Author Topic: Don't call it "the tray"! (Read 42,647 times)

Cpilot · « **Reply #25 on:** April 23, 2007, 02:12 PM »

Pedantic or not in the long run I doubt it'll make a difference.
Common terminology is arrived at by consensus.

Case in point, in the 80's Xerox made some noise about using it's name as a verb.
As in xeroxing to mean making a copy. It never got anywhere because it became a common term for using a copy machine.

lanux128 · « **Reply #26 on:** April 24, 2007, 01:57 AM »

Quote from: Cpilot on April 23, 2007, 02:12 PM

Common terminology is arrived at by consensus.

exactly, words evolve as people use them.. any linguistic expert or dictionary compiler would vouch for this, even though he may not agree with the words.. btw, google is not tearing its hair off everything someone googles on the web..

f0dder · « **Reply #27 on:** April 24, 2007, 08:30 AM »

I thought google was against it's name being used as a verb...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20030620-162.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3006486.stm

lanux128 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2007, 02:23 AM »

Quote from: f0dder on April 24, 2007, 08:30 AM

I thought google was against it's name being used as a verb...

hehe.. google has proved that it is a corporate business after all.. so much for "do no evil"..

thanks for clarifying, f0dder..

Cavalcader · « **Reply #29 on:** April 25, 2007, 02:56 AM »

Quote from: lanux128 on April 25, 2007, 02:23 AM

hehe.. google has proved that it is a corporate business after all.. so much for "do no evil"..

I'm starting to wonder if it's even possible to run a huge business and still put out a good product over the long haul. Still, ya gotta admit, protecting their investment in the company name is one of those necessary evils. Imagine how long it took some creative people to come up with the name Kleenex, and now it's about as generic as can be...

Whoops, wandering way offtopic. How about a Kleenex dispenser in the Notification Area?

Darwin · « **Reply #30 on:** April 25, 2007, 04:05 AM »

How about hoovering up a xerox of a kleenex that someone has written all over with a biro?

OK, so two of my two examples are common in British English... I don't care!

CleverCat · « **Reply #31 on:** April 25, 2007, 11:57 AM »

Curt - just goes to show how smart you have to be to have a good command of the English Language!

I am teaching my neighbour's 9 year old (Afrikaans) Son, as his Father wants him to speak 'real' English and not the local variety!

I am British BTW...

Renegade · « **Reply #32 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:11 PM »

Quote from: Darwin on April 17, 2007, 05:12 AM

Quote
When I was a little boy, my sister was a "slut". "Slut" originally meant "little girl" and had no sexual connotations. The word changed.

! How old are you, Renegade? On the west coast of Canada at no point in the last 50 years (that I am aware of) has calling a guy's little sister a slut been anything other than derogatory, inflammatory, and loaded with sexual connotations!

The examples there are more than just a few years old. A couple hundred or so. Never-the-less, the meaning of the word changed. Not in our lifetime, but still, it illustrates the point that the meanings of words (and what things are called) changes over time.

Another example would be "tissue" being called "kleenex" or "cola" being called "coke".

As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)

The above example with "slut" was meant for dramatic effect. I thought that was obvious in the context.

f0dder · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:13 PM »

Quote from: "Renegade"

As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)

You've heard that mp3 too?

Renegade · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:17 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on April 25, 2007, 10:13 PM

Quote from: "Renegade"
As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)
You've heard that mp3 too?

Actually, I got that from a university class in Old Anglo-Saxon well before the George Carlin comedy routine.

f0dder · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:20 PM »

That's the guy who made that 60-minutes-ish monologue on "the meaning of the word f***"? I've been trying to track it down on and off

Renegade · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:28 PM »

It's not that long. I forget exactly how long it is - around 5~10 minutes I think. The guy is really smart though. Some of the most intelligent comedy out there.

Darwin · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:35 PM »

Quote

The above example with "slut" was meant for dramatic effect. I thought that was obvious in the context.

Yup - it was obviously meant for dramatic effect, I just read it as having changed over the course of your life, that's all.

Thanks for the clarification - I wasn't aware of that!

f0dder · « **Reply #38 on:** April 25, 2007, 10:40 PM »

60 minutes as in http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml - there's always this old guy at the end who's doing a funny monologue

Darwin · « **Reply #39 on:** April 26, 2007, 02:06 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on April 25, 2007, 10:40 PM

60 minutes as in http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml - there's always this old guy at the end who's doing a funny monologue

Aah...! Andy Rooney.

f0dder · « **Reply #40 on:** April 26, 2007, 02:07 PM »

Ah yeah, that's his name! - dunno if it's he who did the sketch I remember, but the voice reminded me of him.

superboyac · « **Reply #41 on:** April 26, 2007, 04:34 PM »

I actually appreciated learning this little nugget of info. I'm pretty particular myself, so I like this sort of thing. For example, I just learned that DVD originally stood for "Digital Versatile Disc" not "Digital Video Disc".

Renegade · « **Reply #42 on:** April 26, 2007, 09:57 PM »

Quote from: Darwin on April 25, 2007, 10:35 PM

Quote
The above example with "slut" was meant for dramatic effect. I thought that was obvious in the context.

Yup - it was obviously meant for dramatic effect, I just read it as having changed over the course of your life, that's all.

Thanks for the clarification - I wasn't aware of that!

Sorry - I misread what you meant. It never occurred to me that you were asking if I was 397 years old!

Edvard · « **Reply #43 on:** April 26, 2007, 11:36 PM »

Quote

As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)

I remember in Junior High School looking up dirty words in the oldest dictionaries I could find in the library. One of them said the word in question was a verb that meant "to hit".

Gives new insight to the phrase "I'd hit that..."

:duck: :run:

lanux128 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 27, 2007, 02:05 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on April 25, 2007, 10:11 PM

As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)

here is another source that traces the origin via a Scandinavian derivation of "focka" meaning to copulate..

Curt · « **Reply #45 on:** April 27, 2007, 10:38 PM »

Quote from: CleverCat on April 25, 2007, 11:57 AM

Curt - just goes to show how smart you have to be to have a good command of the English Language!

In fact the two most difficult languages in the world are said to be Danish and Japaneese.
- Did you know that the English language has some 500 words from Danish...?

A Nordic example (Danish, Dutch, German, English, Norwegian, Swedish and Icelandic):
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Renegade · « **Reply #46 on:** April 28, 2007, 01:02 AM »

Quote from: lanux128 on April 27, 2007, 02:05 AM

Quote from: Renegade on April 25, 2007, 10:11 PM
As yet another example, the origin of the word "f**k" comes from a word meaning "to thrust", as in to thrust with a sword. (Old Anglo-Saxon)
here is another source that traces the origin via a Scandinavian derivation of "focka" meaning to copulate..

Quote

One of the most common probably derives from the same root as the Norwegian word fukka and the Swedish focka (to copulate), and was first recorded in the early 16th century.

That helps put things in perspective historically and it's easier to see how the original "to thrust / to stab" evolved into "focka/fukka" with that meaning, and then to our modern sense of it now.

And who said linguistics or history was boring?

lanux128 · « **Reply #47 on:** May 03, 2007, 03:06 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on April 28, 2007, 01:02 AM

And who said linguistics or history was boring?

yes, it doesn't have to be.. just check here..

Maggy160 · « **Reply #48 on:** May 04, 2007, 08:39 AM »

Webster online dictionary:
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=fuck
Etymology: akin to Dutch fokken to breed (cattle), Swedish dialect fokka to copulate
The Dutch verb is much older than the Swedish one and has no relation with the old English word for to thrust as far as I can find.
Some other words "borrowed" from Dutch:
apartheid easel cookie dapper dock landscape sketch still life filibuster loafer slim scrabble Santa Claus scone snoopy yacht yankee
and some things the English think about us...
Dutch courage: courage from a bottle
Dutch uncle: suger daddy
Dutch wife: pillow
Dutch gold: fools gold
Double Dutch : you know...
Dutch treat, Dutch party, Dutch auction....