BEWARE: IE7Pro and OrbitDownloader

[Wordzilla]

Especially if you are already using IE7Pro and/or OrbitDownloader, please read in!

Refer to the following two threads on the forum to see why I made this post:
IE7Pro : An ultimate Add-On for IE7
orbit downloader 1.0-the fastest free download manager

IE7Pro and OrbitDownloader are developed by the same team if you have a look at their about us pages and my snapshots of domain whois info  - YES you are right, they are spamming our forums again and propagating their "user testimonials" all over the net. As a friend of mine has duly pointed out, they have flooded the web with advertising to the point that it drowns out all complaints, google it and you won't possibly miss their spams. Given overwhelming evidence, I'm pretty sure that these activities are officially endorsed and sponsored. Orbitdownloader.com, which hosts a previous unknown product, gets a Google PageRank of 6 in such a short period (the site was created on 17-Oct-06, according to WHOIS)

WHOIS info:



There is not even a slightest chance I might be tempted to try these products out and I'd like to further inform folks here of these unethical marketing behaviors of the same origin. Why would you support products whose developers have more incentives to advertising in almost any way, acceptable or not, than to perfect their products and genuinely support their users (just have a look at their forums).

I hope you guys have not left this thread behind: orbit downloader 1.0-the fastest free download manager. The heated discussion ensued a wave of unethical marketing on the dc forums that promoted the product as a disguised satisfied user. It's still extremely easy to find out heaps and heaps of homebrew reviews, comments, and ratings on OrbitDownloader that people would not normally have given out for the less-than-stellar product.

I believe we were very happy to welcome the leading developer, Daniel Fang (read his self-introduction post) to the forum when he said to us on the IRC channel "we learn an lesson to be an polite software" and admitted "We spamming the review site".

Yes, it's often hard to get the word out esp. when you have a new product and are, unfortunately, short on cash to advertise it (and that's one of the reasons we created the Announce Your Software/Service/Product section to help software authors), but the IE7Pro and Orbitdownloader team has overdone their tricks, repeatedly (IE7Pro is their most recent product being promoted very unethically), to a degree that disgusts me irregardless of all kind considerations.

OrbitDownloader talks on DC IRC channel (excerpted from public chat logs, download the attached zip for complete logs):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nov 13 00:51:46 * Developer is now known as orbitdev
Nov 13 00:52:17 <mouser>
Nov 13 00:53:07 <orbitdev> We spamming the review site, and some one follow us spamming orbit are malware...
Nov 13 00:53:32 <orbitdev> We will do more anti-virus/adware scaner check more.


Nov 15 05:29:10 <orbitdev> mouser: is there any guide about how to promote an personal software..
Nov 15 05:29:20 <orbitdev> mouser: I want have an look.


Nov 15 20:10:49 * orbitdev (~orbit@209.157.252.9) has joined #donationcoder
Nov 15 20:11:08 <Dell[a]> hi orbitdev
Nov 15 20:11:15 <orbitdev> hi Dell..
Nov 15 20:16:32 <app> hi orbitdev
Nov 15 20:17:12 <orbitdev> hi app
Nov 15 20:19:06 <mouser> hi orbit
Nov 15 20:19:21 <mouser> orbit i think you  have some enemies, thought im not sure why
Nov 15 20:22:15 <orbitdev> you mean the anti-orbit post?
Nov 15 20:22:24 <mouser> i dont mean on dc
Nov 15 20:22:30 <orbitdev> some are our own problem's
Nov 15 20:23:08 <orbitdev> the other's may be the competitor's post..
Nov 15 20:23:17 <orbitdev> dunno clearly.
Nov 15 20:23:19 <orbitdev> mouser:
Nov 15 20:23:30 <orbitdev> mouser: ask you an serious question
Nov 15 20:23:43 <mouser> one person entered this channel before and yelled at us for supporting orbit download spyware
Nov 15 20:23:54 <orbitdev> mouser: how to promote an software over the intenet?
Nov 15 20:23:57 <orbitdev> ...
Nov 15 20:24:03 <mouser> and another posted on betanews a comment mad at donationcoder and mentioned we support orbit spyware
Nov 15 20:24:13 <orbitdev> sorry to bother you ...
Nov 15 20:24:17 <mouser> is ok
Nov 15 20:24:33 <orbitdev> I feel very very sorry about this.
Nov 15 20:24:35 <mouser> just dont prove us fools by making spyware/adware!
Nov 15 20:24:40 <orbitdev> yeah.
Nov 15 20:24:43 <orbitdev> I promise.
Nov 15 20:24:55 <mouser> then you have no need to apologize and we welcome you
Nov 15 20:25:32 <orbitdev> mouser: Is there any typical method to promote software?
Nov 15 20:25:43 <mouser> none of us here are very good at software promotion im afraid
Nov 15 20:25:50 <orbitdev> mouser: I only know to submit it to every download site.
Nov 15 20:25:54 <mouser> yeah
Nov 15 20:25:56 <orbitdev> mouser: without spam.
Nov 15 20:26:10 <mouser> well lets see..
Nov 15 20:26:19 <orbitdev> mouser: another things I know is to develop some unique feature
Nov 15 20:26:21 <mouser> you are making a blog, thats good
Nov 15 20:26:31 <mouser> yes main thing is keep developing the software
Nov 15 20:26:36 <mouser> over time people will see you are serious
Nov 15 20:26:41 <orbitdev> mouser: let the user have to use your product.
Nov 15 20:26:44 <mouser> and more will go take a look and try it
Nov 15 20:43:07 <mouser> orbit i only know of 2 ways to get attention for a program
Nov 15 20:43:14 <mouser> 3 ways really
Nov 15 20:43:17 <mouser> 1) buy advertising
Nov 15 20:43:39 <mouser> 2) keep working on your product and improving it and it will eventually get mentioned by blogs and other sites
Nov 15 20:43:54 <mouser> (involves luck and waiting)
Nov 15 20:44:10 <mouser> 3) have friends in high places who will talk about your stuff
Nov 15 20:44:24 <mouser> #2 is the one most of us have to live with
Nov 15 20:44:32 <mouser> since we are not rich and dont have powerful friends
Nov 15 20:44:50 <mouser> so i can only suggest you keep working and improving
Nov 15 20:45:08 <orbitdev> yeah...
Nov 15 20:45:10 <mouser> and think about stuff you might add that would make it unique and useful
Nov 15 20:45:21 <orbitdev> en
Nov 15 20:46:33 <orbitdev> the only thing we can do is to continue increase the quality of our product.
Nov 15 20:46:47 <orbitdev> and learning the rules from you & other guys.
Nov 15 20:48:12 <mouser> #1 rule -> enjoy what you are doing
Nov 15 20:50:45 <mouser> if you want to talk to us about your plans for future of your website
Nov 15 20:50:49 <mouser> like you were saying before
Nov 15 20:51:03 <mouser> we might be able to give you suggestions and ideas
Nov 15 20:52:17 <orbitdev> en
Nov 15 20:53:32 <orbitdev> our website still in very early stage. just an video clips aggregator. after we have the first beta version, I will invite you to have an look.
Nov 15 20:54:03 <mouser> sounds good


Nov 17 01:35:53 <Orbitdev> mouser: we make the final decision base on your advice, terminate orbitnet after orbitgui quit, and you can disable orbitnet through options menu/installation menu, Becasue of this, we delay the 1.0.0.3 release date . Because of the weekend, we will release it in the next thuesday.
Nov 17 01:36:26 <Orbitdev> mouser: We learn an lesson to be an polite software

- Anderson


[edited to fix a link]

[Wordzilla]

And what being more disturbing is that so far their products (downloader and IE extension) directly connects to the Internet to work.

[dk70]

More lack of experience and startup "problems" than evilness I think. How is the chronology in this? They wize up or not? How you know spamming is sponsored?

Marketing is not evil - ever heard of SpreadFirefox? No offence to DC but it is just another forum - you find such post everywhere. Does not have to be directly connected to developers. A few fanboys can create lots of noise, dont expect them to care about rules. I actually use IE7Pro so would like to see of what is "very unethically" - needs more than forum spamming to get upset. So same developers behind those 2 programs, sites look the same as well - and ?

Connecting to internet is not really disturbing if you have ticked "check for updates" - so not the case I guess? To be a valid disturbance I would like to see analysis of transfer. Much software connects, many sites collects info.

[cmpm]

Well it's on the ms website, but only 130 downloads from there.
If it's the same add-on.
No reviews, I think I'll wait a bit to try it.

http://windowsmarketplace.com/details.aspx?itemid=3407728#productSpecs

Shoot win xp took like three years to actually get most of it's problems solved.

Now they introduce vista..o boy...

Anyways....I don't understand why all the posting on forums when it's free. What is the purpose? I don't know.

And yes it's a direct connect to the internet as well as Google's toolbar. Google has a good reputation to my knowledge of keeping things secure.

Don't know anything about this IE7Pro deal. But that don't mean much anyway either....lol....cuz I don't know much about what data it will collect.

Think I'll wait this one out. But that's me. Besides all that it does can be done with other programs as well I'd bet.

Most if not all programs here at this site are posted by the author.
When no one knows about it being in existence.

Not putting IE7Pro in a bad light - just cautious.
It's very new and I am too tired to mess with something that is unproven by outside sources.

Though I do respect dk70's posts, I'd like to see more end users report on it's stability and security.

[Wordzilla]

How is the chronology in this?

Spamming started from November 09, 2006 here on DC forums (their sites were registered on October 17 2006, according to WHOIS) when a guy related to the team posted about OrbitDownloader.

Spamming resumes on May 10, 2007.

How you know spamming is sponsored?

1. Overwhelming feedbacks from search engines

Take one search query for example:  http://www.google.com/search?q=%22I%27ve+been+using+IE7Pro+for+a+few+weeks+and+I+really+really+like+it%22&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&start=0&sa=N&filter=0


2. Forum IP and email records





(click on the following usernames to read their last posts)

elva7025 is the first guy who posted a series of messages promoting OrbitDownloader on DC forums. We had to delete all of them but one, which was later moved to Announce Your Products section.

fishathome looks like an innonent user and supporter of Orbit Downloader but he happened to share the same ip with elva7025. 

orbitdev claims to be "the team leader of Orbit Downloader's develop tem"  but he happened to share the same ip with elva7025 and fishathome.    Interestingly, he introduced himself to us on the forum.

It's quite obviously that elva7025, fishathome, and orbitdev are the same guy who registered a couple of dummy accounts on the forum and played as puppet master hands from behind, is it not the case? Proxies that he used wouldn't help hide his identity.

Now we have Amabel who really likes the new IE7Pro... u get the idea.

Should I replace the words "endorsed and sponsored" with "directly involved", to be more accurate? 


3. orbitdev, the team leader admitted on IRC that he spammed. (read chat logs above)

If you are not sure about the scope of their spamming activities, check out "user" reviews and comments on download sites like download.com and softpedia.com. And moreover, Google it - there's just too much to miss.

[Wordzilla]

Anyways....I don't understand why all the posting on forums when it's free. What is the purpose? I don't know.

No spyware/adware on earth charges you a dime. What's the purpose of exposing their nasty tricks?

[dk70]

Well is that not stating the obvious. How many spammers would engage in IRC chat with ADM? Is he that dumb or new to the game?

Not hard to find stupid useless "reviews" on Betanews or where ever, spamming from developers or not. Comment section is not supreme court. As long as you dont know sender how can you know what is spam or not? - and does it really matter? I thought sorry state of most other software sites was one of the reasons most here liked DC. As you can see stupid promotion tricks dont work.

Eh, if you disregard softplatz site whatever that is your Google proof looks a bit thin, a handful of hits! - but I sure believe they, being them self and/or friends "spam". Try some other keywords instead of just that quote, may be they use more than 1 catchy sentence. Unless you plan to be 400 years old there is hardly a wave at DC btw.

Happens every day all over the place so I dont know why so upset. Im sleepy but if IP logs prove no ability to wize up xxxxx should be banned of course. Up to higher powers - however, I thought you were warning against programs as well? To hint security issues you need solid proof I think.

Is it suspect not to charge for software? May be they have plans to sell parts of their code to other company later on, or make payware versions - or just want to attract attention/$$$ through popularity. Nothing wrong in that, no one knows.

[app103]

I find this alarming:


Source: http://www.pctools.com/mrc/infections/id/Trojan.Dropper.DuDu/

Note:
Softpedia guarantees that Orbit 1.0.0.2 is 100% CLEAN, which means it does not contain any form of malware, including but not limited to: spyware, viruses, trojans and backdoors. But right after install Orbit is trying to connect to DuDu.com (chinese website) and scanning with Ad-Aware SE Professional the things are getting worst :

- Adware.DuDu * 3 objects
- Adware.DesktopMedia * 1 object

So try this at your own risk, can be just fp or not.

Source: http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=511043

Ya, Orbit 1.0.0.1 right after install is trying to connect to DUDU.COM
:

Name: Adware.DuDu

TAC Rating: 4

Category: Adware

Description:
Adware.DuDu is a Chinese application that shows advertising while
browsing with Internet Explorer. It is part of a bundled install and
installs without user consent. There is also an English version of this
application.

Source: http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.comp.freeware/msg/afdf36354f7b03e0?dmode=source

Well, according to the support team, Orbitnet.exe (which is the p2p backend used to help speed up downloads) connects to a bunch of servers so it can be ready to help with the speeding up of them. Some of the servers it uses are in a subnet range with causes some Anti-Spyware programs to think that its communicating with DUDU.com (even though it isn't doing anything harmful).

Source: http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=6092.msg43249#msg43249

and this:


DUDU-INC.COM???!!

<sarcasm>
Oh, no...of course not...they aren't related to dudu in any way shape or form...they just by accident share the same IP block.
</sarcasm>

Sorry...I am not buying the bull, not after all the other deceptions and unethical practices, and lying.

Take a risk with your own pc if you want...trust them if you want...but I won't. 

[Wordzilla]

Well is that not stating the obvious. How many spammers would engage in IRC chat with ADM? Is he that dumb or new to the game?

How many spammers would engage in IRC chat with ADM and admit he spammed? Probability theories fail in this case. He joined IRC and admitted "we spammed", well maybe it only happens every 100-200 years but it did. Perhaps our forum thread threated the reputation of his product and he was forced to defend it no matter how.


Showing of technically solid, black and white, indisputable evidence is less and less likely to be to a practical approach to identifying spyware today.

The intelligence of malware authors should not be underestimated. They are getting smarter by the hour. Malware does not have to behave badly and get caught right after you install it, otherwise it will become antivirus fodder very soon. It does not have to display ads to you upon launch everytime so you'd be figuring out how to get rid of it. It does not even have to play nasty on you until the developer decides that his user base has reached a certain level that it becomes profitable to enable the dormant spyware module. And you will be there frantically looking for the culprit among your recently installed apps.

Sometimes we just have to take all aspects of the matter (technical or not) into consideration, couple with some not-so-absolutely-sufficient technical evidence - to make a judgment.

So users: Take some hints if you can!

Happens every day all over the place so I dont know why so upset.

AFAIK, we have folks here who use Orbit Downloader, some of whom even defended the program upon revelation of potential spyware activities and offered advice to the developer. It is my belief that they deserve to be better informed.

[dk70]

Spyware Terminator is made by former adware makers and still "recommended" every where. Im not so sure you should use FDM, DAP or Flashget either if you have too good memory.

All I will say about listing random findings from random versions is I believe such activities can always be proven and situation is today and todays version. Can take note of past all you like but this is what must be investigated. That thread on Neowin calms down fast does it not? You are looking for "proof" not proof and why I post.

They even use "Dont be evil" as motto and sing no spyware etc. so of course a big problem if not the case. I believe anything but not without proof. Orbitdownloader is at version 1.55 so start there and report result. I just installed it with no popups from Kaspersky but other programs might think differently. Featured at same Neowin btw http://www.neowin.net/index.php?act=view&id=40230

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/dudu.com/summary/ possible they have a different web "culture". And this has what to do with programs? Members here use a billion of sites, programs - , make better safe than sorry/warning forum. Will be a busy one.

If banning those IPs stops the "wave" then ban away.

[wreckedcarzz]

(Sorry to bump a 3 month old thread, btw)

Anyways, I just read like 5 pages of this stuff...completely rediculous if you ask me! Wouldn't an IP ban solve the problem (as dk70 said)? And perhaps a removal of the threads/topics talking about them (as to remove further download & infection)? I have seen a couple people using IE7 addons just like this one, completely oblivious to the fact that their computer has become a spam bot in an army (or whatever). More shouldn't to fall victim to it.

And on a somewhat off-topic note...

Spyware Terminator is made by former adware makers and still "recommended" every where. Im not so sure you should use FDM, DAP or Flashget either if you have too good memory.

I personally use and LOVE Spyware Terminator (and yes, I know about its past, in full) and Free Download Manager isn't half bad, either. (Just had to defend my program, it has saved my behind several times )

[lanux128]

i'm with wreckedcarzz, i've been using FDM for some time and have had no problems whatsoever.. anyway, check out this mini-review by brotherS.. and also comments from other DC members..

• http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=1801.0
• http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?action=search2;search=%22free+download+manager%22

[GimmeAreason]

Do you realise, this is great, reopening such an old thread but that is exactly what I am posting about funnily enough!
Do you realise that this is only NOW being discussed in the newsletter windows weekly (this is a very highly respected and successful newsletter that is subscription as well as a free limited edition).
I got this in it today and though it seemed familiar:
Checking IE7Pro's background gives a reader pause
Isn't it strange that so many people only just heard about this?  Including me, I only found it on here not so long ago!
so the question is now:  Are they a trustworthy company?
Is there really anything wrong or risky with using their software?
If anyone would like to comment I would be interested to hear anything 
Cheers,
Gimme

[Curt]

Welcome, gimme!

We may not like their methods, but I am confident their products are o'kay.

I have been using both IE7Pro and Orbit, though not at the moment (but they are still installed and updated), and was never informed by NOD32, ThreatFire, or Outpost Pro, about anything dangerous. I would take "the risk", because they are both doing what they promise to do, and I have not been spammed in any way, but this does not mean that I approve of their marketing methods in general.

[Grorgy]

must say I have at various times used both programs and have not had anything untoward happen, the programs seem to work as described so if they are what you are looking for I would use them.  (I only just got rid of IE7Pro the other day because I never use IE7 these days and was clearing out unused programs, I tried orbit downloader sometime back and from memory I just wasn't completely satisfied with its features and have since moved to getright)

[videospot]

I am using flashget with Firefox, it's enough for me.

[Fred Nerd]

Someone mentioned DAP, I did use it for a while, but then it got too full of itself and started taking over everything and starting automatically even when I had set it not to.

Then it had a very messy uninstall. Wouldn't touch it again.

[GimmeAreason]

Hmm how did I forget about this already. Here I am using orbit as my main (only) download manager!
Hmm...