Author Topic: Linux is Not Windows (Read 36,871 times)

Edvard · « **Reply #25 on:** August 12, 2008, 06:25 PM »

40Hz: I'm sorry if I caused confusion. I didn't mean that your post or Zaine's in themselves was causing me concern. The point I was trying to make was a fusion of your comment that discussions about OS preference often goes the way of religious convictions and Zaine's comment on what can and can't be talked about on DC. Allen summed it up nicely but I'll put it this way:

IN OTHER WORDS... Let's "walk softly" so that OS discussions go no further into the flammable territory currently occupied by religious and political arguments, which are highly discouraged on the DC forum (and for darn good reason...).

Good-natured jabfests should be no cause for concern, nor lively discussions on technical merits (or lack thereof), but full-on flame wars are, and I have no stomach for innocent blood spilled on the shaky ground of personal opinion.

I have seen the kind of ire that App spoke of, and it is embarrassing to see it coming from fellow Linux enthusiasts who should be making better use of their time. I have also seen and felt the same from Windows enthusiasts and it feels no better.

*please deposit another 2 cents to continue this discussion* <click. Bzzz....>

40hz · « **Reply #26 on:** August 12, 2008, 10:53 PM »

This was recently posted on Linux.com.

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Portrait: Michelle Murrain lives the open source lifestyle
By Tina Gasperson on August 07, 2008 (9:00:00 PM)

Michelle Murrain is a great example of what the FOSS community is all about.

She's complicated: she calls herself a "scientist turned technologist turned theologian turned writer," all blended into one person. She's also an active supporter of and contributor to open source software projects. She's not a developer, however, and Murrain would really like to see more space for people like her, with different gifts to share, in the open source community.

http://www.linux.com/feature/143264

Twenty more people like her and Tux could rule the world!

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I have seen the kind of ire that App spoke of, and it is embarrassing to see it coming from fellow Linux enthusiasts who should be making better use of their time.

Very true. But there's hope. Take a look at LinuxChix.org to see what can be accomplished with a little less attitude. I think this group addresses may of the issues App raised earlier.

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About LinuxChix
Wed, 11 Apr 2007

LinuxChix is a community for women who like Linux, and for anyone who wants to support women in computing. We are an international group of Free Software users and developers, founded in 1999 with the aim of "supporting women in Linux." Founder Deb Richardson described it as an alternative to the "locker room atmosphere" found in some online technical forums and gave LinuxChix two core rules: "be polite" and "be helpful". LinuxChix is now many things to many people, but it remains primarily a group for supporting women in computing, specifically in Open Source/Free Software/Software Libre computing.

LinuxChix has been continually active for eight years and its forums have attracted over one thousand members worldwide. In addition, it has over fifteen active regional chapters.

Deb Richardson started LinuxChix because she was tired of seeing new users being browbeaten for asking "stupid" questions. She was tired of seeing people respond to perfectly valid questions with "RTFM", or "we're not a Linux help channel", and other such not-terribly-useful things. She wanted to attempt to create a more hospitable community in which people can discuss Linux, a community that encourages participation, that doesn't allow the quieter among us to be drowned out by the vocal minority. She also wanted to run a group that was aimed at women.

http://www.linuxchix.org/

Bookmark this website fellow Nixers - and learn!

40hz · « **Reply #27 on:** August 12, 2008, 11:09 PM »

Quote from: Edvard on August 12, 2008, 06:25 PM

40Hz: I'm sorry if I caused confusion. I didn't mean that your post or Zaine's in themselves was causing me concern. The point I was trying to make was a fusion of your comment that discussions about OS preference often goes the way of religious convictions and Zaine's comment on what can and can't be talked about on DC.

Not a problem. And thank you for clarifying.

app103 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2008, 01:26 AM »

Ok, the war is over...everyone go home and enjoy the operating system of your choice.

And remember to be nice and not harass anybody else that is doing the same, on or off of dc. It's not nice to hit people in the face with a banana cream pie just because they prefer coconut custard. You can feel free to offer them a slice of yours, but don't get upset and hit them with it, if they don't accept it.

zridling · « **Reply #29 on:** August 13, 2008, 07:18 AM »

For me, the question is not "What OS do you use?" but "How do you collaborate with others?"

The former leads to the predictable slate of arguments we can recite in our sleep. The latter is best done when the code is freely available to all. My personal journey in the last nine months from using to Windows and Linux, to just Linux, all the while being able to do all the work necessary for my job, was enabled by several business apps that have been ported to different platforms. Broad use of open source apps like Firefox, WordPress, Python, PHP, and Komodo were key. OpenOffice, too, works across platforms as well, and it helps that ODF is widely used in the cloud. Like many today, I spend most of my day working with information and services through a browser. For my personal email, I use Gmail, an example of cloud computing.

When I move from “desktop” to “desktop” the most important thing is how I can access my information. If I can access my email and documents for work, and my music for fun, I’m happy. People have or want devices like the iPhone so that they can get work done anywhere, even if they can’t connect their laptops to wifi. Their use will continue to rise.

Linux finally stopped copying Windows circa 2001 this summer with the release of the KDE 4.1 desktop environment. It would be even better if everyone looked at what Apple is doing with usability and design and emulated their continuous success there. Heck, open source need look no further than WordPress, which has attracted excellent graphic designers to build themes and skins. I understand that to gain acceptance for new software, it is easier for users if you mirror the behavior of old software, but at some time you need to step out and innovate in the user interface. KDE 4.1 was a great step forward (for Linux) in this respect, as Vista was for Windows.

Innovation shouldn't merely be driven by maximum "cosmetic" UI consistency. The system -- whether its OS be Windows, Linux, or OS X -- should be held together by well-engineered common design principles and APIs rather than aging string, frivolous patents, and bubble gum (patch) coding.

app103 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 13, 2008, 09:01 AM »

Quote from: zridling on August 13, 2008, 07:18 AM

It would be even better if everyone looked at what Apple is doing with usability and design and emulated their continuous success there.

I wouldn't exactly call what Apple is doing "successful" and I wouldn't recommend that everyone emulate them.

Why not?

Hand a blind person an iPhone and ask him to make a call and have him explain the reason* to you.

* click here if you don't have an iPhone or know any blind people

Usability and accessibility go hand in hand. The iPhone fails in that respect, by removing buttons one can feel to identify what buttons they are touching, with a smooth touch screen that unless you have decent enough eyesight to see what you are doing, you don't know where the buttons are.

If everyone emulates Apple, then the visually impaired will never be able to use a mobile phone, ever again.

I don't call that "successful", nor do I call it progress, nor do I think it defines anywhere near the best in usability.

Additionally, I am going to give you an open invitation to come to my house and use Wordpress's admin control panel on MY computer and make a post to your blog. After you are finished swearing and ripping your hair out, you can come back here to this forum and edit your post from my computer, too.

I guarantee you that editing your post here will be a much easier and more enjoyable experience than making a post to your Wordpress blog.

And do my eyes deceive me? Are you actually praising Vista's eye candy bloat? There was a time you hated bloat. Now it seems you are embracing it, wallowing in it, praising it, and thoroughly enjoying it. I don't get it. What happened? Who are you and what have you done with the real Zaine?

Darwin · « **Reply #31 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:17 PM »

Quote from: app103 on August 13, 2008, 09:01 AM

And do my eyes deceive me? Are you actually praising Vista's eye candy bloat? There was a time you hated bloat.

Can't say my eyes see anything to suggest this in Zaine's post. I took his:

Quote from: zridling on August 13, 2008, 07:18 AM

Innovation shouldn't merely be driven by maximum "cosmetic" UI consistency.

as a dig, basically saying that all MS has done is make an attempt to make Windows prettier and to make that "prettiness" more uniform across the OS' various features. The comment doesn't even say whether he likes the UI! Call it more of a backhanded compliment as I'd argue that what Zaine is suggesting is that MS has been resting on its laurels...

Edvard · « **Reply #32 on:** August 13, 2008, 02:46 PM »

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Ok, the war is over...everyone go home and enjoy the operating system of your choice.

Hear, hear!!

And parents, talk to your kids about Linux before somebody else does.

Darwin · « **Reply #33 on:** August 13, 2008, 03:05 PM »

Cute comic, Edvard, thanks for the link

40hz · « **Reply #34 on:** August 13, 2008, 05:07 PM »

[attach]

superboyac · « **Reply #35 on:** August 13, 2008, 06:51 PM »

Quote from: zridling on August 10, 2008, 09:32 AM

...it was damn strange to have an 8Gb RAM Quad-core and it was not much faster than my old PIII.

This is THE critical issue for me. And it is so true. This will make me switch to Linux one day, like Zaine, I just know it. The only thing holding me back at this point is my absolute obsession with a lot of software available on Windows, and I just don't believe I'll be satisfied yet with their "equivalents" on Linux. But it's baffling, and a little insulting to my intelligence, to see that a fairly powerful computer can get bogged down in Windows even though I'm not really doing anything that is processor intensive. I rarely do anything with graphics or video, I never play games. Just email, text editing stuff, simple little programs here and there, music. Windows is sucking the life out of a computer's power, new or old. I have no reason not to believe that a 5 year old computer should be able to handle all the things I am currently doing in a very speedy way. Zaine, one day, when I have a little time to breath in my schedule, I'm going to go to Linux.
Actually, when I get a new computer, I'll change the old one to Linux and test it out. I'm almost sure that it may seem to be "faster" than the new one.

zridling · « **Reply #36 on:** August 13, 2008, 09:01 PM »

That's what I did, superboyac, when allowed me to leave my old Windows machine intact. Baby steps!
_____________
Darwin,

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I took his [zaine's] "Innovation shouldn't merely be driven by maximum 'cosmetic' UI consistency" as a dig, basically saying that all MS has done is make an attempt to make Windows prettier and to make that "prettiness" more uniform across the OS' various features.

Nah, don't take it as a dig. Rather I meant that Linux shouldn't bother to follow Windows' lead anymore. Let's see more innovation like KDE 4.1's plasma interface rather than waiting until Redmond does something, and then simply mimicking it. That's been done with apps throughout the history of Linux, e.g., Gimp was merely an attempt to copy the function of Photoshop; KDE 3 and earlier was merely following the Win98/XP UI, and even today it's pretty easy to install a 'Vista' theme or build it yourself to make Linux look like Vista.

And yes, I like Vista's UI better than XP's. (I just hate what they did to Windows Explorer and Solitaire, ha!)

Darwin · « **Reply #37 on:** August 13, 2008, 09:46 PM »

Ah, thanks for clarifying that, Zaine. Sorry I mis-read your original post! Crap - what have they done to Solitaire?! I haven't gotten that far in my Vista usage (and am on my XP machine at the moment...). I actually *sort of* like the new Explorer, but feel that they didnt' go far enough. I'm more retro - bring back the dual-pane philosophy from Win 3.x! I'm still trying to understand why they got rid of it in the first place... Thank goodness for XYplorer, DOpus, etc.

Darwin · « **Reply #38 on:** August 13, 2008, 09:48 PM »

PS I understand that XYPlorer is not dual-pane, but it is so well featured and thought out that it's HIGHLY useful! Having said that (and the points in the above post), I'm still playing with the new Explorer (though DOpus 9 is already installed and I have Total Commander, XYplorer, and others on my thumbdrive...).

jormartr · « **Reply #39 on:** August 14, 2008, 05:40 AM »

My main desktop is Linux, but I work with windows at work, and use some special software under virtualizated windows at home.

I work in the IT, so my opinion may be not valid on this thread, as is specifically on the desktop. Obviously, on the server and services, linux is not windows, I would never even think about trying to do windows act as a server as linux does, it would fail in some areas (not all, but most of them, at least the ones I need).

On the desktop I like console and lean window managers. I don't use desktop enviorenments (like xfce, kde or gnome), but only window managers.

Even this, Linux gaves you a flexibility that windows does not, you can configure a Linux desktop to behave within different desktop aproaches. This needs a little more tweak, but you can make the desktop adapt to yourself. On other operative systems you must adapt to the desktop.

Of course one can install a preconfigured distribution and start working within some minutes after the installation is made. There is the lego comparison everywhere, but the good point about this is that if you want to modify the lego, you can. If you prefer a made system, you can get a preconfigured lego, and you can choose between a one acting like a windows desktop, other as a macos desktop, and several others like a much different desktop, new ways of interaction, all of them ready to work. I see there is still some work needed to be done on software for the final user, but it is coming day after day, final user needs every day less hand work.

This brings the choice of a prebuilt and polised desktop, or a different one that adapts to oneself.

Author Topic: Linux is Not Windows (Read 36,871 times)

Edvard

Re: Linux is Not Windows

40hz

Re: Linux is Not Windows

40hz

Re: Linux is Not Windows

app103

Re: Linux is Not Windows

zridling

Re: Linux is Not Windows

app103

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Darwin

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Edvard

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Darwin

Re: Linux is Not Windows

40hz

Re: Linux is Not Windows

superboyac

Re: Linux is Not Windows

zridling

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Darwin

Re: Linux is Not Windows

Darwin

Re: Linux is Not Windows

jormartr

Re: Linux is Not Windows