Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins? (Read 854,854 times)

Renegade · « **Reply #675 on:** December 14, 2014, 11:44 PM »

Quote from: Stoic Joker on December 14, 2014, 02:59 PM

Quote from: Renegade on December 13, 2014, 11:16 PM
The US has 0.34% cash to debt (near zero liquidity), which indicates that they have a lot of market power.

"Zero Liquidity" (e.g. no cash) equates to "Market Power" how exactly?? If you're broke, you're supposed to stop buying shit ... Unless you're intention is to star in one of the many blond jokes that end with "But I still have checks left?!?"..

I'm making a bit of a jump there. Strictly speaking, that applies to banks & financial institutions. But, governments aren't a far jump.

For banks, those with greater market power keep investments in less liquid assets, and not in cash. Governments (with central banks) issue currency and interest rates, and have a basic monopoly power, although they still need to cooperate with other market actors.

Keeping cash (liquid assets) is something actors with less market power do as they are forced to respond to market forces, instead of being able to influence the market in the way that stronger actors (market makers) can.

It has to do with risk mitigation. With greater market power, there's less risk, and so less cash can be kept on hand.

That the US as so little cash would seem to point to them being very confident and having little concern for what they would presumably perceive as little to no risk. Or it could be colossal stupidity.

Oil has dipped under $60.

Quote from: Stoic Joker on December 14, 2014, 02:59 PM

Quote from: Renegade on December 13, 2014, 11:16 PM
Keep in mind that oil prices dipping like this could be a signal for a crash.

Highly doubtful...unless it being intentionally orchestrated. The ~~Oil~~ Err... "Energy Companies" are simply running out of bullshit excuses for keeping the prices jacked up to crippling rates. Last I heard the US is producing 80+% on its own oil so the middle east boogie man (blame game) shenanigans don't fly anymore. They've fracking well known (pun intended) for years they could drop the price to a reasonable level and still rake in mountains of cash per minute - just like they still are right now - without vimpirically draining the economy for fun and profit Ferengi style.

This kind of crap is precisely why these elitist market ghouls need to be publically executed (by the public) as a warning to others.

You might find this interesting:

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/guess-happened-last-time-price-oil-crashed-like

Quote

There has only been one other time in history when the price of oil has crashed by more than 40 dollars in less than 6 months. The last time this happened was during the second half of 2008, and the beginning of that oil price crash preceded the great financial collapse that happened later that year by several months. Well, now it is happening again, but this time the stakes are even higher. When the price of oil falls dramatically, that is a sign that economic activity is slowing down. It can also have a tremendously destabilizing affect on financial markets. As you will read about below, energy companies now account for approximately 20 percent of the junk bond market. And a junk bond implosion is usually a signal that a major stock market crash is on the way. So if you are looking for a “canary in the coal mine”, keep your eye on the performance of energy junk bonds. If they begin to collapse, that is a sign that all hell is about to break loose on Wall Street.

More anaylsis at the link. He's far from alone in his assessments.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/15-big-oil-sell-signals-that-warn-of-a-50-stock-crash-2014-10-24

Quote

15 Big Oil sell signals that warn of a 50% stock crash

Quote from: Stoic Joker on December 14, 2014, 02:59 PM

Highly doubtful...unless it being intentionally orchestrated.

Well, GATA was proven right about the PM markets being manipulated. We know about the LIBOR manipulations. Why should this be any different?

A quick look at inflation, CPI, and unemployment figures shows that they're all rigged. Badly.

Martin Armstrong of Armstrong Economics has predicted another crisis for around October 2015, and he's been right far too often before.

But, who knows? Points of interest, and things to watch for.

FWIW - The US has been capping oil wells for years now, so they have a lot of oil ready to tap at any time.

What was that Chinese proverb about "interesting times"?

Renegade · « **Reply #676 on:** December 17, 2014, 11:43 AM »

This is a great little story at the Internet Archive:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2phsdh/my_boss_brewster_kahle_at_the_internet_archive/

Quote

My boss (Brewster Kahle), who runs the Internet Archive (archive.org, Wayback) just sent this to employees. I figure it had interest in the bitcoin world that we have someone matching bitcoin contributions to give end-of-year bonuses, which means all the employees are getting on the bitcoin wagon. I asked for permission to reprint the letter, which is below (minus a bitcoin how-to he included at the bottom).

Archive Staff,

To both thank the staff of the Internet Archive for a solid year of building towards Universal Access to All Knowledge, and to support Bitcoin by keeping bitcoins in circulation, the Internet Archive will gift bitcoins at the end of this year to participating Internet Archive employees. The bitcoins for this program are donated by an anonymous donor that is matching the December bitcoin donations from our supporters.

The Bitcoins donated via https://archive.org/donate/bitcoin.php by our supporters will go to servers and other infrastructure, but a generous match is specifically to support end-of-year gifts of bitcoins to employees that are likely to spend the bitcoin in interesting ways. We also hope that this match will encourage more people to donate Bitcoin to the Internet Archive.

To do this, we will divide the number of Bitcoins donated in December among the full time Internet Archive employees that get their own bitcoin wallets (like an account), and will try to use the bitcoins.

Currently, people have donated about 11BTC to the Internet Archive since our fundraising started, which, at current price and if every staff member participated, it would be about $25. This is likely to be higher as more donations come in and not everyone will participate. We will cap this at $1k per employee if things go too far one way or another.

What can you do with your year-end Bitcoin gift? (see below for links) * Buy Sushi: I do almost every week on Clement Street-- really great. * Buy Cupcakes, buy groceries on Haight Street * Buy things at online stores * Donate to the Internet Archive, EFF, Wikipedia, etc. * Exchange for cash * Tip other people via twitter and reddit (I used changetip.com to do this via twitter, which is fun)

Who can help you figure out bitcoin? There is an internal group skype chat "bitcoin players" that has been helpful. June can add you if you would like.

Jacques can also help in explaining the program. Please bear with him/us, since I just sprang this on him on Friday.

-brewster

40hz · « **Reply #677 on:** December 17, 2014, 12:41 PM »

@Ren - I think enough people want it to work right now that the single biggest threat is some people in the Bitcoin community doing something completely jive to torpedo it. I remember the heady early days of the libertarian party when everybody thought this was finally the big break with the past we'd all been waiting for. Surprise! Surprise!

All it takes is one or two jerks to poison the well. I already see that happening over in the FOSS world where the stakes are perhaps even higher.

I don't know if the sudden reduction in serious governmental push-back is a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe those that would see Bitcoin gone are banking on the "fall from grace" so many new social movements too regularly suffer. If so, the odds are certainly in their favor.

Good luck Bitcoin.

Renegade · « **Reply #678 on:** December 17, 2014, 02:17 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on December 17, 2014, 12:41 PM

@Ren - I think enough people want it to work right now that the single biggest threat is some people in the Bitcoin community doing something completely jive to torpedo it. I remember the heady early days of the libertarian party when everybody thought this was finally the big break with the past we'd all been waiting for. Surprise! Surprise!

All it takes is one or two jerks to poison the well. I already see that happening over in the FOSS world where the stakes are perhaps even higher.

I don't know if the sudden reduction in serious governmental push-back is a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe those that would see Bitcoin gone are banking on the "fall from grace" so many new social movements too regularly suffer. If so, the odds are certainly in their favor.

Good luck Bitcoin.

Dammit... I'm into my second bottle (750 ml) of ginger ale here that I brewed with Lalvin EC-1118...

But you raise really good points, and I'll be damned if I'll let a bit of intoxication fart with a response~!

I'm not going to address any libertarian stuff though. I like this thread in the Living Room.

(I do sympathise with libertarians though.)

But dammit, I just can't resist this!

https://www.facebook.com/GlennBeck/posts/10152913406058188

Glenn Beck put out a post:

Quote

Who is your pick for Person of the Year? Post your pick in the comments. We'll reveal the winner tomorrow.

I know a lot of people here will hate Glenn Beck... but here's the kicker... People are SCREAMING for Larken Rose!!!

If Glenn interviews Larken, Larken will tear Glenn a new asshole. In his forehead. With a voluntaryist chainsaw. Big "V" shape there. Insert more explicit imagery here.

If you hate Glenn Beck, you'll want to see that interview, if it happens. (I kind of doubt it will though as Glenn isn't in Larken's league -- few are.)

But I think you're wrong about the comparison there. A few jerks can't spoil Bitcoin because it's decentralised, and at any time the miners can tell the Bitcoin development team to go f**k themselves.

It would take a LOT of assholes~!

There's a balance in Bitcoin that doesn't exist in other systems. You can create any code you want for Bitcoin and run it. But that doesn't mean that anyone else will do the same. One or two assholes can't poison the pie here. It takes a massive number of assholes to do it.

@SeraphimLabs should chime in. He's up on the topic, and can probably offer a different perspective.

On a personal note, I was talking with my sister on video chat tonight. She was recanting the friggin' nightmares she had to go through simply to pay for her airplane ticket to get here for Christmas.

Hint: NONE of her problems would be problems with Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is just a better way to pay people. If you've not used it, you won't understand just how much easier it is.

Bitcoin allows ANYONE to accept payments from ANYONE from ANYWHERE. This is some majorly badass wicked cool stuff! You just CANNOT do that through traditional payment systems.

40hz · « **Reply #679 on:** December 17, 2014, 04:12 PM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 17, 2014, 02:17 PM

Dammit... I'm into my second bottle (750 ml) of ginger ale here that I brewed with Lalvin EC-1118...

But you raise really good points, and I'll be damned if I'll let a bit of intoxication fart with a response~!

But perhaps you should? Just sayin'

Quote from: Renegade on December 17, 2014, 02:17 PM

But I think you're wrong about the comparison there. A few jerks can't spoil Bitcoin because it's decentralised, and at any time the miners can tell the Bitcoin development team to go f**k themselves.

It would take a LOT of assholes~!

There's a balance in Bitcoin that doesn't exist in other systems. You can create any code you want for Bitcoin and run it. But that doesn't mean that anyone else will do the same. One or two assholes can't poison the pie here. It takes a massive number of assholes to do it.

A medium of exchange is only as good as the general public's and the business community's belief and trust in it is. Otherwise, Bitcoins are nothing but faux-collectibles. Their relative rarity is manufactured. No different than pogs, or Beanie Baby dolls, or baseball cards - which may be "valuable" within a minor subset or two of enthusiasts - but are pretty much worthless anywhere else.

Right now I see a certain schizophrenia in the Bitcoin world. One part is attempting to establish Bitcoin as a "store of value" and a "medium of exchange." A fancy way of saying: Bitcoin is REAL MONEY! The other part seems to be saying: Bitcoin is sooo much more than that. It's a...it's a...Oh go screw yourself! You just don't get it!

And in this framework it definitely won't take much more than a jerk or two to derail it. Maybe not within the community of Bitcoin diehards who will be the last to ever admit a failure. They'll continue to man the bastions to defend it long after the rest of the world, having better things to do, gets on with their lives sans Bitcoin.

Truth is, Bitcoin is too much of an "in" thing for it's own good. And from many of the comments by Bitcoin enthusiasts, I think a large part of the Bitcoin world would rather it remain that way. A thing for "the cool kids" to play with. And as for the rest of you? Catch up as best you can - or better yet - KTFO! It's an elitist attitude that doesn't work in Bitcoin's favor if the goal, as espoused, is to make Bitcoin universal.

But maybe that's just me. I've generally found most Bitcoin enthusiasts to be pretty obnoxious about it once they start talking and let their guard down. They've "bought their 'cool'" as George Sanger so beautifully phrased it. Fairly typical behavior for a clique. And Bitcoin is still very much a clique.

Either way, Bitcoin will have its moment on the stage. Whether or not it turns out to be " full of sound and fury, signifying nothing" is entirely up to those involved.

I wish them the best.

SeraphimLabs · « **Reply #680 on:** December 17, 2014, 06:01 PM »

That clear-cut divide in bitcoin's community is quite obvious too, and it extends all the way down to the altcoins where new features are born. Some people see the future, and are working hard to keep crypto honest and enjoyable so that it can be for anyone. Other people are strictly business- and they are not afraid of fraud and criminal acts to get what they want.

I'm on the side of it where I see what could become one of the biggest economical overhauls since Fiat currency was invented. Bitcoin is a solution to many problems that exist in existing currency infrastructure. But it introduces complications of its own, not all of which are easily solved.

Right now the biggest thing hindering bitcoin is the fact that its greatest selling point is also its own worst enemy - its decentralized architecture. There is a sort of fundamental human need to blame somebody else when things go wrong. With Fiat currency, you can blame the banks or blame the government, or invent some imaginary conspiracy group to blame when the usual suspects don't fit the bill.

The lack of a central authority in bitcoin means that if it implodes there is nobody to blame but the userbase in general for it. That's a downright scary thought to a lot of people on almost every level of thought. The fact that they might have to actually be responsible for their own actions, because if they mess up they can't blame someone else to cover it up. And with the bitcoin blockchain being a public record of all transactions, your mistake is not only your own fault but everyone can see that you made that mistake and it will never be forgotten.

That makes things really scary for people who only know the basic concepts of bitcoin.

Then you get advertising like a recent Master Card campaign calling out 'trust issues' with bitcoin, even though I would gladly put more faith in the algorithms and mass-validation system bitcoin utilizes than the proprietary, exploitable, and politically corrupt system in use by Mastercard and the other major processors. But to someone not familiar enough with bitcoin to laugh at such claims, this is a very scary idea and effectively a FUD campaign to discourage people from using bitcoin.

I think 2015 is going to be very exciting for Crypto, but right now my long positions in bitcoin are all in the red due to the recent price drop. Kinda not amused.

40hz · « **Reply #681 on:** December 17, 2014, 06:50 PM »

Quote from: SeraphimLabs on December 17, 2014, 06:01 PM

That makes things really scary for people who only know the basic concepts of bitcoin.

And I would guess that those people represent somewhere north of 85% of all the people who might be using Botcoin currently - and possibly 99% of those who would be using it if (or once) it went mainstream.

Simple fact is most people are not sufficiently up on data signal security and cryptographic methodologies to have a considered opinion - let alone be able to adequately evaluate somebody else's opinion of it.

In the end, it all comes down to a matter of trust for most people. Whom do you trust about this?

Or, if that's too much to ask for, to SeraphimLabs earlier point: Who will be blamed??? Who will be held to account if it ever goes sideways big time? For the average Bitcoin user (who has little hope of understanding much of this technology) the response is a resounding: "Not I!"

With a decoupled currency system such as we now have, the collapse of one currency system does not necessarily bring down all currencies. Governments worldwide will step in quickly to shore up the global monetary system until the problem gets resolved. But with a distributed, "non-fixable responsibility" system that is only protected by encryption and some clever algorithms, and no governmental sanction to date, it is very possible a systemic breech or failure could bring the entire system down in flames. And lacking government sanction, it's doubtful many governments would intervene should it ever happen. Many might even conveniently argue a lack of legal jurisdiction because Bitcoin is not a 'recognized' or 'registered' investment vehicle, commercial paper, or currency. A case could be made for intervention on the grounds of wire fraud perhaps. But that would be about as good as it gets. And from my experience with government agencies, their feeling about something like Bitcoin will probably be: "You wanted to operate independent of government? OMF-YOYO!"

Now some may well believe Bitcoin can't be compromised due to the programming cleverness behind it. But up until recently we believed Tor was extremely secure, digital certificates were an excellent safeguard, and random numbers really were random. Complex engraved artwork and special paper was considered a foolproof check against counterfeiting until photo offset printing came along and counterfeiters discovered they could bleach single denominated paper currency and reprint them as hundred dollar bills.

Whatever is made by human design can be undone by humans, given time and sufficient motivation.

And it will be interesting to see how crypto-currencies fare over the long run since there are sufficient humans and motivation on both sides of the equation.

Renegade · « **Reply #682 on:** December 18, 2014, 11:23 AM »

The frist 2 are NSFW, but very fun!

NSFW
Putin on Bitcoin

From that link, this video by (Famous Amos) Mr. iPad Chain:

NSFW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAfOCqgS8gs

And his first bitcoin, someone tipped him! AN ENTIRE BITCOIN!

SFW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUItLZO-eQ

wraith808 · « **Reply #683 on:** December 20, 2014, 04:41 PM »

Bitcoin hit with tax blow in Australia

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/19/bitcoin-hit-tax-blow-australia

40hz · « **Reply #684 on:** December 20, 2014, 05:14 PM »

^What is it with Australia (and New Zealand) lately? They went from being two of the coolest most laid-back countries in the world to being participants in the footrace race to see which so-called "Western Democracy" can be the first to fully embrace totalitarianism. So sad.

wraith808 · « **Reply #685 on:** December 20, 2014, 10:38 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on December 20, 2014, 05:14 PM

^What is it with Australia (and New Zealand) lately? They went from being two of the coolest most laid-back countries in the world to being participants in the footrace race to see which so-called "Western Democracy" can be the first to fully embrace totalitarianism. So sad.

What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!

It's sort of like the other day I made a joke about Librium... referring to the drug in Equilibrium, and it went right over someone's head... because life imitates art (there's a Librium that does pretty much what the one in the movie does). Everything turns on it's head... Stephen Colbert needed to move on from his usual because the world was going to stay this crazy and it become the status quo.

40hz · « **Reply #686 on:** December 21, 2014, 12:12 AM »

Quote from: wraith808 on December 20, 2014, 10:38 PM

What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!

@Wraith - I think you just completely lost me there...

wraith808 · « **Reply #687 on:** December 21, 2014, 03:50 AM »

Quote from: 40hz on December 21, 2014, 12:12 AM

Quote from: wraith808 on December 20, 2014, 10:38 PM
What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!

@Wraith - I think you just completely lost me there...

It's just that your statement sounded more closely aligned to a Ren statement

40hz · « **Reply #688 on:** December 21, 2014, 04:26 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on December 21, 2014, 03:50 AM

Quote from: 40hz on December 21, 2014, 12:12 AM
Quote from: wraith808 on December 20, 2014, 10:38 PM
What happened to my 40? I could always depend on 40 to be the rational one, balancing out the radical Renegade, and myself in the middle!

@Wraith - I think you just completely lost me there...

It's just that your statement sounded more closely aligned to a Ren statement

Oh! Well...that's understandable. Upon extremely rare occasions I do find myself in at least partial alignment with the Renegade. I think we generally agree when there's a problem somewhere. But we generally disagree in our interpretations of how and why said problem(s) came about. And we're almost always disagreeing about the best approach to deal with it.

[attach]

Renegade · « **Reply #689 on:** December 21, 2014, 11:52 PM »

At least we can have fun disagreeing!

And it was aliens!

40hz · « **Reply #690 on:** December 22, 2014, 01:03 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 21, 2014, 11:52 PM

At least we can have fun disagreeing!

This!

A worthy opponent is worth their weight in gold if you really do want to work through and clarify your position on something. It's fun. It's challenging. And it's absolutely essential if you want to avoid the trap of what philosopher William James called: "vicious abstractionism."

Quote

And it was aliens!

Y'know...lately, I'm beginning to suspect it just might be:

[attach]

4wd · « **Reply #691 on:** December 22, 2014, 02:18 AM »

I was thinking more:

Renegade:

40hz:

wraith808 · « **Reply #692 on:** December 22, 2014, 03:02 AM »

Quote from: 40hz on December 22, 2014, 01:03 AM

This! A worthy opponent is worth their weight in gold if you really do want to work through and clarify your position on something. It's fun. It's challenging. And it's absolutely essential if you want to avoid the trap of what philosopher William James called: "vicious abstractionism."

I haven't heard it put so eloquently. I enjoy the exercise... and don't expect to change anyone's position, or be called 'right' or a 'winner'.

Renegade · « **Reply #693 on:** December 27, 2014, 11:51 AM »

Quote from: 4wd on December 22, 2014, 02:18 AM

I was thinking more:

Renegade: (see attachment in previous post)
40hz: (see attachment in previous post)

Pfft~! Fools! I live in a Faraday house, have a Faraday car, and my entire wardrobe is 100% Faraday! Except my underwear... chaffing... And socks. But my shoes are still good to go!

Bitpay commercial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxknhTa8Zx8

4wd · « **Reply #694 on:** December 29, 2014, 03:42 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 27, 2014, 11:51 AM

Except my underwear... chaffing...

Now that's where you're doing it wrong, you should use your normal underwear but use graphite powder instead of talcum ... the benefits of a conductive shield with no chaffing.

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #695 on:** December 29, 2014, 07:20 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uA4KO2EEBU

Apparently The Bitcoin Bowl Is A Real Thing That’s Happening Right Now TechCrunch

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #696 on:** January 07, 2015, 08:55 PM »

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BitStamp's bitcoin breach results in loss of $5.4M

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #697 on:** January 07, 2015, 10:45 PM »

Quote

On Tuesday, the currency traded even lower at 285.67 per US dollar.

Um... more like $254 from what I was watching. I really don't know how much longer I can stay in at these rates ... As 'Sunny Optimism' isn't really my 'Strong Suite'..

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #698 on:** January 11, 2015, 10:22 PM »

Quote from: Arizona Hot on January 07, 2015, 08:55 PM

BitStamp's bitcoin breach results in loss of $5.4M

Bitcoin operator relaunches; hollers at Jimmy Fallon

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #699 on:** January 28, 2015, 04:06 AM »

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First U.S. bitcoin exchange opens for business