Author Topic: NANY 2012 Release: Ethervane Echo (Read 568,132 times)

Sascha · « **Reply #150 on:** January 19, 2012, 01:18 PM »

I fully understand your reason!

Maybe a Tooltip will do the job (like Dittos F3) - it should be a preview - no more, no less

tranglos · « **Reply #151 on:** January 19, 2012, 01:53 PM »

Quote from: Sascha on January 19, 2012, 01:18 PM

I fully understand your reason!

Maybe a Tooltip will do the job (like Dittos F3) - it should be a preview - no more, no less :)

That's a possibility, although you cannot scroll a tooltip :) and it requires the mouse. Also, a tooltip would only show the "display text" part of a clip, which for larger clips may not be the complete text (depending on your settings).

I've been thinking about a read-only side panel that can be hidden if not used. Maybe even with an optional binary / hex view so that you can inspect all formats of a clip besides just the plain text.

And though I hate to admit it, I'm starting to feel a need for some additional metadata on clips. Not necessarily categories or tags, and not a tree hierarchy at all - just some way of "naming" or describing clips to find them easier. For example, every month I pay my bills online and need to find and paste a bunch of bank account numbers. But I can't find them by their digits :) So it would help to name a clip "electricity bill account", "tax account" etc.

This text must of course be searchable and displayed somewhere, so it's a major addition. But if I decide to add that, then Echo will need a side panel anyway.

First though I need to work on that clip length bug :)

Sascha · « **Reply #152 on:** January 19, 2012, 02:28 PM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 19, 2012, 01:53 PM

And though I hate to admit it, I'm starting to feel a need for some additional metadata on clips. Not necessarily categories or tags, and not a tree hierarchy at all - just some way of "naming" or describing clips to find them easier. For example, every month I pay my bills online and need to find and paste a bunch of bank account numbers. But I can't find them by their digits So it would help to name a clip "electricity bill account", "tax account" etc.

Clipmate has such a feature

Quote from: tranglos on January 19, 2012, 01:53 PM

That's a possibility, although you cannot scroll a tooltip and it requires the mouse. Also, a tooltip would only show the "display text" part of a clip, which for larger clips may not be the complete text (depending on your settings).

I've been thinking about a read-only side panel that can be hidden if not used. Maybe even with an optional binary / hex view so that you can inspect all formats of a clip besides just the plain text.

You'll make the right decision

(the need of using a mouse is

)

tranglos · « **Reply #153 on:** January 19, 2012, 03:01 PM »

Quote from: Sascha on January 19, 2012, 02:28 PM

Clipmate has such a feature ;)

Oh, I know. So does Mouser's Clipboard Help & Spell. Both are more suitable for long-term storage, where clips almost become notes. (I do recommend you check out CH&S if you haven't yet. If you store code snippets, that's probably long term, and CH&S may indeed be more suitable.)

Me, I think I should better keep these account numbers (etc.) in another application, maybe Evernote or something similar. CintaNotes is great, too (except for editing clips in a separate window).

It's a (somewhat :-) interesting philosophical question. What is the difference between a captured clip - which is typically a transient, throw-away piece of data, and 99% of the time you won't cry if you lose it, and indeed you lose them all the time when you press Ctrl+C - and a note, which you think of as something permanent that you probably don't want to lose (and it probably has a title).

Applications that do clips and applications that do notes may look quite similar on the surface: categories to one side, list of items on the other; but the underlying philosophy is quite different. You would not have an automatic "purge database" function in a note taking app, for instance, but you do have it in a clipboard extender, because you don't want the database to continue growing forever, and search speed is more important than holding fifty thousand clips. In a note-taker, you may prefer to sacrifice some speed for the ability to hold all your life's notes in one archive. Or, you don't want a note-taker to capture clipboard, because it will accumulate a ton of useless trash, making it harder to find your important notes. And so on. So these philosophical issues translate into design decisions, and Echo is not a very good note-taker.

Sascha · « **Reply #154 on:** January 19, 2012, 03:30 PM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 19, 2012, 03:01 PM

...Echo is not a very good note-taker

I do not need one - I need Echo as it is (with some small improvements)

I mean to say that I do not need those note-taking features like renaming etc.

Echo should stay a lightweight application!

tranglos · « **Reply #155 on:** January 20, 2012, 03:14 AM »

New version released January 20: 1.0.5.108

See the top post in this thread for download links.

This is the primarily a bugfix release. I planned new goodies, but bugs come first. Still, a few minor requests have made it into this build:

ADDED: When you copy or paste a clip, Echo would always update the clip's timestamp, so that the clip would move to the top of the list when sorted by date. This is now optional: Preferences -> Pasting clips -> UpdateClipTimeStamp. This setting is still True by default, so that Echo's behavior does not change unless you modify this setting. (Thanks, Easye!)

ADDED (by popular request): Option to minimize Echo when the Close button on the title bar is clicked. This option is disabled by default. To enable it, click Tools -> Preferences -> Display -> MinimizeOnCloseButton and set the option to True. When enabled, you must use the File -> Exit command (or press Alt+F4) to really quit Echo.

ADDED (by popular request): If the activation hotkey is pressed while Echo is already the active application, Echo will be minimized. Effectively, the activation hotkey acts as a toggle. To restore the old behavior, click Tools -> Preferences -> Keyboard -> ActivationHotkeyToggle and set the option to False.

ADDED: The connection indicator icon in the status bar may now display a third state: suspended (yellow marker). This indicates Echo remains connected to the clipboard, but capturing clips is temporarily suspended, for example because a clip is being edited. (Capturing clips while editing is not yet possible, hence the indicator.)

FIXED: A bug that caused an error when a system clipboard format was added to the list of captured formats (thanks, Sascha!)

FIXED: A bug that caused Echo to "hang" for a few seconds and then display an error message as it could not open the clipboard in the Available Clipboard Formats dialog box when the Refresh button was clicked.

FIXED: A bug that would sometimes cause an error when editing a clip in-place.

FIXED: Echo was showing the "Connected to clipboard" tray notification too eagerly (even when it had not actually re-connected)

Sascha · « **Reply #156 on:** January 20, 2012, 07:27 AM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 20, 2012, 03:14 AM

New version released January 20: 1.0.5.108

Quote from: tranglos on January 20, 2012, 03:14 AM

ADDED (by popular request): Option to minimize Echo when the Close button on the title bar is clicked. This option is disabled by default. To enable it, click Tools -> Preferences -> Display -> MinimizeOnCloseButton and set the option to True. When enabled, you must use the File -> Exit command (or press Alt+F4) to really quit Echo.

Thanks a lot!

epopuI · « **Reply #157 on:** January 20, 2012, 09:15 AM »

I am enjoying this program

Keep up the hard work

Thank you

easye · « **Reply #158 on:** January 21, 2012, 12:23 AM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 20, 2012, 03:14 AM

ADDED: When you copy or paste a clip, Echo would always update the clip's timestamp, so that the clip would move to the top of the list when sorted by date. This is now optional: Preferences -> Pasting clips -> UpdateClipTimeStamp. This setting is still True by default, so that Echo's behavior does not change unless you modify this setting. (Thanks, Easye!)

Thanks very much! The new feature works great. Now I'll get the chance to try it out on a daily basis.

tranglos · « **Reply #159 on:** January 22, 2012, 11:07 PM »

Quote from: Sascha on January 12, 2012, 07:27 AM

possibility to configure the directory for saving the database
possibility to configure the directory for saving the application-settings (ini)

Done, the next release will have it. The custom folder can be specified in the master.config file or on command-line; the Help file will have all the details.

yarond · « **Reply #160 on:** January 22, 2012, 11:24 PM »

Hi,

First thing, thank you for the program. I switched from ditto after a few years of using it, since Ethervane Echo covers some of the problems I had with it, without losing anything that I really used. So far, after a few weeks of testing it, it seems to work very well.

I do have a feature request, relating to the option not to store clips from certain programs (one of my issues with ditto).
For most cases basing this on the application is the right thing to do and exactly what is needed. But there are cases where it would be nice to be able to selectively not store a clip based on part of the title too (well, based on the context, but title is the only technically feasible way to do that usually), and not for the entire program.

For example in cases where maybe there are just a few business of financial documents that contain sensitive data that shouldn't be stored someplace else, or anything copied from the browser when on the site of a bank or some web/javascript password manager, cases where instead of a passwords are stored in a general encrypted note-taking application and other notes from there should be stored, and so on...

I don't think it's a widespread need, but there are some cases where it will make my life a bit easier (some, though happily not all, of the examples above), and I think it's also not that rare.

Adding to the application filter list some way to add modifiers to the program name, which must exist on the title of the window copying from, would probably be good enough.

I'm not sure if it's a good idea to also allow a title filter for all programs or not. On the good side it will work for websites when using multiple browsers, or documents that may be opened with multiple programs. But on the other hand it will probably complicate things, it will increase the chance of accidental matches, and realistically I think any file of website with sensitive information is probably not opened with more than one, or maybe two, programs on a regular basis.

Sascha · « **Reply #161 on:** January 23, 2012, 12:03 PM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 22, 2012, 11:07 PM

Quote from: Sascha on January 12, 2012, 07:27 AM
possibility to configure the directory for saving the database
possibility to configure the directory for saving the application-settings (ini)

Done, the next release will have it. The custom folder can be specified in the master.config file or on command-line; the Help file will have all the details.

Hooray - thanks in advance

tranglos · « **Reply #162 on:** January 23, 2012, 01:53 PM »

Quote from: yarond on January 22, 2012, 11:24 PM

Adding to the application filter list some way to add modifiers to the program name, which must exist on the title of the window copying from, would probably be good enough.

Welcome to DC, Yarond, and thanks for your suggestion.

I agree with you all the way and have added your idea to the wishlist. Just to be sure though: do you think it would be sufficient to simply have a list of (partial) window titles, independent from the list of filtered applications? That would be easy to do, but in that case these titles would match any application, so a filter might sweep too much.

A better alternative is to be able to say "this application *and* any of these (partial) window titles". It would provide for better fine-tuning of the filters.

yarond · « **Reply #163 on:** January 23, 2012, 03:34 PM »

Quote

I agree with you all the way and have added your idea to the wishlist.

Thank you.

Quote

A better alternative is to be able to say "this application *and* any of these (partial) window titles". It would provide for better fine-tuning of the filters.

I agree.

I think that the potential disadvantage here (if someone does want to block storing from the same source for multiple different programs then they'll need to define it multiple times in the filter) is better than the, probably much more likely, alternative of a risk of matching also unwanted and unexpected windows.

kyrathaba · « **Reply #164 on:** January 24, 2012, 02:14 PM »

yarond, welcome to the site!

yarond · « **Reply #165 on:** January 25, 2012, 03:33 PM »

Quote from: kyrathaba on January 24, 2012, 02:14 PM

yarond, welcome to the site!

Thanks.

Been an occasional reader in some of the forums here for a while, but as a rule I try to follow the "if you don't have anything to say then don't say it" creed.

kyrathaba · « **Reply #166 on:** January 26, 2012, 02:16 AM »

Heh, if I followed that policy, I'd still be below 500 posts

tranglos · « **Reply #167 on:** January 27, 2012, 02:19 AM »

New version released January 27: 1.0.6.110

See the top post in this thread for download links.

Two new features by request:

ADDED: A new option to keep main program window on top of other windows (often called "stay on top"). Disabled by default. To enable, click View -> Keep on Top of Other Windows.

- This is somewhat experimental. I have managed to get it to work correctly on my system, but if you observe any problems, please disable the option and let me know. Particularly if dialog boxes should become inaccessible (hidden behind the on-top main window).

ADDED: Echo can now store its database and configuration files in any user-specified folder. This works the same way for both the desktop and portable editions. Custom folder can be specified on the command line or in the master.config file. This is useful for example if you want Echo to keep its data and configuration in a folder that you can easily include in your backup.

The folder does not have to exist, but Echo must be able to create it if it does not.

a) Command-line usage (you can add that to the shortcut used to start Echo):

Code

ethervaneecho.exe -f:<your custom folder here>

Note: it's "-f", then a colon, then the folder. If the folder contains spaces, it must be put in quotation marks:

Code

ethervaneecho.exe -f:"c:\my random stuff"

b) master.config file usage (will affect everyone using Echo on the same computer):

Code

; in the [EchoDatabase] section
[EchoDatabase]

; add this line:
directoryoverride=<your custom folder here>

For more information see relevant topics in the Help file (master.config and command-line arguments)

OK, so this is a small update I wanted to get out the door, because there's plenty of other stuff queued up that needs more time, so the next release may take a bit longer (unless it's an urgent bugfix, but let's hope not :-).

tranglos · « **Reply #168 on:** January 27, 2012, 02:24 AM »

Quote from: jash on January 11, 2012, 04:46 PM

1. As requested earlier in this forum, I too would like an "always-on-top" feature.

Done in the latest release (out now). Please let mew know if there are any problems.

hangdawg · « **Reply #169 on:** January 27, 2012, 05:08 AM »

hi tranglos i have 4 quick veiws set-up clips, sticky,urls, and all clips is there a way to fix it to have the stickys only show up in the stickys and the all clips quick veiw ive tried filters but the best i could come up with is using a time filter Ethervane Echo is working great thanks

Sascha · « **Reply #170 on:** January 27, 2012, 07:01 AM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 27, 2012, 02:19 AM

New version released January 27: 1.0.6.110

ADDED: Echo can now store its database and configuration files in any user-specified folder. This works the same way for both the desktop and portable editions. Custom folder can be specified on the command line or in the master.config file. This is useful for example if you want Echo to keep its data and configuration in a folder that you can easily include in your backup.

Thanks a lot, Marek!

tranglos · « **Reply #171 on:** January 27, 2012, 11:02 AM »

Quote from: hangdawg on January 27, 2012, 05:08 AM

hi tranglos i have 4 quick veiws set-up clips, sticky,urls, and all clips is there a way to fix it to have the stickys only show up in the stickys and the all clips quick veiw ive tried filters but the best i could come up with is using a time filter Ethervane Echo is working great thanks

You can add a "Sticky clips" filter to a view and reverse it, so that the filter will show only non-sticky clips.

There may be one hitch however: for this to work, the option to match ALL filters much be selected if there is more than one filter. If you have a view that already uses multiple filters, and the filters are joined with OR ("Match any filter" is selected), then this won't work. Echo can only apply "any of the filters" or "all of the filters", but not "any of these filters AND this one as well".

It will work for the default view though, which contains no filters initially.

hangdawg · « **Reply #172 on:** January 27, 2012, 06:06 PM »

hi tranglos your idea worked great because i renamed the default to clips

Quote

hi tranglos i have 4 quick veiws set-up clips, sticky,urls, and all clips

so it worked perfectly

thanks

jash · « **Reply #173 on:** January 28, 2012, 03:11 PM »

Quote from: tranglos on January 27, 2012, 02:24 AM

Quote from: jash on January 11, 2012, 04:46 PM
1. As requested earlier in this forum, I too would like an "always-on-top" feature.

Done in the latest release (out now). Please let mew know if there are any problems.

Thank you tranglos for adding this feature. It's working fine for me on my Win7 (64bit) machine -- only the "Help" submenu windows appear behind the main window when the feature is on. Not to be ungrateful, but is there also a setting to keep the main window open/maximized after pasting clips? A similar setting already exists for copying clips, but I couldn't find one for pasting clips. Keep up the great work!

tranglos · « **Reply #174 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:15 PM »

Quote from: jash on January 28, 2012, 03:11 PM

It's working fine for me on my Win7 (64bit) machine -- only the "Help" submenu windows appear behind the main window when the feature is on.

I.e., the help file? This would be normal. When you open help, you're starting a separate application. That application will be hidden behind any "on top" window, just like any other app.

Quote

is there also a setting to keep the main window open/maximized after pasting clips? A similar setting already exists for copying clips, but I couldn't find one for pasting clips.

This isn't available because it isn't really possible. In order to paste, Echo has to minimize / hide itself first, so that the previously active window becomes uncovered. Otherwise that window would not process input events, so the paste feature would not work at all. (Or, it would not work in a lot of cases, which is just as bad.)

In theory, Echo could hide, paste, then restore itself. But that won't work either due to how Windows blocks applications from stealing focus. Windows allows applications to activate themselves and grab focus only in three ways:

when you physically activate the application (e.g. by a click)
when an activation hotkey is pressed
an application that currently has focus may yield focus to another app.

There are no exceptions. So, once Echo's window is deactivated, the OS will not let Echo get focus again without any action from the user. (Echo could "restore" the window, but it will not receive focus until you click it or press the activation hotkey.)