Quote from: f0dder on March 14, 2011, 06:53 PM

Quote from: Darwin on March 14, 2011, 03:38 PM

Quote from: "WinRAR"

For all the other WinRAR customers, who have purchased a regular license (even if the purchase has been made in 2005 or 2003 for example), we still offer free upgrades and updates. There are no indications that this policy will change in the near future.

Clear enough!

...let's just hope they stick with that for a long time

One would hope.

I spoke with an attorney recently about all these 'policy' changes where software developers are backing out of their former 'lifetime' license agreements by either changing the product's name, or simply announcing (with a suitable amount of handwringing) that they've decided to no longer honor their previous terms.

He said if the software user was legally bound by the terms of the license at the time of installation, such an after the fact policy change to the license terms could be construed as a breach of contract and could also risk running afoul of antifraud statutes. At least in the USA.

He also said the business justifications that are offered for backing out of "lifetime free upgrades" agreement have no legal relevance. If you enter into a contract, you are bound by what both parties agreed to, even if your situation changes down the road.

The only way out of that is to either offer a new set of terms BOTH parties agree to - or refund the buyer's original purchase price.

Moral: stand by your word or have your checkbook ready. And think twice about what you offer. 

Years ago Fruity Loops offered lifetime upgrades for free. Then, they stopped producing it and instead went with its replacement, Fruity Studio.

The name changed. Technically, they were still honoring their agreement.

I don't know if changing policy/agreement could ever be enforced by the courts. I've not heard of any cases.

Years ago Fruity Loops offered lifetime upgrades for free. Then, they stopped producing it and instead went with its replacement, Fruity Studio.

The name changed. Technically, they were still honoring their agreement.

I don't know if changing policy/agreement could ever be enforced by the courts. I've not heard of any cases.

I was discussing that same thing with an attorney not to long ago. The answer is a "definite maybe." 

Fortunately for most of these companies, the average user doesn't care enough to force the issue. This attorney said some of these companies would likely have a very bad time if they wound up in court. In the USA, it also gets a lot more serious if you're doing business online and with credit cards. Any time you use electronic transfers it opens up the possibility doing something that could be considered fraudulent, which makes it a criminal offense.

Moral: don't play games with your commercial agreements. Especially if you're doing business online.

Rule of Thumb : Never offer your customers a 'lifetime' anything.   

I decided to buy a WinRAR license but before I made my purchase, I emailed sales@win-rar.com if they still offer lifetime upgrades. Here is the reply :

"Thank you for contacting WinRAR!

It has always been our policy to offer our licensed private users free
upgrades. There is no indication this policy will change in the
future."

So I bought it, but when I tried to register WinRAR 4.10 Beta 5 with the attached registration file, the registration failed. I emailed support immediately and this is the reply :

"Hello,
this 'version specific' license needs WinRAR 4.01 to run.
It will not accept any newer version of RAR / WinRAR.
If not already done, download and install WinRAR 4.01"

What??? It doesn't look like lifetime upgrades license to me. Not register, even on the same major version. I demand my lifetime license, but two days have passed and still no response. Now I'm thinking to claim a refund with Paypal.

I still believe in lifetime licenses, I have those from PowerArchiver, TrueLaunchBar, Axialis and recently Listary Pro.
WinRAR? Never again.

@y2kusuma - See if you can email Burak Canboy and ask him about it. That's the top of the chain for WinRar.

Thanks Renegade, but I don't know his address.

Another good reason to use any of the free archivers available, PeaZip, 7-Zip, IZArc, they don't require to do these backward hoop-jumps just to be able to use 'm.

And besides that, the .rar fileformat doesn't have any (big) benefits over the other compressed fileformats that makes it worth to pay for.
Nor the illusion of 'support' from any of these suppliers.

That sounds very strange, y2kusuma!

I registered WinRAR back in... humm... it was the very first thing I registered when I finally got a VISA card, so it's quite a few years ago. And I've just checked, it works fine with the latest 4.10 beta 5. Deal with rarlabs.com instead of win-rar.com

I'm actually surprised they still offer lifetime upgrades, and IMHO it's a big failure for companies to do so. Eventually, they'll have saturated their user base, and then they'll have to launch new products or pull some nasty tricks and drop the lifetime upgrade support. Better to be realistic...

And besides that, the .rar fileformat doesn't have any (big) benefits over the other compressed fileformats that makes it worth to pay for.
Nor the illusion of 'support' from any of these suppliers.

It wasn't until 7-zip that there was a competitive compression format with both speed and size - and it took a while before 7-zip on high compression settings got fast. And are there any of the other archivers that support advanced features like saving NTFS alternate data streams and security ACLs? On top of that, WinRAR has pretty flexible commandline support, and at least 7-zip comes nowhere near that.

I also find the GUIs of the other archivers I've tried to be, well, sucky. WinRAR is lean and mean :-)

That said, it's 7-zip I put on friends and relatives computers, since it fits their needs and is gratis. Heck, it (mostly) fits my needs too, and I also do like that the archive format and code is open. These days, I could probably live with the less polished product, since I mostly do unarchiving and my archiving is scripted through the commandline...

I am glad WinRar is grandfathering in customers that had purchased license with lifetime upgrades.

I personally see nothing wrong if they are changing their licensing agreement for new customers, just don't pooch your old customers by virtually tearing up the old contract and shoving the new one down their throats. 

I feel like that I made an investment in a early/startup company by purchasing their product based on certain features and promotions, fully knowing that the company may or may not prosper.

I *feel* certain that WinRAR does not offer lifetime keys, because even the "1-year of maintenance, including the right to upgrade (within that year)" is $6.14 extra!:

rarlab.com doesn't offer any "insurance" by the way, while win-rar.com adds the "WinRAR Maintenance" package to your shopping cart automatically... neither of the sites specifically mention anything about the lifetime for licenses, though.

That's why I emailed them first to ask if they still offer lifetime upgrades. And they clearly states they still offer it.

I also ask in second email about Maintenance Package :

"Thank you for your answer. If so then what does maintenance package-upgrade assurance mean? It says that I get latest version during 1 year period. Is there any fine print that I missed?"

The answer :

"The Maintenance Package guarantees upgrades and priority support. As I mentioned previously, our private customers who purchase a license are provided upgrades either way. The maintenance funds go primarily into product development and are generally oriented toward business customers."

@y2kusuma:
From what I read I get the impression you first have to install WinRAR 4.01, use the license to register that specific version and then freely download/install updates.

I did as you suggest. It doesn't work.