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Author Topic: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?  (Read 5485 times)

yksyks

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Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« on: March 23, 2008, 03:51:55 PM »
I'm starting this thread because recently I came across three different events that have something in common and I'd like to know someone else's opinion.

Here they are:

1. I bought a Logitech VX Nano mouse. The mouse itself is excellent, precise, elegant, reliable, etc. To my unpleasant surprise I found out that its wheel doesn't click. In fact, it clicks, but nothing happens. When pressed with more strength, it toggles the ratchet-scrolling mechanism and smooth scrolling. Perfect, by the way. There's also a button just below the wheel. It's by default assigned to "One-touch search", which is not a bad idea, but if you don't redefine it to middle click (or wheel click), you can't control some programs that are dependent on it (Google Sketchup, Google Earth, and auto-scroll in many applications). Even if you do, you're losing some productivity, because pressing the wheel is something different than moving the finger to another button and you have to think of it all the time and you make mistakes. Yes, it's true Logitech nowhere mentions that the wheel is clickable. But I believe this is the only mouse in the world, including all other Logitech mice, that lacks this feature.

2. I purchased Dell Inspiron 1720 laptop. Again, it's excellent in all aspects. During the customized ordering process I noticed under "Sound cards" that I can have for a small supplementary charge "Integrated SoundBlaster Audigy ADVANCED HD Audio". What a surprise when I realized that I have some poor SigmaTel Audio card. Okay, I thought, they made a mistake. Nope. Look what I've found: "It is not a sound card. It is a CD with software." Well, I have the CD. Yes, it's true Dell nowhere mentions explicitly that it's hardware.

3. I bought a Stagg PA System (PA4/200), with the specification of "2 X 100W RMS" output and it comes with two speakers. And again to my surprise I realized that despite it has two outputs, they are connected together. So this is not stereo. It's not even a dual channel amplifier. The both outputs are the same all the time, no way to split them. And again, yes, it's true Stagg nowhere mentions that this is a stereo or dual channel amplifier. It just has two outputs. Does it have two outputs? Yes, sir.

I can imagine one day buying a perfect car and the next morning realizing that I can't leave the garage, because the car lacks a reverse gear. But the manufacturer never mentioned it has a reverse gear...

There are some things in life I'd call reasonable assumptions. I believe that all cars can reverse. I believe that wheel mice have wheel-click. I believe that sound-card is a piece of hardware. And I believe that amplifier with two outputs is at least dual-channel. The common principle in all these three cases was that my assumptions were apparently wrong, let alone reasonable! However, I feel cheated. It's just impossible to study all the features and read all available reviews.

And now tell me: Am I too demanding, or just naive when I'm buying things based on evidently wrong assumptions? -- Anyway, you've been warned at least.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 03:54:36 PM by yksyks »

TucknDar

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2008, 04:43:24 PM »
1. I bought a Logitech VX Nano mouse. The mouse itself is excellent, precise, elegant, reliable, etc. To my unpleasant surprise I found out that its wheel doesn't click. In fact, it clicks, but nothing happens. When pressed with more strength, it toggles the ratchet-scrolling mechanism and smooth scrolling. Perfect, by the way. There's also a button just below the wheel. It's by default assigned to "One-touch search", which is not a bad idea, but if you don't redefine it to middle click (or wheel click), you can't control some programs that are dependent on it (Google Sketchup, Google Earth, and auto-scroll in many applications). Even if you do, you're losing some productivity, because pressing the wheel is something different than moving the finger to another button and you have to think of it all the time and you make mistakes. Yes, it's true Logitech nowhere mentions that the wheel is clickable. But I believe this is the only mouse in the world, including all other Logitech mice, that lacks this feature.

And now tell me: Am I too demanding, or just naive when I'm buying things based on evidently wrong assumptions? -- Anyway, you've been warned at least.
No, you're not too demanding!

Having said that, I can highly recommend uberOptions. I have the same mouse as you (actually, the previous model, not nano.), and installed uberOptions and I can now configure everything about the moust! I use the little search button to Alt-tab, for instance, and I can click the mousewheel allright (can't remember not being able to do this before, btw). This really is an excellent enhancement to logitech mouse!

TucknDar

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2008, 04:47:07 PM »
I should add that you need Logitech SetPoint installed, which I suppose you already have.


edit: Logitech make some really awesome products, such as this mouse and also the Harmony remote controls, but what is their software developers thinking... The SetPoint package is 54mb!! I've seen full OS' smaller than that!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 04:48:38 PM by TucknDar »

tomos

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 08:25:30 PM »
re sounds, try
Control Panel > Sounds > Advanced:-
and change the settings to stereo headphones and see does that make it stereo
Tom

yksyks

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 01:51:53 AM »
@ TucknDar:

Thanks for the tip, ├╝berOptions looks nice, but I don't need to redefine all the buttons, I could do it with HotkeyP should I need it. The problem is that the wheel doesn't produce any signal, so there's no solution. The only mouse in the world...

@ tomos:

It has nothing to do with computers. The amplifier is deliberately wired as mono. Both the power amplifiers have theirs inputs wired together on a PCB, all the four inputs are connected to a single bus, even the input line RCA connector channels are short-cricuit together.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 05:24:19 AM by yksyks »

TucknDar

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 04:49:34 AM »
@ TucknDar:

Thanks for the tip, ├╝berOptions looks nice, but I don't need to redefine all the buttons, I could do it with HotkeyP should I need it. The problem is that the wheel doesn't produce any signal, so there's no solution. The only mouse in the world...
Really? No signal at all? That's strange. As I said, I've got the pre-nano version, which certainly can click the mousewheel. That certainly is an odd "development" from Logitech :huh:

yksyks

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 05:23:50 AM »
Yes, hard to believe, isn't it? Look at the response of the ├╝berOptions author. No solution. Having written that, none of the mentioned cases has a solution. I just wanted to warn the community.

TucknDar

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 05:46:20 AM »
Quote
The wheel click on the VX Nano is a mechanical switch to changing the scrolling modes (free spin vs. click-to-click scrolling) and can not be used as a button. The tilt left/right actions of the wheel or the search button can be set to the Middle Click action.
:o
That really sucks. Have you considered remapping tilt left or right to middleclick? If the search button doesn't do for you (I can understand, because it isn't too comfortable, tbh.) and if you don't need sideways scrolling then I suppose that's the closest you get.

I actually wanted a VX nano for the tiny USB connector, but I definitely won't buy one if I can't click the wheel.

yksyks

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 06:28:20 AM »
Good I could save you from such a disillusion. I wouldn't buy it either, had I known this before...

I was thinking about using the wheel tilt, too, but it's a useful feature. Besides, when you need wheel-click and drag (in Sketchup), it wouldn't be very handy.

So, I'm getting used to the separate middle button. It really sucks, because I'm used to close tabs and applications with it and when I'm on my desktop I have to switch to a real wheel-click again, etc.

vradmilovic

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 08:51:48 AM »
And now tell me: Am I too demanding

Not at all. Having those all the time, although, as some kind of vendor, I'm often not inclined to call it "cheating", just "lousy design", "unawareness of need" or "too complicated to implement in this case".

Here are few of my examples, from the top of the head:

- Dishwasher with 8 programs (max. that I could find here), but no program for fast few minutes rinsing without detergent. Fastest way is to use 20 minute program with small amount of detergent (we're using regular sized tablets, so no way to do this).

- DVD player with radio - radio works only if headphones/ext. speakers are plugged in, not if you use AUX outputs.

- Database system/library that locks whole table if in transaction.

- Invoicing software that allows template changing: you have GUI to change colors in HTML template, but HTML is hardcoded so there is no way to add or remove things.

- Modern phone with only one entry in redial history.

- Car with an option to lock rear doors (children protection). With a previous 10-years old model of (almost) same car, unlocking has been done automatically by opening front doors, and new model requires you to exit the car and open door from the outside.

- Same car: doors are automatically locked if speed exceeds 10 kmph, but you can open any door from the inside, unless children protection from above is activated (see above: in this case, it's never possible to open rear doors from the inside, locked or not). What's this? A hijacking protection?

- A laptop with just two USB ports placed so close one to each other - no way to use both unless you are using very thin cable.

List goes on and on... :)
Vladimir Radmilovic
- <a href="http://www.agendaatonce.com/">Agenda At Once - PIM and to-do list software</a>
- <a href="http://www.cd-label-designer.com/">CD Label Designer - powerful cd label maker</a>
- <a href="http://www.weblogstorming.com/">Web Log Storming - interactive web log analyzer</a>

yksyks

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2008, 11:44:20 AM »
I have to revive this thread and add another case to this topic. This time I managed to avoid buying the product, though.

So be warned anyone tempted to purchase Panasonic VDR-D50 digital camcorder. On the manufacturer's pages you can read:
Quote
Records to 8cm DVD and SD Card
After my experiences described above I became suspicious, because the camera was not labeled as "hybrid" and only after downloading the full User's manual and browsing through it I realized that you can record on the SD card still pictures only! I couldn't believe my eyes. In 2008, anyone really cares about taking 640x480 resolution pictures and storing them on 8 GB SD card? Every cell phone has a better resolution, and who would buy a movie camera for taking poor still pictures? So what's the point of the SD slot? Maybe the specifications just look better. They simply follow the same pattern as those cases above.

Along the same lines goes the information about the recording time: 36 minutes on double-sided DVD. Only after reading the manual (or in worse case after purchasing the camera), you'll discover that after 18 minutes you have to stop the recording, open the camera, turn the media over, close the compartment and continue. Why not to say that you have 3 hours of recording--and in some small footnote the additional info reading "on 10 DVDs"?

Well, this could not be called directly cheating, but anyway, I wouldn't call such a behavior decent. A big disappointment from Panasonic.

Renegade

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Re: Am I too demanding, or are they all cheating?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 09:35:16 PM »
...
Well, this could not be called directly cheating, but anyway, I wouldn't call such a behavior decent. A big disappointment from Panasonic.

Ahem... Panasonic Sucks!

This is all pretty standard now. The major manufacturers no longer make money on selling decent products to people and gaining repeat business.

They all now make money by being so large and dominating the distribution channels so well that no other players can reasonably get into distribution. Coupled with their economies of scale, even if someone could get in, they couldn't offer anything reasonably equivalent without setting a massive price tag.

As such, there is no motivation to improve products. However, they can still make more money by skimping on things and overselling underpowered/underfeatured products to consumers that by now are used to taking it in the @$$ pretty darn hard.

Other ways to skimp on products include having documentation of 10 pages to explain a that complex product is a product, but not tell you much more.

Banks, insurance companies, financial companies, securities companies, hardware manufacturers, software houses, etc. etc. etc. They all deliver short of what one would think is reasonable.

Insurance companies make money by sneaking in clauses that allow them to never pay out any money. They then hire people to investigate claims and make sure that the people don't get paid.

Why should the hardware manufacturers be any different?

Technical support is manned by talking monkeys that have a set list of 3 answers to 3 questions:

Q 1: My computer isn't working.
A 1: Plug it in.

Q 2: My MP3 player isn't working.
A 2: Charge the battery.

Q 3: My audio card drivers cause a kernel panic.
A 3: Reinstall the OS.

Support no longer answers questions. They just give some crap answers that mean nothing. Why? Because hiring intelligent people that can solve problems costs money. It's easier to hire a talking monkey for cheap.

Nothing lasts anymore as it's all made with the cheapest plastics that can be bought. High-density, durable materials cost money. Besides, when it breaks, consumers need to buy another. Self-sabotage.

You're not being unreasonable in the least. You're merely implicitly pointing out the current environment that companies are working in, and the ways in which they are cheating and deceiving consumers.


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