problem resizing caption box / object

[cathie28]

I've used SC a good while now (not on daily / commercial basis) but there are still problems I have that keep me from donating.  Either lack of understanding (not from lack of reading help file), bugs, odd ways SC does things that aren't intuitive - really dunno.  Except some things don't seem to work like most would expect.  I won't put all my questions in one post.

Adding / Resizing caption box.  If there's a way to resize caption box, once typed in text & hit OK - only to find the text is too large / long & doesn't fit in allowed space, I can't find it.  Yes, I can drag the caption box a bit - downward - but then text in it tends to overlap / cover the screenshot.  I've not found a way to resize caption box up or horizontally.  It will show the double headed arrow on top margin of caption box, but won't allow actually dragging it up.
Depending on length of screen shot, area in a caption box is VERY limited.

By some strange repetition of adding caption boxes, one after another, it enlarges the text area, but the result is a bit strange.  Sometimes it works - some not, but that's a long way around.

Another thing I haven't gotten to work - at all - is expanding the canvas.  The help file has 1 or 2 lines & makes it sound simple.  I've never found how to work it, clicking that option before trying to add a new object or after or any other time.
Not sure what "expanded canvas" should look like, even if was successful.  I sort of expected to see some change in the background, where the canvas was expanded (if I ever did it right).  I see no visible change after clicking Expand Canvas.

Thanks.

[tomos]

hi cathie28,
I find editing unintuitive:
see the top icon in the screenshot below (it's of the lower part of the toolbar on the right-side of the window).
NOTE that sometimes it has a red 'O' overlaid on the arrow, sometimes not (I'm not sure what the difference is). That button will get you into edit mode - in edit mode I can edit text, etc. (double-click) and resize a text box in all directions (single-click, then drag corners).

[attachthumb=#]

[tomos]

I've never used resize canvas before.
I found it fine (but I am used to dialogues like this from image editors).

The dialogue (Edit>Resize / Ctrl+G)
Resize was already selected here, I changed the background colour and added '15' (pixels I guess) on all sides:

[attachimg=#]

and the result:

[attachimg=#]

[cathie28]

Thanks Tomos - I see now the expand canvas ONLY works if you select an object 1st, then click expand canvas.
But what you show is "resizing", not expand canvas.  Resizing most objects works OK for me.

I asked about Adding / Resizing caption box, not resizing text box.  Caption boxes don't work the same for me as other objects (text box, etc.).
Once a CAPTION (not text box) is added, w/ option "add border for caption only" & check caption location: Top, it places what seems to be a fairly set size box, no matter how much text you type before actually adding caption to the screenshot.  Those CAPTION boxes are what I find nearly impossible to resize, except dragging the lower border DOWN, covering the screenshot.  

That also results in the caption text covering part of screenshot & text not having the (say, white) background of the caption box, behind the text - that you have dragged downward.

Expand Canvas & Caption Text boxes:  I don't see it working the same as when using expand canvas for other objects, like text boxes.  Yes, Help says can use "\n" to separate lines when 1st typing text for caption.  But often, can't tell how long a line of text will be - above the screenshot - until actually add caption to the screen.  Then, no option to increase HEIGHT of caption box.
[attach]

[tomos]

I asked about Adding / Resizing caption box, not resizing text box.

Sorry,
the devil is in the details as they say, and I missed that one !
And I resized the canvas instead of 'expand canvas'

I think mouser is needed for the problems you're encountering.

[cathie28]

User's log: Stardate 20130825.12.N.R.D.  Update of request to SSC Command to revamp "Add a Caption" feature.

Adding initial Caption Text w/o wrap ability, at time text is added is very inconvenient & "outdated," compared to most ALL capture / image editing prgms.  Adding captions & process of having to resize canvas AFTER entering text, in order to expand caption box is cumbersome & time consuming.

* Caption box function needs overhaul to be on par w/ most prgms' caption features - even ones as old as FastStone 5.3 (last free ver.).

* Caption box should automatically resize up / down (depending on chosen placement), using wrap, AS text is entered (as most others do).

* Should be option ON the caption entry GUI to change font name / size / color & simple formatting (bold, italics...) as other apps behave, NOT force changing size & formatting from controls OUTSIDE of caption entry GUI.

* Not force a canvas resize, then expanding caption box, then change font size (if desired).  THAT is hit or miss, guessing how much to expand canvas, to fit caption at given font size - not expanding canvas too much / little to fit caption. 

Often requiring 2nd canvas resize, or initially resizing WAY too much, then going thru cropping process to rid extra space.  All more time consuming than most any prgm w/ caption feature.

cathie28 out.

[dvally]

Hi cathie28, sounds like you really don't like using SSC. There are other choices, as you mentioned. Some are free and some are paid. I actually bought Snagit from Techsmith, however I find myself using SSC as my default capturing application instead of Snagit. SSC is the one set to start with Windows. On rare occasions, I will use Snagit to capture something I have issues with in SSC. I liked SSC so much that I made a donation to the site! I suppose I could complain about the issues in SSC that cause me to use Snagit occasionally, but I just find a way around them either with another tool or Snagit. It's great to have choices!

I think that the programmer's who provide their expertise to make an application as complicated and useful as SSC deserve our support, but that's just my opinion. I am not a programmer, but I think it would be a really hard task to create a program like SSC that does all of the things it does so well. I'm just wondering if you have any programming experience? Have you ever tried your hand at creating something like this? It appears too daunting for me to try, but I am really greatful for people like Mouser who have the fortitude to create a great program like this and then release it to the public.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, just wanted to say hello...

dvally

[cathie28]

dvally - thanks - I think there was some friendly banter in there, somewhere?

Fact:  A high % of apps - free or not - that take feature requests or bug reports, are often overflowing w/ them.  They don't hate the apps.

Why would it be any different for anyone - like you or Bill Gates to make suggestions or requests for SSC?  "don't mean we hatin' on SSC or Mouser." 
I never said SSC was terrible.  If one doesn't spend much time using an app, they're may not even notice what might be improved or changed. 

IMHO, like most apps - could use some tweakin'.  Don't mean a thing.  Why do the largest, most successful software devs continue to "improve" their GUIs?  They're already successful.
Millions make requests / suggestions for apps - constantly.  Most never get implemented.  If they do, may take yrs.  Everything changes.  The order of the universe.

SSC & some apps may look better / different in W-7, 8 than Vista - dunno.  Some people like gray toolbars w/ gray icons (or black w/ almost black ones).  Some people like purple cars & others - white.
Many others & I  favor icons that, in some cases, are not identical - or nearly so - for different functions.    Many like icons don't almost blend in w/ the background, like camouflage.  Just a thought:  wonder how that affects people w/ color blindness or other vision problems, that aren't related to "distance correction?"  Lots of flavors of vision problems.

Seems like yesterday that people in wheel chairs might be SOL getting in buildings.

On a diff note:  Today, in a school where my spouse taught just a yr ago, there was a fatal stabbing of 1 teen & critical injury of 3 others.  Unclear at this point if all / any were actual students (or just walked in) - but all were young.  For some pupils at some schools, almost like a prison training camp. 

cheers,

[dvally]

Hello cathie28,

"I never said SSC was terrible.  If one doesn't spend much time using an app, they're may not even notice what might be improved or changed." 

This is true, apologies I didn't mean that the way it came across. I just noticed that you had a number of posts where things didn't seem to be working the way you expected. It sounded like you may have been a little frustrated.

My mistake...

I also sometimes get frustrated with some apps when they don't work the way I expect. I have also submitted a few "improvement" posts.  Typically though, I will try to find something else that works for me. Screenshot captor I guess meets "my" expectations as a really good screen capture tool.

You make many good points in your post, and you are correct in your description of the many ways people see things differently. That's why programming seems such a daunting task to me. It just seems like if I tried my hand at it, I would be able to make what I wanted but it wouldn't be what others consider what they wanted. How do you satisfy everyone's wants and needs and still keep all the functionality and simplicity? But that's just my mind wandering again!

I just wondered if you had programming experience.

I am saddened by your last note about the schools. My heart goes out to those parents who lost a child. It's tragic that schools NEED to install metal detectors and other such methods to keep knives and guns out of schools. But it appears to be a necessity. 

Thanks for your reply!

dvally

[mouser]

NOTE that sometimes it has a red 'O' overlaid on the arrow, sometimes not (I'm not sure what the difference is).

it gets the 'O' as soon as you add any objects in the screenshot that can be edited.  that is, it alerts you when there are objects present on the file you are viewing.  it's a reminder to help remind you to press it to edit them.

[mouser]

Thanks Tomos - I see now the expand canvas ONLY works if you select an object 1st, then click expand canvas.
But what you show is "resizing", not expand canvas.  Resizing most objects works OK for me.

this is me being inconsistent in naming things.  the tool that tomos showed, labeled resize canvas, is EXPANDING the canvas.

You'll also find a new "Quick Expand Canvas" on the main edit menu.

Cathie when you say:

I see now the expand canvas ONLY works if you select an object 1st, then click expand canvas.

that sounds like you are talking about the menu item under the Object menu labeled "Expand canvas to fit objects" which is a function used specifically when your objects are outside the bounds of the images.

[mouser]

I can see the frustration of using the caption feature -- it's not really easy to resize the caption box once it is created, due to the nature of it -- it's basically creating a text box and resizing the canvas as a one time thing, not doing it dynamically as you adjust the caption.  I'll consider something more dynamic, though it wouldn't be trivial to implement so don't hold your breath.  It's possible that a specialty "modify caption size" menu item would be more feasible (though admittedly not ideal).

[cathie28]

It's often easier (as things are now) to use a text box, than the caption.  If not enough room on capture for desired text, expanding the canvas (some call that resizing), then adding text box is still (sometimes) easier than using caption.
*****************
EDIT 8/6/13_10:30 3:30 PM CDT (tough night!):  SSC's a great app & Mouser (& the Traps) - possibly 1 of greatest programmers of the 19th  21st cent.  Seriously, he's a nice guy.  

Using the pop up "..." box (need better name / icon?  ), it displays apparent line wrapping in that box?, but when add a caption, if a line's too long, at selected font size, it doesn't use line wrap (as the "ellipsis box" showed).  It reduces the selected font size to something tiny, so longest line fits on one line.  Not useful for a caption.

Most apps' captions auto resize caption box (height) to fit entered text @ selected size.  SSC don't doesn't.  (some capture apps don't have any caption function; or don't resize AFTER adding caption, which is OK, but do size the box according to text & font size).
 
If it's too much trouble to fix the caption feature, maybe modifications to text box, so it can (if want) function more like typical captions.  Dunno.  Just throwing out ideas.
Except for captions creating their own, new space, the 2 have many similarities.

Quick expand canvas is fine, except most times (I) don't need it on all 4 sides & the expansion size is set.  It'd be fine for fairly short text boxes / "captions," but rest of expansion is often unneeded to add text box.  I guess the quick expansion is more for ???

Screen shows "adjusted" font size, after entering a line too long for caption box.  Original font size selected was 20 (20 what?  Was ~ to 10 or 12 pt.).  Now illegible.
<u>2nd screen </u>shows 20 size Arial font selected.  Also, shows the very small font of caption GUI.  Looks worse than shot looks.  No way <u>I've found</u> to save the screens of *<b>any</b>* app's poor quality GUIs, so when posted, look as poor as actual GUI.  Dunno. 

With great respect for dvally & his book sized magnifying reader  , no one could read the down sized font on the caption; font size on add caption UI pretty small, for many to - easily - read.

[cmpm]

Have you tried these different options for captions yet?

[mouser]

Please note that the caption IS a text memo box -- it is a text box which is automatically placed in a certain position, and canvas automatically expanded to give a place for it.  After that though, it's a standard text memo box.

[cathie28]

Have you tried these different options for captions yet?

Thanks very much for pointing it out.  'Splains a lot.    However, that's one issue - those options for caption behavior should be on the caption entry UI, where can be seen & quickly changed - not have open options, each time want to change captions prefs.  "Out of sight, out of mind."

No, I haven't.  Partly because of trouble reading the very small, crowded text on some SSC options UIs (as mentioned earlier). BUT here...
mostly because, in several hundred apps, never seen default behavior that might reduce text, any where, to unreadable size.  Most probably wouldn't guess it was an option.  

[/u]"Reduce font size to fit on one line," maybe shouldn't be default.  And / Or have a limit how small it can go.  It WOULD be useful for spy communications.  

The captions default, single line, text entry field & instructions are difficult to see / use (likely for many others).  Like writing on a postage stamp.  The pop up box probably should be default entry method, showing actual text size.  Almost no apps behave as SSC for captions or similar features, for a reason.

caption... it's a standard text memo box.

IMO, it's anything but standard.  I can't remember any app of any type, that similar function works like SSC.

IMHO, there are some "different than any other app" behaviors like this, that don't make it easier or intuitive.  Just different.  I'd never guess it was intentional, default behavior.   (I don't hate SSC).

I captured a screen that matches actual GUI poor quality for caption entry typed & instructions text, but upload process darkens & actually increases apparent size some.  Dunno.  Reduce the quality of this screen by ~ 40% & size by ~ 25% & that's what I see in the GUI.

[cmpm]

So now that you know how to fix the caption box to your specifications, can we move on?, to please show me what you want a "standard text memo box" to look like.

[cathie28]

Don't get "snippy" (get it?  snippy... snipping... screen capture).  Ah, forget it.
Trying to provide positive criticism.

1) Increase height should be default behavior - if caption text line is too long.  Probably >80% prefer it.

2) Put options specific to captions formatting, on the captions UI, not in prefs.
If have options for captions like,  "Reduce font size [possibly to [b]0.5 pt[/b]]" or "Nothing", put them on Captions UI - where easily accessible. 

3) Have a standard pop up text entry box w/ the basic, available formatting tools, at top of the text entry box.  Similar to any other apps'.    Never seen a captions "entry box or UI" like SSC's.  But don't hate SSC.  I love's me some SSC.    The one line entry field, w/ tiny font, no line wrap, no idea of how many characters will fit over the width of current image - isn't useful. 

4) Line returns (before text reached end of actual caption box) AND allow paragraphs / blank lines, just as  typing in SSC text boxes allows.
** Makes more sense to add them when composing, so caption height will be increased.  That's how most caption boxes work.

  The pop up "ellipsis" caption text entry box has an "oddity."  I realize this is how someone coded it, but "outdated."
** Hitting Enter, ends editing & adds caption to image.  It should just cause line return, as typing in an SSC text box does.

Now, using Shift + Enter in pop up caption box, allows line returns & adding blank line, but then blank lines aren't displayed, in caption.  And no editing caption box.  You CAN edit text in a caption; add blank lines - IF room allows - often doesn't. 

5) Basically, make like SSC's text entry box, but really needs formatting tools *easily available* - somewhere near (as most apps w/ captions do).  Same general behavior as every other app w/ caption or text box entry, of any kind.  No need for "uniqueness" here. 

6) Increase font size on Add Caption UI (& all others).  Even if wanted to use the available commands / fields, can't read them.
** Add Caption UI has many good options - it's not like its UI / font HAS to be so small.  The UI is resizable / draggable - but font remains tiny.  Make font a bit bigger & open a bigger GUI screen, to begin with.

Whether Mr. M wants to do any of this - ever, is his business, but the way captions works now is far behind many SSC's features & clumsy compared to some other apps.  I'd think captions would be one of most used features.  Maybe not.  I use them frequently, so usually use something that makes them very easy - like FastStone 5.3 (ooold free ver).

[cmpm]

yeah, i got it

[cmpm]

cathie28,
it's a caption, or if you prefer, a memo, not a word processor

memo = A memorandum (abbrev.: memo) was from the Latin verbal phrase memorandum est, the gerundive form of the verb memoro, "to mention, call to mind, recount, relate", which means "It must be remembered (that)...". It is therefore a note, document or other communication that helps the memory by recording events or observations on a topic.

caption = Photo captions, also known as cutlines, are a few lines of text used to explain or elaborate on published photographs.

[cathie28]

Thanks for your input.  You asked, I replied.  No disrespect.
If others  like SSC caption as is or don't use it, great.    My suggestions are on need for longer descriptions / instructions AND space limits for text boxes, ON images. 
Sometimes need longer descriptions - somewhere.

If some believe captions should only be a few words, OK. Not suggesting anything new that some other apps don't do.

Here's what I'll do, for SSC caption > 1 line (until / if SSC caption is tweaked). 
1. Capture (or crop) image taller than needed. 
2. Then add text box in unneeded area
3. Then crop to final area ("cut" function would be great for that).  That'll work...
Much easier to use another app w/ better designed caption, which is why I'm suggesting improvements.  If happy w/ current electricity provider, please ignore this offer. 

Two line captions w/ blank line are common - on anything.  SSC pop up caption box fails on that (I think).  It's more difficult for some to read text in the 1 line caption field.  Sorry.  In SSC caption pop up, text is much larger.
Caption's aren't word processors.  But, look at other apps' captions.

Cheers,

[mouser]

You are quite right that the caption dialog should allow multiple lines, i will fix.

[cathie28]

Thank you very much.  Many that use the feature (in that way) will appreciate it.

My intent is NEVER to say SSC isn't an overall good app or to insult / inflame anyone.  But NO app, anywhere, is perfect.  That's why they're all constantly "improving" - at least changing.

Sometimes, seems certain apps' "improvements" are a step back.    Sometimes, devs are working w/in limitations - no fault of their own.