Well, as soon as this conversation devolves into personal attacks I'm out!
Some valid points Carol... I'm not out to save anyone: that's God's job. I may state what I believe (this thread) but I cannot save anyone. Actually, one of my chief complaints is that the church is not acting as it ought to act. Partialy this is because we arent standing up enough in society (probably seen as stepping on other people's beliefs) so dont be too quick to agree with me! Real quick, your response to my 'other people's beliefs' arguement did not invalidate my point. (Not saying my point is irrefutable, just that you merely restated what I was arguing against.)
As far as continuing this discussion, I actually argued with myself about even replying at all. As Innuendo pointed out, these types of discussions often lead to retarded personal attacks (aka Slashdot replies). Also, these types of discussions, while they can be interesting, are not suited to a medium that has no personal communication (meaning face-to-face).
But, I've been thinking about this sort of thing a lot recently and there is one thing that I've noticed: Western culture strives for reasoning an logic while burying feeling and emotion. At the same time we praise people when they do something with feeling. Also, we attempt to make all decisions rationally, based on irrational data. We can NEVER prove anything to anyone else because our culture will not allow it! Compare this to other cultures, where you can "know" something in your heart as well as your head. I had a professor from Israel who told me about this. He mentioned that American culture refuses to know unless we can understand it. But, this takes away love, art, and beauty if followed to it's logical conclusion.
Anyway, I could ramble for hours. But... I'm done. As I said, you and I cannot prove anything to each other! Post-Modernism has done it's work and rendered us rather confused!