Author Topic: Why don't you pay for software? (Read 67,433 times)

wraith808 · « **Reply #50 on:** May 27, 2007, 01:47 PM »

Quote from: mikiem on May 27, 2007, 03:58 AM

I know coders have to eat, but other than the forums here, where are most people going to meet one? You’re just some abstract entity working all hours on caffeine and pizza.

This is actually a very interesting point. Though times are changing, it is still all too common that when someone asks me what I do, and I say that I'm a software developer, or even a computer programmer or coder, they say "huh? so what is it you do then?"

People *are* pretty divorced from the process that creates the software that they consume, and its become not just some sort of black box, but more akin to storks bringing babies or babies appearing in cabbage patches- they just don't know, don't care, and have the notion that it's *just there*. I don't really know how to combat this, or to cause the layperson to realize that software *does* have value, which I think is one of the reason that the average person *is* so ready to engage in casual piracy if someone offers them a 'copy' of the software.

Curt · « **Reply #51 on:** May 28, 2007, 09:26 AM »

Doing what is right is not just a matter of social intelligence. There is more to it. From Adam's time and until Judgement Day there were and will always be people attracted to evil, seing good as bad and bad as good. I mean; they crucified Jesus, didn't they. What can you expect? Some will think software pirates are heroes.

Mark0 · « **Reply #52 on:** May 28, 2007, 11:41 AM »

I'm the only one thinking that "pirate" is a such too strong word for what we are talking here?
I mean, it seems that the criminal connotations of the word (that may refer to murdering, raping, etc.) are a bit disproportionated...

mrainey · « **Reply #53 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:15 PM »

Quote

"pirate" is a such too strong word for what we are talking here

Are "thief" or "parasite" more acceptable?

Mark0 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 28, 2007, 01:20 PM »

I would say that "unauthorized duplication/usage" is better than "piracy".

BTW, just to clear things up, I live working as a programmer.

wraith808 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 28, 2007, 02:25 PM »

It's just a term... some people do say unauthorized duplication/usage. But pirate is a bit more catchy than unauthorized duplicator

Mark0 · « **Reply #56 on:** May 28, 2007, 02:34 PM »

Yes, I think that the BSA like it more that way!

wraith808 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 28, 2007, 02:52 PM »

I don't think most people associate pirates with the extreme negative connotations you bring up. I mean, look at the top movie of the Memorial Day weekend... is it Coders of the Carribean? I think not... LOL

AndyMacP · « **Reply #58 on:** May 28, 2007, 03:31 PM »

Personally I don,t pay simply because pensions do not stretch to such indulginces. I pay only for what I consider necessary, ie, security etc.

Darwin · « **Reply #59 on:** May 28, 2007, 10:34 PM »

Quote from: app103 on May 26, 2007, 09:40 PM

The question was "Why don't you pay for software?"

That question in and of itself doesn't imply that one uses pirated software.

I interpreted that question to mean "Why would you use freeware? And why would you choose not to support the software you use?"

This is a valid point. However, check out the quote from the introduction to the original discussion at Download Squad:

Quote

This is a post for the crack 'torrenters, the chronic non-donators and the I'll-stick-with-the- free - alternative'ers in the crowd: we want to hear your thoughts on why you don't pay for software.

It seems that the intent of the original thread, at least in part, was to address the issue of people using either donationware or shareware apps ("crack 'torrenters") without actually paying for them. So, piracy was included in the scope of the original discussion.

I agree, though, that we got into a bit of a rut and have focused almost exclusively on piracy. The use of donationware, e-mail-ware, postcardware, or other types of software that use alternative forms of licensing without actually honouring the end-user's part of the bargain (donation, postcard, etc.) seems to be a major problem as well. I mean, given that most software is downloaded now, how difficult is it to write an e-mail to thank a developer for their time and effort and for making the result of that time and effort available to you for download? Not saying I'm saying I'm perfect... In fact, thank you for making me think about this as I've a bunch of e-mail/postcards to write!

dave70 · « **Reply #60 on:** May 29, 2007, 12:19 AM »

I use "free" software, however, I do make donations to "free" software that I find to be useful enough to use often.

I have tried many "free" programs and later discarded them.

I have been tempted to "pirate" some programs, especially those that I have upgraded. I own every version of CorelDraw from 1 to 12 and haven't yet convinced myself to spring for X3 because they charge so much for just a few improvements, but, have so far resisted the temptation to "pirate".

I will, however, admit to "pirating" some programs before buying, just to see if they are as good as claimed. Most of these I have rejected, uninstalled and never purchased. Those that I decide are worth the money, I keep and purchase. Of course, if a good discount can be found on software that I like, I am greatly pleased.

I would estimate that I keep, continue to use and pay for or donate to about 5% of the programs that I try.

So, do I qualify as not paying for software?

Darwin · « **Reply #61 on:** May 29, 2007, 12:26 AM »

Quote

I will, however, admit to "pirating" some programs before buying, just to see if they are as good as claimed. Most of these I have rejected, uninstalled and never purchased. Those that I decide are worth the money, I keep and purchase. Of course, if a good discount can be found on software that I like, I am greatly pleased.

I must confess to having done this in the past myself. I no longer do this as I've become somewhat (in my own mind?) more discerning about software and how to make use of a trial. I suppose I might be tempted to do this with an app that doesn't have a trial and for which there is no clear policy about a money back guarantee. Like you Dave, if I did this and liked the software, I'd buy a licence otherwise I'd uninstall and move on. Haven't faced that situation, yet, though.

iphigenie · « **Reply #62 on:** May 29, 2007, 12:56 PM »

I must say, it doesn't occur to me. If it doesn't have a demo, I look for another program.

Darwin · « **Reply #63 on:** May 29, 2007, 02:06 PM »

When I did this in the past, it was to unlock those parts of a shareware app that were locked in a trial. I justified this in my mind because I was being asked to accept on faith that the features would work without being able to "try before I buy". I'd give the features a shot and then either buy or uninstall. I usually spent a lot more time finding the crack/hack/serial than I did trialling the feature(s)! In doing so, I exposed myself to all sorts of potential dangers - adware, spyware, malware, viruses - I don't have any desire to revisit those days.

Like you, iphigenie, I tend to look elsewhere when faced with a program without a trial. Part of becoming more "discerning" as I note above, is the realisation that there really are very, very few apps out there that are unique to the point that there isn't at leas one alternative. Thus I no longer feel any sense of urgency when faced with a tantalising app that I can't trial. For one thing, I can just peruse the forums at donationcoder and usually find postings about five or six alternatives, usually with detailed comments if not a mini-review. If an alternative isn't already mentioned here, I can just post and receive a range of suggestions!

wraith808 · « **Reply #64 on:** May 29, 2007, 03:04 PM »

I usually just indicate to the developer that I have nearly decided to purchase the software- the included features met my requirements. But I didn't want to buy it without seeing the other features. I've had four responses:

1. No response. So I don't get the software.
2. A 'No' response. So I don't get the software.
3. A 'sure' response- and unless the added features don't work, I always buy it.
4. A 'buy it and you can get a refund' response, in which case, I usually buy it and have (so far) never taken them up on the refund bit.

Darwin · « **Reply #65 on:** May 29, 2007, 03:39 PM »

Excellent advice wraith808! Approaching the developer to request a demo is preferable to pirating their product. I've been down each of the four paths that you suggest since I gave up running pirated versions, I can tell you that following your advice *feels* a LOT better than running a crack/hack/bogus serial. Another insight that comes from experience. Thank you for sharing it.

Laughing Man · « **Reply #66 on:** May 29, 2007, 03:54 PM »

Quote from: Gothi[c

link=topic=8634.msg62995#msg62995 date=1180229109]
Quote from: Carol Haynes on May 26, 2007, 11:57 PM
If you are serious does this philosophy apply to all intellectual pursuits?

yes

Quote
If it does then how does any business model work when nobody can earn a living at anything?

Noone should 'earn a living'. Living is our birth right, it doesn't need to be earned. The way the world works now, the system is completely defunctional and wrong. I'm not saying anyone has come up with a better one yet (someone may or may not have), but that doesn't make it less wrong. Now we just have legalized slavery. If you don't work in whatever field that brings in money, you can't survive.

Quote
Example: A designer designs a car, another designer designs a production line to produce it, engineers design the machine to run the production line and the processing plant to produce the raw materials, a mining engineer designs a method for extracting ore to supply the production process. All of these people are producing intellectual ideas just a programmers do - should none of these people get paid for their work - or is it all done for love and they work in MacDonalds to support their 'hobby'?

The designer of the car's production should optionally donate to the designer if he can, the miners should donate to the mining engineer if they can for making their job easyer, etc,... "if they can" being the keyphrase.

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Would you suggest that a factory worker should work for love of it?

Ideally, yes. He shouldn't be forced to do so otherwise. For money or no money.

But this is completely off topic, I just wanted to throw in my because the crowd was weighing in only one direction, and there are plenty of other viewpoints out there, mine is just one of them. And it's probably not perfect, I'm no where near claiming to have all the answers, but I do have a sense of right and wrong. And people not being able to get goods because they don't have the money is wrong, and people having to work to be able to live is wrong. Money is probably just wrong all together, since it's only led to greed, wars, suffering, and destruction.

I agree with you, in fact that's my belief as well. But as we know from experiments in political systems (such as communism) no human will work soley for the benefit of all or just for the sake of doing what they want to do. Money always has to be involved somehow. I've always viewed mankind as a selfish greedy species only looking for their own individual survival. Which is why I chuckle whenever I hear news that we're stepping closer each day to destroying ourselves. Weapons, terrorists, etc..and our ever quickening pace in technological development. But alas, till that day of complete destruction we all live in the social constructs that we've built that is capitalism and money.

Anyway, that's just my viewpoint, and I'm a bit of a pestimistic when it comes to humanity. I actually don't mind donating money to freeware, and donationware authors. Though it irritates me to "donate" money to corporations and businesses. Probably because for the first group, money isn't expected. While for the second group, money is expected. And if it's one thing I do despise, it is money's control over everyone including myself as long as I live in this world.

Darwin · « **Reply #67 on:** May 29, 2007, 04:41 PM »

Quote

Probably because for the first group, money isn't expected. While for the second group, money is expected. And if it's one thing I do despise, it is money's control over everyone including myself as long as I live in this world.

Also, the second group keeps threatening to litigate, litigate, litigate if you don't pay up! Kind of takes away any warm, fuzzy feeling that you might have about paying the piper!

wraith808 · « **Reply #68 on:** May 29, 2007, 05:00 PM »

Always remember, any company is only a group of people with more strictures, and more fiduciary duties/responsibilities- a company is *not* strictly an entity. Therefore, if you deal with the company as people (or in particular a person), then you're likely to get better results. I have taken the same stance with larger companies, and have received similar results. In fact, in one case, the salesperson from the company extended the trial on one product because near the end of the trial I started to evaluate another product they sold and wanted to buy them both at the same time.

Darwin · « **Reply #69 on:** May 29, 2007, 05:14 PM »

Interesting wraith808. I've heard of similar stories with people dealing with major players (can't remember specifics but by big I mean Microsoft or Adobe level companies) and getting similar results. I've not experienced this myself but it makes sense. I've always found that the general Judeo-Christian ethic of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" holds true in any situation. More often than not, if you as the customer are polite, level-headed and appreciative of the efforts being made on the other end some sort of accomodation can be reached. People working for large companies often have a much greater degree of leeway to "deal" with customers than smaller concerns and often have an incentive, too, to meet quotas and keep both the customer and their management team happy!

Good advice wraith.

Bjorn_Bear · « **Reply #70 on:** May 29, 2007, 07:32 PM »

I'm new to donationcoder

, all the people must have some reward.
Money or a thank you for a great work (free software), and if everyone start to download
illegal copy's this will happens in a time frame of a year.
no upgrades and no new program's on the market.

zridling · « **Reply #71 on:** May 30, 2007, 09:51 PM »

When you reread the original question, it wonders why people don't contribute anything, even a dollar. Devs also love [real] bug reports, too, along with honest criticism and suggestions. But the tone of the original question is more like: You liked the food and the service; so why not leave a tip?

I've got no qualms of temporary pirating for evaluation purposes, but if you leave it on your HD, pay for it. As Michael Rainey and Darwin point out, the developer spent countless hours (often years!) on the software, so give back and pay it forward. Hell, even Plato wrote about honor among thieves in The Republic.

OldElmerFudd · « **Reply #72 on:** July 03, 2007, 04:55 AM »

Actually, I don't have any problems paying for software I like and use. Many software authors create programs that become "donationware" because they put so much time and effort into maintaining and improving it. I enjoy donating to my favorite authors and buy their software when they take it shareware (Photofiltre Studio and JV 16 Power Tools, e.g.). Whenever possible, I pay for subscriptions to my favorite newsletters, or at least donate.

As to commercial software, I'm a little conservative. Photoshop CS, Dreamweaver 8, etc., have the flexibility and power I need and I don't mind paying for them. I use XP Pro SP2 on all my machines, and have no interest in Vista. I neither condemn nor support pirated software; if you need/use it, that's your choice.

Just my 2 pennies
OEF

mitzevo · « **Reply #73 on:** July 03, 2007, 05:53 AM »

commercial software fuels open source.. if commercial software didn't exist, who would every one blame?

other than that I pay for good software, nothing less. (most good software is free

)