Author Topic: Directory Opus 11 Released! (Read 136,286 times)

Innuendo · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2014, 06:42 PM »

I, for one, am against this "be careful what you say or our discounts will go away" mentality. For one, it's censorship plain and simple. Second, it sounds like they are buying our silence. Often print magazine reviews aren't taken seriously when they appear next to huge glossy ads for the products in the review.

In other words, when we start behaving this way there's an appearance of either a conflict of interest or we've been 'bought and paid for'.

If someone wants to offer me a discount on the condition I can't criticize their product then I don't want their discount or anything to do with them. I am not for sale & I hope others on this web site feel the same way.

DC has survived years without dealing in payola and I believe DC can survive in the future without it as well.

mwb1100 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2014, 07:08 PM »

Quote from: Innuendo on March 05, 2014, 06:42 PM

I, for one, am against this "be careful what you say or our discounts will go away" mentality.

I agree - everyone should keep in mind that we would all welcome a correction about anything incorrect in this thread. FWIW, I vaguely recall the upgrade discount for DO being larger when the upgrade was being done within a few months of a new release. In other words, my recollection agrees in general with what tomos posted, though I'm entirely unsure of the details (such as the time frame or the level of discount).

Because I didn't recall those details, I didn't post anything about it before. But since someone has characterized it as "untruths and garbage", I want to chime in now to say that my memory - which might be somewhat faulty, especially on details - agrees with what tomos posted.

And for what it's worth, I have a couple DO licenses, and I've upgraded in the past, but don't always upgrade when they have a major release. It looks like I've paid for Dopus 6, 8, and 9. Also, I'm not upset in any way - I knew what the general policy on DO updates is and when they come out with a major new version I evaluate whether or not I want to spend the money on the upgrade,.

wraith808 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 05, 2014, 07:20 PM »

It's not about payola. It's about realizing that one hasty word can make those conversations a lot more difficult, so we need to be cautious about realizing that there are definitely ramifications about saying things that may or may not be true. And it's not about being bought and paid for- we still tell the truth. I told nothing but the unmitigated truth in my reviews for some of these things- but I was also diplomatic about the use of words that are inflammatory and packed with emotion. Especially in regards to things that may have had me hot under the collar for my experiences. Taking consideration of what you say and the ramifications thereof should *always* be a consideration when posting IMO. Would you say it to the person in person? Or would you perhaps ask or say things in a different way. Then your posting on a board should take the same thing into account. Respect and consideration are the key- not changing what you say, just how you say it.

First, it's not censorship. It was an admonishment from *me* from *my experiences*. As I have no way to enforce or say anything as a policy, it's not censorship. No one said to do anything other than to take it into account. Whatever you want to do, it's on you.

Second, there is no 'buying silence'. There was apparently something said that was incorrect. I didn't rebut it, because I don't know. But I offered him the ability to come here and do it, or to let me know what was incorrect so I could post it. How is that buying silence? And I have no intent of going back to him with any changes or anything to say- "see? We've fixed it. Now can we have a discount?" That's not what I was saying at all, nor what was meant. It's decently insulting to say so, also... so I'm going to back off of this with one last statement.

A lot of us haven't had anything to do with fostering these relationships behind the scenes, nor do we realize how hard it is. I didn't fully appreciate the efforts of cthorpe in that regard until I started dealing with them. To walk that line of building a relationship with developers based on mutual benefit without compromising DC is something that is quite difficult. And many developers already don't want to give specialized discounts nor work with sites. And it's a lot of work. It's easy to talk about it, and hard to do it. I just want to thank the people who have taken this role in the past. And wish the best to anyone who takes it in the future.

katykaty · « **Reply #28 on:** March 05, 2014, 07:21 PM »

I'm in 2 minds about this upgrade. It's hard to see what killer improvement is there, especially when it costs AUS$50 for the upgrade.

But then again, it's DO. Got to have DO. Can't not have DO

JonPotter · « **Reply #29 on:** March 05, 2014, 08:14 PM »

Just to clarify - the 40% discount for Opus 9 -> 10 was available for more than 2 years after release, and it then dropped to 30%.

We aren't really upset or anything, but please look at it from our point of view - we get an email from DonationCoder saying "hey, can we have a discount please!", so we come to DonationCoder to see what people are saying, and find a thread where mostly what they're saying is what horribly nasty thieves we are.

mwb1100 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 05, 2014, 08:28 PM »

Quote from: JonPotter on March 05, 2014, 08:14 PM

Just to clarify - the 40% discount for Opus 9 -> 10 was available for more than 2 years after release, and it then dropped to 30%.

Thanks for coming to set those details straight.

tn_dang · « **Reply #31 on:** March 05, 2014, 08:52 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 05:21 PM

Quote from: tn_dang on March 05, 2014, 04:48 PM
Quote from: wraith808 on March 04, 2014, 07:32 PM
I'm still on 9. I love DO. I just can't justify the price that often. It was the same with SlickEdit.
SlickEdit is still better in the sense that the user can use it on multiple computer.

You can do the same with DO. I do currently.

Quote

http://www.gpsoft.com.au/order_intro.html

Directory Opus is licenced on a per-machine basis.

wraith808 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 05, 2014, 09:35 PM »

Quote from: tn_dang on March 05, 2014, 08:52 PM

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 05:21 PM
Quote from: tn_dang on March 05, 2014, 04:48 PM
Quote from: wraith808 on March 04, 2014, 07:32 PM
I'm still on 9. I love DO. I just can't justify the price that often. It was the same with SlickEdit.
SlickEdit is still better in the sense that the user can use it on multiple computer.

You can do the same with DO. I do currently.
Quote
http://www.gpsoft.com.au/order_intro.html

Directory Opus is licenced on a per-machine basis.

Right... but I bought a two machine license. And I always renew on that basis. So its actually three machines since they give you a free laptop one with your original. Just for reference:

Quote

Directory Opus Pro Single - Single machine licence plus one personal laptop
Directory Opus Pro Dual - Two machine licence plus one personal laptop
Directory Opus Pro Five - Five machine licence plus one personal laptop

dr_andus · « **Reply #33 on:** March 05, 2014, 09:53 PM »

Quote from: katykaty on March 05, 2014, 07:21 PM

I'm in 2 minds about this upgrade. It's hard to see what killer improvement is there, especially when it costs AUS$50 for the upgrade.

I was wondering about the same thing. I'm having a hard time finding the killer feature for me. I consider myself a basic user of Dopus (I don't even customise it myself, just use Andy's setup), but the new features seem to be targeting the super-sophisticated user that can write their own scripts and customise the hell out of the interface.

cyberdiva · « **Reply #34 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:01 PM »

Quote from: tn_dang on March 05, 2014, 04:48 PM

SlickEdit is still better in the sense that the user can use it on multiple computer.

When I bought DOpus 8, I bought a dual license so that I could use DOpus on two computers (probably my laptop and my desktop). When I upgraded to version 9, I was pleased to see that the single-user license now covered a laptop in addition to the desktop, so I was able to save some money. This policy continued in version 10 and, I hope and assume, in version 11 as well (I haven't yet upgraded). Here's a statement of the policy in the User's Manual for version 10: The standard license is a single-installation license which allows the installation of the SOFTWARE on one physical machine only, for exclusive use on that machine only, plus one personal laptop owned by and in exclusive use by the registered purchaser.

wraith808 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:04 PM »

Quote from: cyberdiva on March 05, 2014, 10:01 PM

Quote from: tn_dang on March 05, 2014, 04:48 PM
SlickEdit is still better in the sense that the user can use it on multiple computer.
When I bought DOpus 8, I bought a dual license so that I could use DOpus on two computers (probably my laptop and my desktop). When I upgraded to version 9, I was pleased to see that the single-user license now covered a laptop in addition to the desktop, so I was able to save some money. This policy continued in version 10 and, I hope and assume, in version 11 as well (I haven't yet upgraded). Here's a statement of the policy in the User's Manual for version 10: The standard license is a single-installation license which allows the installation of the SOFTWARE on one physical machine only, for exclusive use on that machine only, plus one personal laptop owned by and in exclusive use by the registered purchaser.

It's still the same- I quoted the relevant version from the pricing page above.

cyberdiva · « **Reply #36 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:07 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 10:04 PM

It's still the same- I quoted the relevant version from the pricing page above.

Oops. I'm not sure how I missed that.

Jibz · « **Reply #37 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:13 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 09:35 PM

Right... but I bought a two machine license.

Ah, so it's a bit like Windows, which you can install on up to five machines? (assuming you buy five licenses of course)

40hz · « **Reply #38 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:16 PM »

Quote from: JonPotter on March 05, 2014, 08:14 PM

We aren't really upset or anything, but please look at it from our point of view - we get an email from DonationCoder saying "hey, can we have a discount please!", so we come to DonationCoder to see what people are saying, and find a thread where mostly what they're saying is what horribly nasty thieves we are.

With all due respect, when I look at the entire thread, there was one person who took issue with the upgrade window (as he understood it), one person agreeing that (if that were in fact true) it left a bad taste, and a few others commenting it seemed a somewhat expensive upgrade.

I'd hardly characterize that as anybody calling anyone a horribly nasty thief. Or that the thread was hostile or derogatory towards DO.

Apparently there are differences in individual perception. So be it. It happens.

So I'd like to suggest, going forward, thicker skins and softer words. And as Cliff Stoll so aptly suggested, many years ago, when online discussion forums were just starting to take off:

Lets:

1) Try not to offend.

2) Try not to be so easily offended.

[attach]

wraith808 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:37 PM »

Quote from: Jibz on March 05, 2014, 10:13 PM

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 09:35 PM
Right... but I bought a two machine license.

Ah, so it's a bit like Windows, which you can install on up to five machines? (assuming you buy five licenses of course)

No. If you read the post above, you see that for my two licenses, I get three machines. So not quite.

wraith808 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 05, 2014, 10:40 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on March 05, 2014, 10:16 PM

Quote from: JonPotter on March 05, 2014, 08:14 PM
We aren't really upset or anything, but please look at it from our point of view - we get an email from DonationCoder saying "hey, can we have a discount please!", so we come to DonationCoder to see what people are saying, and find a thread where mostly what they're saying is what horribly nasty thieves we are.

With all due respect, when I look at the entire thread, there was one person who took issue with the upgrade window (as he understood it), one person agreeing that (if that were in fact true) it left a bad taste, and a few others commenting it seemed a somewhat expensive upgrade.

I'd hardly characterize that as anybody calling anyone a horribly nasty thief. Or that the thread was hostile or derogatory towards DO.

Apparently there are differences in individual perception. So be it. It happens.

So I'd like to suggest, going forward, thicker skins and softer words. And as Cliff Stoll so aptly suggested, many years ago, when online discussion forums were just starting to take off:

Lets:

1) Try not to offend.

2) Try not to be so easily offended.
(see attachment in previous post) Pax!

Some of the posts that he was referring to have been since edited. There was a bit of inflammatory phrasing. Which sort of falls under the try not to offend portion. And was all that I was asking for- a stance where we can state our opinions without offending. But apparently that was taken wrong, and people were offended by the suggestion.

* wraith808 shrugs

40hz · « **Reply #41 on:** March 05, 2014, 11:14 PM »

@Wraith- Just can't win can ya?

:

Try to take comfort in the fact that at least you tried. Like you always do, I might add.

Onward!

tomos · « **Reply #42 on:** March 05, 2014, 11:31 PM »

In fairness, I was the one to spark the controversy with my dodgy (but insistent) memory, and my loose tongue ;-)
I wrote this below earlier, but JonPotter got in ahead of me so I left it. I'll chance posting it now, slightly modified:

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 07:20 PM

It's not about payola. It's about realizing that one hasty word can make those conversations a lot more difficult, so we need to be cautious about realizing that there are definitely ramifications about saying things that may or may not be true. And it's not about being bought and paid for- we still tell the truth.

yes, this it it for me -
summed up by "It's about realizing that one hasty word can make those conversations a lot more difficult".
Just like in real life - and that's the thing it's easy to forget when you get in a rant about something online, this is real life too

And that's why I apologised straight away - not just that I hadn't checked the details - but that I realised I had said it in such an obnoxious way that it was pretty unreasonable, and understandable if it got a knee-jerk response.

And FWIW katykaty sums up my attitude to Dopus:

Quote from: katykaty on March 05, 2014, 07:21 PM

But then again, it's DO. Got to have DO. Can't not have DO

I'll leave it at that.

wraith808 · « **Reply #43 on:** March 05, 2014, 11:42 PM »

Quote from: tomos on March 05, 2014, 11:31 PM

And that's why I apologised straight away - not just that I hadn't checked the details - but that I realised I had said it in such an obnoxious way that it was pretty unreasonable, and understandable if it got a knee-jerk response.

I just want to say also Tomos, thanks for that. It's not about doing things or offending or making mistakes- we all do that. It's what happens after that's important. And I appreciate that.

Innuendo · « **Reply #44 on:** March 06, 2014, 02:05 AM »

I just want to clarify that I was not advocating that people should have free reign to insult or ridicule software developers. I'm merely of the mind that if something happens we don't like, we're allowed to voice a criticism without someone running into the room yelling, "Shhh..you'll upset the developers," with much arm-waving.

For the record, I can understand both sides of the "upgrade discount did not last in perpetuity" discussion, but I don't think an upgrade discount getting smaller after two years is unreasonable at all.

Full disclosure: I am a Directory Opus user & I bought the v11 upgrade before I even posted the OP. I also will disclose that I received the extra beta-tester discount as well for which I'm very thankful.

Yes, Directory Opus is not the least expensive program out there, but the author releases a major version every three years, not every year like most software authors. Divide that upgrade cost by three and it's not unreasonable at all, IMHO, especially for a program I use every single day.

As for the features added, it's true that there are no 'killer' features added, but I think it's a lot of nice additions that improve the experience as a whole. Besides, file managers are such an old genre of application that I don't think there are going to be too many more 'killer' features that lie undiscovered. While we're discussing new features, it's probably a good time to point out that the author doesn't hold back new features till a new major version hits. He keeps rolling out new features as fast as he can implement them regardless of whether or not it is a minor or major update. Nothing may grab you now, but something in v11.1 or v11.2 probably will.

You may as well upgrade now. You know you'll succumb sooner or later.

myarmor · « **Reply #45 on:** March 06, 2014, 06:22 AM »

Quote from: Innuendo on March 06, 2014, 02:05 AM

As for the features added, it's true that there are no 'killer' features added, but I think it's a lot of nice additions that improve the experience as a whole.

Well, maybe not 'killer' features, but I really appreciate that now you can use jscript/vbscript/whatever for more than
renaming (without "abusing" rename scripting). It also exposes many parts to those hosts (which it didn't in earlier versions).

The file display bar was also nice. No need for a border + location bar, now they're the same, and can be customized just like any toolbar.

michaelkenward · « **Reply #46 on:** March 06, 2014, 10:11 AM »

Quote from: Josh on March 04, 2014, 04:48 PM

That said, the typical period of upgrades between major revisions in the software industry is within the last year.

You need to compare like with like. The one year of updates you refer to usually applies to software that comes with an update every year or so, often minor "utilities", so you end up paying for a new version after about a year. In effect, this is subscriptionware.

In the case of Opus, you can wait three or four years for an update. So if you buy today at the upgrade price you will end up paying less per year than you will for those annually updated packages.

And in the three or so years of an Opus version you will also receive substantial incremental updates for nothing. One of the programs I buy operates on an annual cycle with upgrades every 15 months or so, long enough to push you out of the free upgrade period, with new "major versions" offering tiny changes of the sort that come along all the time with Opus.

Other software is moving firmly towards being rentware. For example, it was only when users screamed loudly that Mailwasher relented on its annual fee regime and sold a "lifetime" licence. (A lot of customers thought they already had that in the previous version.)

If you look at other software that releases on the same sort of cycle as Opus, Microsoft Office for example, or anything from Nuance you won't even get a discount for the upgrade.

I am open to persuasion, though. Just as I have given examples of software that does not fit into your criterion, I can add more, perhaps you can point us to software that does offer free updates to "major revisions", not just cosmetic tweaks, within one year.

michaelkenward · « **Reply #47 on:** March 06, 2014, 10:31 AM »

Quote from: wraith808 on March 05, 2014, 10:37 PM

No. If you read the post above, you see that for my two licenses, I get three machines. So not quite.

That's the two PCs and a laptop deal. (The single licence is one PC and a laptop.) The upgrade price for "ordinary" customers on that deal is AUS$74. I paid AUS$71 for the previous version on 30th April 2011. So it works out at about AUS$8 per PC per year. My how extortionate!

PS I bought the upgrade but haven't installed it. Grappling with Opus always makes my head hurt. Powerful, yes, but that very power can make it hard for some of us to get our heads round all the options.

dr_andus · « **Reply #48 on:** March 06, 2014, 10:41 AM »

Quote from: myarmor on March 06, 2014, 06:22 AM

Quote from: Innuendo on March 06, 2014, 02:05 AM
As for the features added, it's true that there are no 'killer' features added, but I think it's a lot of nice additions that improve the experience as a whole.
Well, maybe not 'killer' features, but I really appreciate that now you can use jscript/vbscript/whatever for more than
renaming (without "abusing" rename scripting). It also exposes many parts to those hosts (which it didn't in earlier versions).

The file display bar was also nice. No need for a border + location bar, now they're the same, and can be customized just like any toolbar.

Maybe one thing for the developers to take away from this discussion is that the benefits of this upgrade may not have been sufficiently articulated for the different types of users out there. I have looked at the new features a few times but the way they have been presented made it difficult for me to evaluate the economic value and utility of this upgrade.

E.g., if there are no "killer features," or at least some major new improvements, what justifies this as v. 11, rather than just v. 10 point something, for the different types of users (segments that Dopus serves)? If I was into scripting, maybe I'd get excited, but since I don't know how to do that, what else justifies the upgrade? What specifically makes the "nice additions" worth AUD50?

I'm just genuinely trying to make an economic calculation for myself, and I haven't been able to find sufficient articulation of the benefits to be able to make that calculation. BTW, I own two v. 10 PRO licenses at the moment and using Dopus on 3 machines (2 PCs, 1 netbook).

michaelkenward · « **Reply #49 on:** March 06, 2014, 10:49 AM »

Just in case anyone is wondering, AUS$74 is about £40, US$67 or €49.