Author Topic: What kind of tagging system would be appropriate for DC? (Read 109,115 times)

jazper · « **Reply #50 on:** January 10, 2008, 03:53 PM »

Quote from: KenR on January 10, 2008, 02:47 PM

None?

Agreed

Veign · « **Reply #51 on:** January 10, 2008, 04:03 PM »

General tagging is perfectly fine with me as its something I'm used to because of its use in blogging. But anything that starts to classify a member as someone to avoid because they haven't taken a pledge or chooses to not tag their posts is something I would not want to see.

This is a two way street and *all* members must be willing to have an understanding of other peoples views. This is a forum, not a church. We are all here to discuss topics on a common theme. These discussion should be allowed in the natural way a person speaks without fear of some repercussions. Its the varying personalities of the members that makes a forum. Try and do anything that tags members, censors posts, blocks content or makes reading the forum more difficult will only block theses personalties. Any system that gets implemented should take this into account.

If this were my forum I would implement a general tagging system, modify the search to handle tags, add a filter to filter posts by tags and then create a post about tagging, how it works, recommended tags. Then I would leave it alone. Basically the forum would look and act as it does now to members who want it to. (see my post above about a demo of a general tagging system for SMF)

edited to add: I would not go back and tag previous posts.

CodeTRUCKER · « **Reply #52 on:** January 10, 2008, 07:45 PM »

I see your point, but it seems like there should be a happy medium somewhere?

tinjaw · « **Reply #53 on:** January 10, 2008, 08:15 PM »

I looks like I am not effectively communicating my vision. What I am proposing is a generic framework. The NSFW aspects of it are just the first use case. Maybe I should just come out and say it. What I am proposing/building/discussing is a generic "attention" framework that I think can be leveraged for things much greater than keeping some priss from seeing the work fuck. (I'll give you a minute to recover from that.)

The Content Pledge is just a use case of a "Statement of Interest". Let's look at the complete opposite use case. I am not trying to protect my virgin eyes from something horrible that will scar me for life, instead I am a very busy computer programmer who only wants to talk about encryption, compression, and little rubber duckies. It's not that I find 3D CAD/CAM offensive, it's that I don't have enough

time to read every *** **** thread that gets posted here. And don't be so f&*#ing narcissistic to think that it is all about you and this

community. This is something that any community will be able to use. So get your fornicating heads out of your excretion point and look at the bigger picture.

Hopefully this post, the wording, the examples, and the gist will show you why this IS a Good Thing!!!!

tinjaw · « **Reply #54 on:** January 11, 2008, 08:22 AM »

Let me ask a question from a different angle that my provide some insight into how tagging should work.

Forget, for a moment, trying to find something. IOW, don't think in terms of searching for something. But instead think of filtering out stuff you have no interest in reading.

What tools would help you filter out stuff in a forum, any forum, not just DC, that would save you a little valuable time each time you visit?

Lashiec · « **Reply #55 on:** January 11, 2008, 02:29 PM »

Those little checkboxes and the "Mark messages as read" button. Seriously.

In terms of filtering out what I don't want to read, select what I want to read the most, giving me quick access to all posts, and let me stop and continue the reading when I have to go somewhere and can't finish checking up everything, DC forum is as streamlined as it can be, IMO.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #56 on:** January 11, 2008, 02:41 PM »

For filtering out stuff the only thing I would like is an 'ignore thread' option which would simply hide a thread. Preferably I would like a list of the threads I have ignored (perhaps in my profile along side subscribed threads etc.) so that I can recover threads in the case of error or if I change my mind.

Seriously all this discussion about tags and filtering would get way too complicated and impossible to maintain unless you had mandatory tagging during post composition otherwise it would be purely random whether posts were tagged in any way at all and even if people bother to use the tags would they do it consistently.

Also if a new thread is marked with a particular tag which you choose to ignore who knows what you would miss - some of the most useful and entertaining contributions have been part of digressions from the original thread topic. OK we could split threads but who is actually going to do it - I can barely keep up reading threads (in fact I don't any longer otherwise it would pretty much become a full time job!) let alone take action on them and Mouser has even less time than me! There would also be a potential for a fair amount of disagreement with thread splitting (which would effectively become editing).

KenR · « **Reply #57 on:** January 11, 2008, 03:32 PM »

Interestingly, all of the things I see being posted here as to what the tagging system is for and how it might work are VERY different than the individual discussions I have had with mouser about the topic.

As all of us seem to agree that in the end, we will defer to his judgement on the matter (for a variety of reasons), it might be informative to get some input from him on whether he is going to implement a tagging system, what it would be for, and how it would work.

Ken

tinjaw · « **Reply #58 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:15 PM »

Quote from: KenR on January 11, 2008, 03:32 PM

Interestingly, all of the things I see being posted here as to what the tagging system is for and how it might work are VERY different than the individual discussions I have had with mouser about the topic.

All good programmers know the maxim that users never use the software in the manner the developer planned for.

cranioscopical · « **Reply #59 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:30 PM »

In my view no tagging/filtering system would be appropriate for DC unless there is a significant majority demand for one.
A more apt response could be avoidance of the site by those who are unhappy.

KenR · « **Reply #60 on:** January 11, 2008, 04:36 PM »

Oh TinJaw,
Your just writing to hear yourself click now.

Ken

Quote from: tinjaw on January 11, 2008, 04:15 PM

Quote from: KenR on January 11, 2008, 03:32 PM
Interestingly, all of the things I see being posted here as to what the tagging system is for and how it might work are VERY different than the individual discussions I have had with mouser about the topic.

All good programmers know the maxim that users never use the software in the manner the developer planned for.

nosh · « **Reply #61 on:** January 11, 2008, 05:55 PM »

Quote

Interestingly, all of the things I see being posted here as to what the tagging system is for and how it might work are VERY different than the individual discussions I have had with mouser about the topic.

Sounds a bit exaggerated, Ken. Mouser did show some interest in a tag system and he mentioned tag clouds, etc. I don't see how everything discussed here is so irrelevant unless he has substantially changed his stand.

Quote

As all of us seem to agree that in the end, we will defer to his judgement on the matter (for a variety of reasons), it might be informative to get some input from him on whether he is going to implement a tagging system, what it would be for, and how it would work.

He's already stated the general focus here. And though he hasn't exactly reached out for suggestions & will spearhead the issue I see no harm in bouncing a few ideas around. Sadly, the issue is being confused with the rather sensitive one of further censorship (which 99% of the respondents don't seem to give a fuck

about).

KenR · « **Reply #62 on:** January 11, 2008, 06:42 PM »

Quote from: nosh on January 11, 2008, 05:55 PM

Quote
Interestingly, all of the things I see being posted here as to what the tagging system is for and how it might work are VERY different than the individual discussions I have had with mouser about the topic.

Sounds a bit exaggerated, Ken. Mouser did show some interest in a tag system and he mentioned tag clouds, etc. I don't see how everything discussed here is so irrelevant unless he has substantially changed his stand.

How extraordinary, you have not been involved in the conversations, you have no idea what he said, yet you say I am exaggerating. I'll tell you something you don't seem to know, your ability to conceive of something is apparently unrelated to it happening. In fact, the discussions mouser and I have had about a potential tagging system have been exclusively about it being used to mark posts for inclusion in the blog, the newsletter, etc. (I don't know this is to be the only use, that's why I asked mouser to comment). If you scan the material in the above posts, I think you will find the material in them "VERY different". So, next time you decide to make a post suggest I'm exaggerating, (or just plain lying), you might want to have some actual relevant facts that suggest it's the case.

Quote

Quote
As all of us seem to agree that in the end, we will defer to his judgement on the matter (for a variety of reasons), it might be informative to get some input from him on whether he is going to implement a tagging system, what it would be for, and how it would work.

He's already stated the general focus here. And though he hasn't exactly reached out for suggestions & will spearhead the issue I see no harm in bouncing a few ideas around. Sadly, the issue is being confused with the rather sensitive one of further censorship (which 99% of the respondents don't seem to give a fuck about).

Talk about it ALL you want. Create fantasies until your exhausted and bounce them up and down until you become vertiginous. Discuss how it will change the weather in your city or help you grow more facial hair. Me, I'd like some FACTS. I'd like to know what is actually going to happen. Only Mouser is going to decide whether there will be any tagging system implemented and, if any, what it will be. So, if he can tell us whether there is going to be a tagging system and knows what it will be (and I don't know that this is the case), then I want to know all the specific details that he is willing to disclose - not a "general focus"! Why are you so afraid of learning the truth about this issue? Are you more interested in ways it might be than THE WAY it's going to be? I would think that everyone would want to know everything they could about how things are going to be. Apparently though, that's just one of MY fantasies!

Ken

nosh · « **Reply #63 on:** January 11, 2008, 06:58 PM »

Tch tch, touchy touchy!

You said all the things discussed here are VERY different from what you discussed with mouser. I said he's mentioned tag clouds in his previous post so they're not that different coz we were discussing ideas about how posts should be tagged, which anyone with even an intermediate knowledge of programming would know is a prerequisite for tag clouds.

I don't presume to know what you've been discussing with mouser so I did qualify my statement by saying "unless he's substantially changed his stand". So yeah Ken, your statement was quite an exaggeration.

And yes, we will talk about it as much as we want. I generally assume that's the point of these forums.

Quote

I'll tell you something you don't seem to know, your ability to conceive of something is apparently unrelated to it happening.

Who said it would happen? Why would you assume that? It's just people discussing stuff, which is certainly more interesting/productive than getting into unnecessary flame wars.

tinjaw · « **Reply #64 on:** January 11, 2008, 06:59 PM »

I think KenR is definitely a candidate for the largest tag in the cloud.

tinjaw · « **Reply #65 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:06 PM »

Most of the discussion, here and elsewhere, is bringing me around to see that what I had in mind as an experiment would not be practical. However, I would like to try my ideas somewhere. I'll go off and try to find a forum more willing to put up with some increased workload to help get the baseline established. Anybody have any suggestions for forums.? DON'T POST THEM! Instead PM me. Posting them will not add any value to this thread.

administrative note: can we get the admin to increase the allowable file size. I tried up load my ego and got an File Too Large error.

Enough about tagging. Let's get back to talking about me.

CodeTRUCKER · « **Reply #66 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:07 PM »

[Edit - This is not directed at tinjaw's last comment. He is just being himself.]

tinjaw · « **Reply #67 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:16 PM »

Quote from: CodeTRUCKER on January 11, 2008, 07:07 PM

Edit - This is not directed at tinjaw's last comment. He is just being himself.

Thanks. Put another hash mark in the "Mentioned Tinjaw" column please.

Now if you excuse me I have to return to my debate. I want to go left, me wants to go right, and myself justs wants to go to Hell with his new handbasket.

Update: I forgot to add that I will be setting up a Tinjaw affiliate program for those of you who would like to make some money every time you mention my nick.

TucknDar · « **Reply #68 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:18 PM »

Well, getting the "focus off ourselves" involves us making judgments about what we think that everybody else on DC will like. Maybe I am the only one here that doesn't know what best serves the DC community as a whole!?

I think the only way of knowing what most DC'ers want is to read various opinions on whatever the subject is. So in conclusion I believe it's much better that each replier will state his or her opinion and NOT try to speak on behalf on the majority of the DC community!

CodeTRUCKER · « **Reply #69 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:24 PM »

No one is speaking as the majority, but given the PMs I have received since the beginning of this thread, I can tell you there is at least a silent minority. My whole point is I would like to explore (as we all are doing) how some "device" could be utilized to expand the hospitality available here. No one is saying it is bad, but only the arrogant would say there is no room for improvement.

CodeTRUCKER · « **Reply #70 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:42 PM »

What if a __________ system was implemented and those who desired to use it, started to do so and those who weren't interested weren't even aware it is in effect because the integration is seamless?

How do we, who are so diverse, even to determine what standard could/should be used?

tinjaw · « **Reply #71 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:45 PM »

I don't know the answer to this question, or even if it is a valid question, but...

What if a __________ system was implemented and those who desired to use it, started to do so and those who weren't interested weren't even aware it is in effect because the integration is seamless?

Is that possible? Would that be a desirable goal?

TucknDar · « **Reply #72 on:** January 11, 2008, 07:51 PM »

Quote from: tinjaw on January 11, 2008, 07:45 PM

What if a __________ system was implemented and those who desired to use it, started to do so and those who weren't interested weren't even aware it is in effect because the integration is seamless?

Fine with me, myself and I.

My only worry is that Wordzilla or mouser or anyone else would go through the trouble of coding this and only very few would actually use it (which might render it pretty useless). But then again maybe there's a SMF mod perfect for the _________ system? I don't know.

CodeTRUCKER · « **Reply #73 on:** January 11, 2008, 08:07 PM »

Is it a valid evaluation to say that "so few" would be served?

CodeTRUCKER · « **Reply #74 on:** January 11, 2008, 08:28 PM »

Maybe I am a hold-over from a different time, but I can't quantify worth based on numbers. Yes, yes, I know, the whole world is obsessed with ROI nowadays.