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Author Topic: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)  (Read 15252 times)

mitzevo

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Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« on: August 21, 2008, 10:45:08 PM »
Google shapes our lives.. well for those who use it any how. Ok, search engines shape our lives, google def. not an exception. All hail big G!  :'(

Quote
When we boot up and get online we hardly notice that Google dispatches a cookie set to expire in 35 years. Then Google filters our reality, dictates our aesthetic, collates and catalogs our memories, chooses what information we mine. The Google experience becomes a collective Rorschach test, which shapes our worldview and affects who we are and what we will become.

Source: http://www.wired.com...e/news/2005/06/67982 - Beware the Google Threat
Written back in 2005 and only one comment?! Looks like people have other things to worry about..

Suppliments: http://www.signonsan.../news_mz1e29top.html - The Google threat
http://www.kith.org/...2003/06/18/1230.html - Google: Threat or Menace?
http://www.buzzmachi...onsolidation-google/ -The real media consolidation: Google
http://www.google-watch.org/ - Google Watch - must see

The clock is running. Make the most of today. Time waits for no man. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 04:20:16 AM by mitzevo »

kartal

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Re: Beware the Google Threat
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2008, 11:02:39 PM »
I have cookie blockers and script blockers. No site can set a cookie!!! I only let couple of them to set.

I also do not use any other google service and I have google adsense!!!!

mitzevo

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Re: Beware the Google Threat
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2008, 11:15:09 PM »
well you'll be going in the "doesn't like/trust us list" then ;) or at least the "wolf" one ;)

ahahaha, j/k.. or am i?  ;)
The clock is running. Make the most of today. Time waits for no man. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 04:20:50 AM by mitzevo »

f0dder

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 08:09:43 AM »
I still wonder why people are so darn paranoid about cookies. Get an ad blocker, and possibly noscript if you're paranoid about flash exploits (like me :)), but cookie blocking? Come on, that's going over the top.

I'm not particularly fond of the way we're being watched, but google is my least concern (I don't do gmail) - I'm much more afraid of things like Carnivore. And tbh, if I have to watch ads, I'd rather have ads that might actually interest me - so yay google analytics.
- carpe noctem

mouser

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 08:30:55 AM »
See my mini-howto on Cleaning Cookies the "proper" way:
http://www.donationc...ex.php?topic=11931.0

kartal

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 11:13:21 AM »
I am not acting based on paranoia, it is not like I think that they are after me or something. I just think that they should have no business in my online behaviour. The fact is that these kinds of practices and policies will never get better, will just get worse until "you" say them stop.

This can be a similar argument like protesting companies like pepsi`s and cocacola`s aggressive marketing tactics(especially to children and under developed world) . Everyone would say well if I stop drinking pepsi it wont haver any affect on the company. That is not true! If you drink 1 pepsi every couple days that is like 100-150$ a year (per person). So yes you as an individual counts, every action yout take counts. Otherwise why would Google go through hassle of creating services like gmail and spreadsheets to service you, market to you? Because every individual counts that is why they set cookies that never expires on your computer.



I still wonder why people are so darn paranoid about cookies. Get an ad blocker, and possibly noscript if you're paranoid about flash exploits (like me :)), but cookie blocking? Come on, that's going over the top.

I'm not particularly fond of the way we're being watched, but google is my least concern (I don't do gmail) - I'm much more afraid of things like Carnivore. And tbh, if I have to watch ads, I'd rather have ads that might actually interest me - so yay google analytics.

Edvard

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 04:31:24 PM »
... I'm much more afraid of things like Carnivore...
Just for the info:
http://en.wikipedia..../wiki/Carnivore_(FBI)

alivingspirit

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 05:28:18 PM »
 :o That is scary! How real is this?

f0dder

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2008, 02:15:56 AM »
:o That is scary! How real is this?
Real enough. And more efficient than the wikipedia article says :)
- carpe noctem

mitzevo

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2008, 03:49:59 AM »
How does Googlelon or Googlevore sound.. lol.. but that's what I was meaning.. Big G may become bigger than them all.. And then the gov will own it by then ofcourse..
The clock is running. Make the most of today. Time waits for no man. Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift. That's why it is called the present.

f0dder

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2008, 11:54:22 AM »
How does Googlelon or Googlevore sound.. lol.. but that's what I was meaning.. Big G may become bigger than them all.. And then the gov will own it by then ofcourse..
Google can do a lot of datamining, but they still don't have their trunks in every ISPs backbone connection :)
- carpe noctem

Curt

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2009, 05:39:38 AM »
A new test has been published:

Quote from: iSec: Cleaning Up After Cookies
http://www.isecpartn...Up_After_Cookies.pdf

Quote
December 31, 2008
Abstract:

Modern web browsers and plugins are rapidly expanding web developers’ ability to store data on users’ sys-
tems, while simultaneously adding features which allow users the perception of more control over that data.
Users need to be confident that their perceptions match reality. Unfortunately, the privacy modes offered by
browsers are still evolving (several are only available as betas), and none remove all the tracking data users might expect them to block.

A tool was created to set and report on different data stores. This paper presents the findings from running this tool using several major browsers with two plug-ins across three common operating systems.  We find current browsers are unable to extend tracking protection to third party plug-ins such as Google Gears and Adobe Flash.  Some of these require no user prompting under common configurations and even expose tracking data saved with one browser sites visited by a different browser. We also recommend approaches for solving these problems.

Thanks to gHacks for telling.

gHacks.gif


And, Yes, f0dder, they do recommend NoScript ;-)

Carol Haynes

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2009, 06:24:06 AM »
... I'm much more afraid of things like Carnivore...
Just for the info:
http://en.wikipedia..../wiki/Carnivore_(FBI)


If you think that is bad have you seen the proposals fromm the UK government - they want a database of ALL email, webpage vists and mobile phone calls for EVERY UK citizen. If they get their way they will force all ISPs and telecom providers to supply the information.

This is of course to 'combat terrorism' - which of course has become the global catchall for anything governemtns wants to do that they know will be unpopular.

Presumably there will be a massive growth in anonymizer services on the internet (unless they all get blocked by ISPs).

Here is just one article outlining the idea:

http://business.time...s/article3965033.ece

Kamel

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2009, 09:49:09 AM »
Google has been bothering me more and more lately. I have always hated doubleclick.net. For many years, I thought it to be one of the most morally inept companies on the internet. Since Google merged (took over, w/e) with them, I have lost about every shred of hope for google. When this happened, I tried very hard to use other services that offer what google does, and I have since been reminded that I use google because there is no alternative. Yahoo has a terrible fugly interface that takes a long time to load in many cases, and the search results aren't much better.

Google did 1 thing right that no one has done in the search engine industry before, they put the customer's needs first rather than their advertising needs first. Google has successfully pulled off a huge monopoly, and my trigger finger is itchy to change to a different service for internet search and e-mail... But unfortunately there are no viable alternatives. Gmail is a long shot better than the next best. (unless there is one I have overlooked, of course, so if you have suggestions feel free to blurt them out :P)

I hope that competition will bring out the competition's desire to be like google, they obviously have a winning solution.
I'm the guy you yell at when your DSL goes down...

Dormouse

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2009, 10:55:40 AM »
Chrome is looking really good too (though I use Iron). And Picasa is close to the ideal solution for people who only want (or can only cope with) basic photo editing/preparation. And my whole family use Google Maps/Earth a lot.

And it is all free. And Google still makes a lot of money.

cmpm

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2009, 11:26:52 AM »
I think there is a difference in casually collecting info for advertisement purposes and aggressively monitoring activity that would make you a target for a particular purpose.

Profiling is what it's called in the US, to single out someone based on certain factors. Like a cop pulling you over cause you have a nice car and a certain color of skin.

To be real, a government agency here in the US can target you as a suspect. Which would give them free access to info google or any other service has collected. And your computer. At will at any time.

For an individual to take aggressive action to block monitoring practices and services would be too time consuming and costly, to me anyway.

If any service is deemed legit and not out to steal or worse, then that don't bother me. Google has it's analytic machine in most sites that I visit.

Not being engaged in illegal practices, I don't worry about it. If I was then that's a whole different ballgame.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth, which is just obvious observation of what happens on my computer. That everyone can plainly see if looking.

Ehtyar

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2009, 02:12:31 PM »
**Ehtyar boots f0d man out of the tin-foil-hat-brigade and inducts kartal as an honorary member.
I also use NoScript and cookie blockers.

And tbh, if I have to watch ads, I'd rather have ads that might actually interest me - so yay google analytics.
You're confusing adsense with the service Google provides to webmasters to analyze their traffic. That should be scary enough.

Chrome was the last nail in Google's coffin for me. I still have a Gmail for websites i expect to send spam, but I imagine you'll find it difficult to find a free email provider that isn't datamining your emails, Google was just up front about it. I won't discuss Chrome, I think pretty much everyone on here knows my opinion on it (and are probably sick of reading it ;)).

My primary concern is simply that modern day society will soon become a surveillance society, and living in Australia no matter what you say is a legitimate concern.

4wd

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2009, 09:55:57 PM »
**Ehtyar boots f0d man out of the tin-foil-hat-brigade and inducts kartal as an honorary member.

I think Kartal should be President actually, he's way too paranoid to be an Honorary Member :P

Quote
I also use NoScript and cookie blockers.

If you're going to deal with Google then at least deal with them on your terms and use Customize Google.

Ehtyar

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2009, 10:04:12 PM »
I think Kartal should be President actually, he's way too paranoid to be an Honorary Member :P
WTF? I'm easily equally paranoid, shutup :P

If you're going to deal with Google then at least deal with them on your terms and use Customize Google.
I tried it and wasn't too impressed. Which features do you find most valuable?

Ehtyar.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 10:08:25 PM by Ehtyar »

4wd

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2009, 10:18:17 PM »
**Ehtyar boots f0d man out of the tin-foil-hat-brigade and inducts kartal as an honorary member.

I think Kartal should be President actually, he's way too paranoid to be an Honorary Member :P
WTF? I'm easily equally paranoid, shutup :P
No way - he actively discourages people from posting Google links as an answer to his posts  :D

Any suggestions? No googleing advices please.


If you're going to deal with Google then at least deal with them on your terms and use Customize Google.
I tried it and wasn't too impressed. Which features do you find most valuable?

All the 'Remove Ads' selections, (increases screen space for more info) - except in Products and Books for obvious reasons.
'Anonymize Google UID' - so I don't have to block the cookies - I have a few GMail accounts.
'Add links to other search sites' - just in case I want to check other results.
'Remove Click Tracking' - because I don't want to be.
'Switch to https' - wherever possible.

Plus a few others to preset Google Search, etc.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 11:06:47 PM by 4wd »

Ehtyar

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2009, 11:40:22 PM »
Most of those features are rendered moot by cookie blocking, NoScript and POPS with Thunderbird. It occurs to me though that you use Customize Google to prevent clicktracking and removal of UID. Why would you be concerned only about Google and no other corporate entity? Google may have amassed the largest database but they're also likely to be under the most intense scrutiny at any given time.

Ehtyar.

P.S. Stop being so damn paranoid Kartal, you're embarrassing me :P

4wd

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2009, 12:48:05 AM »
Most of those features are rendered moot by cookie blocking, NoScript and POPS with Thunderbird. It occurs to me though that you use Customize Google to prevent clicktracking and removal of UID.

I don't block all cookies, (third party only), but all cookies are cleared when I exit Firefox.  And blocking cookies won't give me back the screen space occupied by Google's ads.

Using Thunderbird is OK when I'm sitting at my PC, however when I'm on the road with a laptop I use the web interface - I don't keep email on my laptops.

And it's not removal of UID, it's anonymising it.

So to sum up:
Allow cookies = get ads, waste screen space.
Disallow cookies = No Google account access at all.
Use Customize Google = Google account access, no ads, customised search, force Google pages into https, lots of other options to happify my Google experience.

I could whiz up a GreaseMonkey script to do the https, no ads, etc, but why bother when someone has already created a add-on that takes care of it and adds a few more things ?

Quote
Why would you be concerned only about Google and no other corporate entity?

I visit corporate websites very rarely and NoScript is still running when I do.

And what's with the Spanish Inquisition, (not that I expected it) ?

You, being paranoid, should just accept that the more layers of obfuscation between yourself and everyone is a Good ThingTM :)

EDIT: Sorry, noticed you said corporate entity.  Oh well, there's still NoScript, AdBlock and OSS has a rather large list of sites to block.
        Plus while I can't do something about all of them, I can at least do something about one of them.

BTW, getting back to Carnivore which links to Magic Lanternw, there's a reason right there not to buy or use USA based anti-virus.
Instead, take advantage of the current Lifetime special on the Russian based Outpost Security Suite.   :greenclp:
« Last Edit: January 02, 2009, 01:10:31 AM by 4wd »

Ehtyar

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2009, 01:24:31 AM »
You misunderstood my meaning. What I meant by what I said was that the reason I suspect I didn't find Customize Google useful was that most of its main usability point are already implemented by other browser addons I use.

Ehtyar.

kartal

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Re: Beware the Google Threat - Big Fat Ass Brother (BFAB)
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2013, 07:05:38 PM »
**Ehtyar boots f0d man out of the tin-foil-hat-brigade and inducts kartal as an honorary member.

I think Kartal should be President actually, he's way too paranoid to be an Honorary Member :P

Quote
I also use NoScript and cookie blockers.

If you're going to deal with Google then at least deal with them on your terms and use Customize Google.

Uhmm I think that I was right about my concerns 4 years ago, now that it is all spilled out.