, micro payments, and arbitrary escrow are just a few things there.

It's more than just rhetoric. It's a multi-billion dollar economy with millions of participants and this is just its infancy.


Agree. A multi-billion dollar economy with millions of users that will be co-opted or assimilated by the current economic system. Not to say that reforms won't ride in along with it. But they will be reforms of existing institutions - not a sea change that will completely replace them.

People with power and guns (i.e. 90% of all current governments) don't relinquish their positions and perks without a fight. A real - as in physical - fight. Something which may come as a surprise to people who primarily see the world through a virtual perceptual framework.

Unless...unless...


Yup. And all we need is for the first 10,000 martyrs to throw themselves on the sword (along with their families and loved ones) and a new era will dawn. That's the unfortunate calculus of all revolutions.

So...any takers?  huh

« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 08:21:01 PM by 40hz » Logged

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Renegade
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« Reply #657 on: November 24, 2014, 11:14:56 PM »

People with power and guns (i.e. 90% of all current governments) don't relinquish their positions and perks without a fight. A real - as in physical - fight.

You remind me of this:



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Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
40hz
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« Reply #658 on: November 24, 2014, 11:36:16 PM »

^Really? I don't even own a gun. Nor do I have any desire to use one. Grin

My point was just that people should know what they're getting into taking a rebel stand. And not delude oneself that a government will play by any sort of rules once the ball gets rolling. Or that's it's helpless in the face of a serious challenge. I saw government with it's claws and fangs out many years ago. It was a sobering lesson in reality. And that was genteel by today’s standards of militarized police forces.

The Oracle at Delphi said: Know thyself. To which I'd add: know what you're letting yourself in for.

 Cool
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tomos
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« Reply #659 on: November 25, 2014, 02:41:27 PM »

hmmm
what I like about bitcoin is that it's outisde the current system.
Does that equate with being rebellious? I dont think so - well not necessarily so. As 40 says, sometimes how you do something is more important, so we may have to wait a bit there.

I dont see this as a 'revolution' in it's traditional meaning -- I think those kind of revolutions never really work anyway -- they're mostly making relatively superficial changes.
What could work is grass roots change -- transformation even ;-)
And to people who think it cannot work -- in one of Antonopoulos's videos he talks about politicians already accepting bribes in bitcoin and this being the start of the end so-to-speak (do you remember which vid that was Ren?).

Re Bitcoin: I'm neither a 'believer' nor a cynic -- but I think bitcoin *is* going to change the world, how exactly, I dont know, but it's made a start already, and even if it fails as a currency, it has opened doors that cannot be closed.
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Tom
40hz
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« Reply #660 on: November 25, 2014, 02:55:54 PM »

Re Bitcoin: I'm neither a 'believer' nor a cynic -- but I think bitcoin *is* going to change the world, how exactly, I dont know, but it's made a start already, and even if it fails as a currency, it has opened doors that cannot be closed.

Agree. But whatever it is, I don't think it will end up being bitcoin. However, Bitcoin might possibly have opened a door for something else.

Whether it will usher in a whole new age remains to be seen. "The street finds it's own uses for things." as William Gibson so aptly said in Neuromancer.

The web was supposed to be empowering and liberating. And maybe it has been. Sorta. But it's also created the potential for a ubiquitous and repressive surveillance state Orwell couldn't have glimpsed in his worst nightmare.
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Renegade
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« Reply #661 on: November 25, 2014, 06:27:17 PM »

^Really? I don't even own a gun. Nor do I have any desire to use one. Grin

I didn't mean to imply that you'd have a rifle in your hands. It was an allusion to the 4th box of liberty. You simply reminded me of that.

And to people who think it cannot work -- in one of Antonopoulos's videos he talks about politicians already accepting bribes in bitcoin and this being the start of the end so-to-speak (do you remember which vid that was Ren?).

He's probably said it a few times in a few different ways. He mentioned politicians taking bitcoin campaign contributions on Monday.

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Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker
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