Toying with TheBat! - any plugin suggestions?

[Carol Haynes]

I am getting increasingly fed up with the flakiness of MS Outlook XP (it seems to frequently freeze on me and has done for quite some time) and so I decided to toy with TheBat! for a while and see if I like it or not ... at the moment it all feels a bit strange and awkward and I keep retreating back to Outlook (I set TheBat! to leave all my messages on the server so that I could play without being stuck with mail in two programs).

Curiosity - what plugins do people use?

I found BayesIt (installed with the trial version) and activated that but is there any way to configure it or train it? Any other antispam plugin suggestions?

Does BayesIT! filter automatically after install or does it have to learn? One thing I did notice is that if I mark a message as Junk (which I found tucked away in a menu - not the best place IMHO) it is moved to the junk folder - but if I mark an email in the Junk forlder as 'not junk' nothing appears to happen.

How about AV plugins? Do you actually need one with NOD32 running in the background or am I missing something (there seems to be a lot confused and argumentative discussion on WidersSecurity Forums on this issue but no clear answer)?

Any other plugins worth looking at?

Finally if I get to like the Bat how do I import my mail from OutlookXP? There doesn't appear (at first glance anyway) to be an obvious way to do this as it doesn't seem to support PST files?

[mouser]

the one plugin i use:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Jibz/Piper/index.html
i use it in conjunction with:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Mouser/TheFormLetterMachine/index.html

[Carol Haynes]

Thanks.

How do I get HTML messages to display properly? I am trying to read a newspaper HTML digest but none of the images display at all (just rectangles with a small red cross).

I found a NOD32 plugin on the Bat website but I am not sure what it does that NOD32 doesn't do any way? (Before installing the plugin email was obviously filtered by NOD32 as all the mail had the NOD32 banner note at the bottom).

[mouser]

re: nod32 - i have same feelings - what's the point, the antivirus is scanning files anyway..
regarding html: i have to admit that i keep my viewier in text mode normally, so i can't help with that.  if i had to guess i'd say that the images used in the mail are online and not included with the mail, and that thebat is refusing to download them.  may be an option for it.

[kimmchii]

any reason you dont use Outlook Express?
it works well for me.

[Carol Haynes]

I used OE ages ago but I don't like the lack of filtering options. It is also awkward to back up your data including rules, interface layout etc.

[Carol Haynes]

Hmmm - just read the FAQ page on another website (strangely it is linked from the Help menu to a blank page - I had to go to the main website and look for the link which had a PDF version).

It seems that theBat can't display images not included in the downloaded message! The only way to see the email with full formatting is to open the HTML attachment in a browser.

I can understand why this might be good as an option but it seems like overkill that you can;t read HTML from trusted sources without having to open extra browser pages.

[kimmchii]

It seems that theBat can't display images not included in the downloaded message!

that's undesirable, so what are you going to try next?

how bout Thunderbird?

[Carol Haynes]

I might give Courier a try - I got a free license when they were giving it away a while back and never got round to trying it. (It is still available for free at http://www.rosecitysoftware.com/courier/ so it is worth a look)

Just installed Corier - I quite like the way it works. There are many similarities with theBat on initial use - multiple email accounts/mailboxes (each with multiple email addresses can be set up). Incoming mail on a particular address can be routed to a specific folder. There is built in Junk handling. You have total control over how much HTML is displayed (from none - through blocking specific components - audio, video, pictures, javascript, activeX etc. to complete HTML as received).

There is a full range of filtering options including RegEx.

One of the nice thing is the use of 'templates' for email accounts so that if you have, say , multiple yahoo addresses you can set up a single email account/server set and then use it as a template to quickly enter all the other account details without having to retype all the server details. You can display full headers in the preview window (or an abbreviated version or none at all).

The only things I don't like are:

- the look ... on my screen the icons are tiny (even when set to large) and are 'fuzzy' so it is difficult to see what you are doing. The style is also quite dated.

- it is a bit convoluted to set up (but easy to find your way around once you have played for a few minutes)

- importing is a bit limited (it doesn't work with Outlook, but does with Outlook Express)

- no export function (biggy). You can archive your emails to a text file and a folder of attachments (inc. all the HTML images etc) which can be imported again, but I can't see how you could use this archive in any other app easily.

I have attached a screen shot ...

[JavaJones]

I was at one time considering TheBat! for my own switch from Outlook (still hasn't happened, but I get crashes too). I haven't yet tried TheBat! but I have tinkered with with a few mail apps since in my search for a replacement.

Thunderbird is too simplified and reliant on inconsistent extensions for my taste. I like being able to extend a system with 3rd party addons but I don't want to necessarily *have to*. This is the same reason I prefer Opera over FF. The worst part seems to be that even the extensions system has fairly limited access to what it can do so certain extensions simply *can't* be made. Of course any plugin/extension system has to be limited to some degree, but I'm talking about some pretty unnecessary (as far as I can see) limitations.

Outlook Express doesn't like dealing with my several GB of e-mail. It does most of what I want, surprisingly, but its search is not any better than Outlook, probably worse, and faster search is one of the big reasons I wanted to move away from Outlook. Now that I'm playing with X1 this need is much less but the crashes of Outlook are still cramping my style.

Pegasus Mail I haven't played with enough to really get a solid impression. It seems like a very good system but it's not particularly intuitive for me. Ultimately I just hate the windowed UI approach. I've always hated Eudora for the same reason. It has tabs which makes it better and there is also an actual folder tree with preview pane so I can use it just like Outlook or Thunderbird, but it's clearly not built with that as the primary method of interaction.

Pegasus does seem quite powerful and has the potential to make my e-mail activities more efficient but I frankly don't want to deal with learning a new system at this point. So I guess what I want is something that is either A: an immediate replacement for Outlook, behaving very similarly, but more stable and faster or B: something so intuitive that, despite it being different from Outlook, I just immediately "get" it and love it; this is how it was for me with Opera for example.

Anyway, long story short if TheBat! really can't display linked images in-line then I'm afraid it's not the client for me. I can't believe that really isn't an option somewhere though. That seems ridiculous.

- Oshyan

[Carol Haynes]

I've gone back to Outlook for the time being - theBat isn't for me (shame really - if they get HTML sorted out and import/export options then I may reconsider).

Courier appears to be in limbo but Rose City are still wanting to develop it (they are looking for programmers if anyone is interested in some work). I have emailed them to ask what is going on and put a bid in for a few features in the next version if/when it appears. Again until it has decent import/export functions I think it is a non-starter.

To me an absolute pre-requiste of any email client is that it should be able to export you mail in a format readable by other email programs - and esp. the industry standards like OE and Outlook. They should at least be able to Export! (Courier seems to lack this basic functionality)

[JavaJones]

Agreed, import/export is huge. Most clients do fall down on this requirement though. Even if they advertise good import/export support, it is not always so. Thuderbird doesn't really work with large Outlook .pst's so you have to go through an Outlook Express import first.

- Oshyan

[rjbull]

CarolHaynes,

Take a look at these DC threads:
Geminisoft Pimmy  and related to it  Downloading your Gmail account  also Opera deserves a real try

Allen appears to be DC's resident email client expert    These mostly mention Pimmy, The Bat!, and Opera M2.

There are clients, such as PocoMail.  It seems to be fashionable to dismiss Pegasus, which is a pity; but Pegasus could make it easier to work out how to set up multiple email accounts.

[Cloq]

I switched from Courier to TheBat! primarily because TheBat! supports SSL/TLS authentication and mailbox encryption. That way my username/password and mail data is encrypted both in transmission and on my HD.

Courier has one thing that I really really love, it stores EVERYTHING (config and data) in one file!
Portability/backup has never been easier. 

TheBat! does do an UNIX style export of email. It isn't elegant but it does work... to an extent. It exports all your email in huge block.. as for attachments, I never had that work too well. I usually end up copying the attachments out of my email and saving it elsewhere. Since I don't have the need to switch to another email client, I just leave all attachments in my mail as is.

IF and WHEN courier supports SSL/TLS, I will switch over to it in a heartbeat.

[Carol Haynes]

Thanks, I've retreated to Outlook and cowering in the familiar corner

[Defenestration]

I used to use Outlook Express which came with XP, but have since switched to Thunderbird which I have been using for about a year or so. When I initially switched to Thunderbird I imported my OE mailboxes and mostb but not all the messages/message folders were imported (presumably due to a problem with the TB importer). I'm now considering switching to another e-mail client and was wondering if any of them would allow me to import mailboxes from both OE (I still have the old ones) and Thunderbird, but automatically filter out any duplicate messages (ie. so I would end up with all the messages/folders from OE along with all new messages from TB) ?

Failing that, would it be possible to just import both mailbox formats, and then use some filtering feature to select/delete any duplicate messages ?

BTW, I quite liked TheBat when I tried it a while ago but the UI did not allow you to double-click on the right side of column separators to automatically resize the width of the column to the left, to the widest item in that column. Do the newer versions have this feature ?

[Carol Haynes]

Can you import them backing into OE? Most email clients can import from OE. Not sure if you can avoid duplicates though easily.

If you have MS Office you can import emails from OE into Outlook and I think there is an option to avoid duplicates (can't remember as it has been a long time since I did it). In which case you could imposrt from OE, delete everything in OE and then transfer all your stuff from Thunderbird to OE and then finally import to Outlook without duplicates. You could the delete everything in OE again and then export everything back to OE from Outlook which would leave you with a complete set of emails with no duplicates!

On the other hand it may be just quicker to have duplicates and see if you can find a duplicate remover for OE.

[Defenestration]

I am gradually using more and more e-mail accounts for various purposes. I'm still using Thunderbird at the moment, which handles them without any problems, but it doesn't seem to allow the accounts to be moved up/down in the treeview on the left (ie. they are always shown in the order that the accounts were added).

Does TheBat! allow the accounts to be moved up/down in the treeview on the left ?

Alternatively, does anybody know how to achieve this in Thunderbird ?

[hamradio]

I am gradually using more and more e-mail accounts for various purposes. I'm still using Thunderbird at the moment, which handles them without any problems, but it doesn't seem to allow the accounts to be moved up/down in the treeview on the left (ie. they are always shown in the order that the accounts were added).

Does TheBat! allow the accounts to be moved up/down in the treeview on the left ?

Alternatively, does anybody know how to achieve this in Thunderbird ?

For The Bat! it does via right click menu on account to move and then Move Up/Move Down or select the account you want to move then Shift+Ctrl+Up for Move Up and Shift+Ctrl+Down for Move Down.