Author Topic: 14 year-old boy arrested for creating a digital clock (Read 18,733 times)

wraith808 · « **on:** September 16, 2015, 09:22 PM »

Ahmed Mohamed, 14, arrested over clock mistaken for bomb

Is this how we inspire technical innovation in our youth?

MilesAhead · « **Reply #1 on:** September 16, 2015, 09:47 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on September 16, 2015, 09:22 PM

Ahmed Mohamed, 14, arrested over clock mistaken for bomb

Is this how we inspire technical innovation in our youth?

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Hmm, what if it is a devious plan utilizing compartmentalization? If one has a time bomb and splits it into two components you have the time part and the bomb part. Also by this diabolical play for sympathy the youth has wangled himself an invitation to The White House. I bet The President naively encouraged him to bring the device along. If I was the Secret Service I would focus on the area of the Reflecting Pool for a rendezvous where the two components may be reintegrated.

On the other hand a good way to get shot is to keep your TV remote in your breast pocket. You forget about it and walk outside and Blammo!! Homeland Security takes you out.

tomos · « **Reply #2 on:** September 16, 2015, 10:02 PM »

It's an unfortunate state of affairs. I can understand the frustration, but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.
And if that context is introduced, I think it's going to be unfortunately pretty much Basement material...

nosh · « **Reply #3 on:** September 16, 2015, 11:55 PM »

Quote

but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.

Bingo!

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #4 on:** September 17, 2015, 12:36 AM »

Quote from: tomos on September 16, 2015, 10:02 PM

It's an unfortunate state of affairs. I can understand the frustration, but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.
And if that context is introduced, I think it's going to be unfortunately pretty much Basement material...

And even worse (stairs leading to the basement), is look at his name. And he didn't have the right "marketing". If this had been a "science fair project by a good ol' boy sounding name", he would have been all over "look how smart our kids are!"

wraith808 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 17, 2015, 01:31 AM »

Quote from: nosh on September 16, 2015, 11:55 PM

Quote
but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.

Bingo!

I'd disagree. Looking at the item in question, you can see that there are no explosives. And the original teacher told him "not to show it to anyone" without telling him why. So the original teacher knew, and even after he told the sequence of events, was not consulted. And they took him away in handcuffs.

A little more common sense and a little less alarmism would have defused this situation before it escalated to the point that it did. After all, if he really was an extremist and they really did think it was a problem- why wasn't the school evacuated? Why was the item taken without a EOD specialist being there first? The excuses don't add up.

40hz · « **Reply #6 on:** September 17, 2015, 02:02 AM »

One word: Grandstanding.

This wasn't an overreaction. This was a place called Irving TX suddenly deciding they would 'send a message.' Even if it still isn't all that clear what the message was trying to say.

And now that the expected nationwide support won't be forthcoming, expect to see some self-righteous justifications, convoluted rationalizations, a hefty dose of doublespeak, and the tiniest bit of resentful back pedaling coming out of Irving over the next few days.

wraith808 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 17, 2015, 02:32 AM »

The largest problem I see with technology is the speed of the world. There was a bit with a terribly named product on DriveThruRPG recently. It blew up over the weekend. The company decided to slow things down, take time to download and read the product, and talk to the vendor. They were lambasted that it wasn't down immediately. Everything moves so fast- too fast when you can't let someone sort things out in business hours.

I see the same thing here... one teacher said "ooh, it could be a bomb!" and the ball was rolling at hypersonic speed. No one, at any point, said "Hey, let's slow this down for a minute and think that this is a 14-year old boy, and we're setting an example to all of the students here". In an e-mail they sent to the parents, they said "Talk to your child about what is inappropriate to bring to school." A clock that he created from a circuit board for a school project is therefore "inappropriate"?

Quote from: 40hz on September 17, 2015, 02:02 AM

And now that the expected nationwide support won't be forthcoming, expect to see some self-righteous justifications, convoluted rationalizations, a hefty dose of doublespeak, and the tiniest bit of resentful back pedaling coming out of Irving over the next few days.

I'm getting my popcorn now. Because anything else isn't going to do anything, so I might as well get some use out of the flames as I fiddle... *sigh*

wraith808 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 17, 2015, 03:35 AM »

Not really a basement topic as it refers to tech... and especially since the relocation of the basement link has pretty much turned it into a wasteland.

* wraith808 sighs

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2015, 11:40 AM »

Quote from: wraith808 on September 17, 2015, 01:31 AM

A little more common sense and a little less alarmism would have defused this situation before it escalated to the point that it did. After all, if he really was an extremist and they really did think it was a problem- why wasn't the school evacuated? Why was the item taken without a EOD specialist being there first? The excuses don't add up.

+1000 - Damn Straight. It's pretty fucking sad when the people tasked with teaching our children how to act don't even know how to themselves.

Quote from: 40hz on September 17, 2015, 02:02 AM

One word: Grandstanding.

Sadly true.

Quote from: 40hz on September 17, 2015, 02:02 AM

This wasn't an overreaction. This was a place called Irving TX suddenly deciding they would 'send a message.' Even if it still isn't all that clear what the message was trying to say.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance ... Which these folks have exhibited in spades..

This is more of a fear biting/contagious hysteria type of thing me thinks.

Quote from: 40hz on September 17, 2015, 02:02 AM

And now that the expected nationwide support won't be forthcoming, expect to see some self-righteous justifications, convoluted rationalizations, a hefty dose of doublespeak, and the tiniest bit of resentful back pedaling coming out of Irving over the next few days.

As long as the kid gets support from the masses, I'd say we're on the right track.

Renegade · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2015, 07:47 PM »

Pfft. And some people call *me* paranoid.

wraith808 · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2015, 08:43 PM »

Quote

The police tell local news outlets that while they acknowledge that Mohamed didn't try to perpetrate a bomb hoax, they were also unsatisfied with his explanation.

"He would simply only tell us that it was a clock," police spokesman James McLellan says. "He didn't offer an explanation as to what it was for, why he created this device, why he brought it to school."

WTF?

Perhaps I can help:

Clock : a device other than a watch for indicating or measuring time commonly by means of hands moving on a dial; broadly : any periodic system by which time is measured

tomos · « **Reply #12 on:** September 18, 2015, 08:09 AM »

I feel partially responsible here for this being dumped in the basement (by even suggesting the possibility):

Quote from: tomos on September 16, 2015, 10:02 PM

It's an unfortunate state of affairs. I can understand the frustration, but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.
And if that context is introduced, I think it's going to be unfortunately pretty much Basement material...

Quote from: wraith808 on September 17, 2015, 01:31 AM

Quote
but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.

I'd disagree. Looking at the item in question, you can see that there are no explosives. And the original teacher told him "not to show it to anyone" without telling him why. So the original teacher knew, and even after he told the sequence of events, was not consulted. And they took him away in handcuffs.

A little more common sense and a little less alarmism would have defused this situation before it escalated to the point that it did. After all, if he really was an extremist and they really did think it was a problem- why wasn't the school evacuated? Why was the item taken without a EOD specialist being there first? The excuses don't add up.

you're talking about the details of what happened - all these questions will hopefully be asked enough that it will bring about some change.

But my point was this:
if you look at why this has happened, and happens again and again, you have to look at all those things. The context. The history. The way society/people have chosen to cope/deal with things.

1) why people/a society chooses fear over (I'm unsure here - maybe it's simply that they choose it)
2) why people are afraid of muslims
3) why people are afraid of what is different

these are not easy questions to answer, especially #1 - people have fear, I think it's a case of then finding an outlet for that fear in them. They can let of steam in a semi-officially approved manner (#2) and sleep well without having to really look at WTF is going on inside of themselves...

wraith808 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 18, 2015, 02:32 PM »

Why move things in fear of them becoming problems? Aren't we having the same reactionary mindset in doing so? I remember the day when things were moved to the basement when the conversation starting having a certain turn. Now they're moved when nothing has even happened. And that's just sad. This is a tech issue, and a very real and personal issue to me from my other thread about leaving (it's a hard habit to break). Now, people that have very interesting takes on said issue are excluded, as it's been moved to the place of exclusion. Certain things need to start here. And that's what I thought this was for... a place for discussion of religion and politics and philosophy on a tech board. But now, it seems like it's becoming a dumping ground for things that might turn bad, even if they are tech issues.

Moving onto the topic at hand:

Quote from: tomos on September 18, 2015, 08:09 AM

I feel partially responsible here for this being dumped in the basement (by even suggesting the possibility):
Quote from: tomos on September 16, 2015, 10:02 PM
It's an unfortunate state of affairs. I can understand the frustration, but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.
And if that context is introduced, I think it's going to be unfortunately pretty much Basement material...

Quote from: wraith808 on September 17, 2015, 01:31 AM
Quote
but if you ignore the context of recent history, you're just leaving out too much.

I'd disagree. Looking at the item in question, you can see that there are no explosives. And the original teacher told him "not to show it to anyone" without telling him why. So the original teacher knew, and even after he told the sequence of events, was not consulted. And they took him away in handcuffs.

A little more common sense and a little less alarmism would have defused this situation before it escalated to the point that it did. After all, if he really was an extremist and they really did think it was a problem- why wasn't the school evacuated? Why was the item taken without a EOD specialist being there first? The excuses don't add up.

you're talking about the details of what happened - all these questions will hopefully be asked enough that it will bring about some change.

But my point was this:
if you look at why this has happened, and happens again and again, you have to look at all those things. The context. The history. The way society/people have chosen to cope/deal with things.

1) why people/a society chooses fear over (I'm unsure here - maybe it's simply that they choose it)
2) why people are afraid of muslims
3) why people are afraid of what is different

these are not easy questions to answer, especially #1 - people have fear, I think it's a case of then finding an outlet for that fear in them. They can let of steam in a semi-officially approved manner (#2) and sleep well without having to really look at WTF is going on inside of themselves...

And are our personal fears any excuse for visiting harm on others? They're our personal fears, and we should deal with them personally, IMO, rather than dragging others into our own psychosis.

We as a society need to take responsibility for ourselves. Full and total. And take some kind of personal accountability for what our decisions cause. It's one of the big things that force us to learn. When there are no consequences to our bad actions and the harm that we inflict, people tend to overlook them.

tomos · « **Reply #14 on:** September 18, 2015, 02:42 PM »

^ I agree completely wraith.
Note that I'm not blaming society -- I'm looking at it. Also (as I'm sure you're well aware), in order to take on this 'personal accountability', we will along the way have to reject ideas that are encouraged and approved by society and / or government.

EDIT//
I think it's a sort of a circular thing - if people take on the personal accountability - and reject dodgy ideas that are actively or passively part of society, everything improves.
OTOH if everyone drifts, then things tend to get worse rather than better.
So, I believe that both aspects - individual, and society, are of importance.

40hz · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2015, 09:15 PM »

If that's what Ronnie truly believed, why wasn't he prosecuted or impeached for Iran-Contra when he knowingly and blatantly broke the law? Or for that other time when...oh wait! That's right. Silly me. That's altogether different. He's was President when he did that.

And now that I suddenly realized this is in the basement, I'll bow out of the conversation. Because I still don't do basement. Later!

tomos · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2015, 09:43 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on September 18, 2015, 09:15 PM

And now that I suddenly realized this is in the basement, I'll bow out of the conversation. Because I still don't do basement. Later!

now we know you read it though

40hz · « **Reply #17 on:** September 19, 2015, 01:30 PM »

^Only because in this instance I was curious as to why this tread got moved here so quickly to begin with. And after reading through it all again, I can't really see why for any reason other than a preemptive stirke to avoid potential hurt feelings.. Which is a bit of an evolution from how this worked in the past. Previously it seemed that there needed to be an actual escalating situation that was blatantly obvious to everyone before a thread got thrown down the basement stairs. Usually that happened when tempers ran high and civility went out the window. This time it seems more like a case of "we don't talk about things like this around here." So to me it's an obvious case of intervention rather than remediation.

But it's not my website, and "So it goes." You play by the rules of the house or you go play elsewhere.

(And if I did break my own rule just now, that's cool too. Sometimes a situation requires some flex in the interests of clarity. Even 40hz has learned a thing or two over the last year. So there!!

)

tomos · « **Reply #18 on:** September 19, 2015, 02:02 PM »

^ hmm, I dont think there are 'rules' about this kind of thing - i.e. I wouldnt be so quick to put it in a box and tie a ribbon round it...
Mouser has made that clear elsewhere:

Quote from: mouser on September 18, 2015, 09:40 PM

the decision of whether a post should be moved to the basement is made by me often based on a quick and imperfect gut feeling -- and you guys need to help me figure out when i move something that i shouldn't have, so i can move it back.

If I jump the gun and move something you think there should/could be a useful wider discussion about, please do let me know -- sometimes i jump the gun -- perhaps most of the time(?).

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #19 on:** September 19, 2015, 08:34 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on September 17, 2015, 08:43 PM

Quote
The police tell local news outlets that while they acknowledge that Mohamed didn't try to perpetrate a bomb hoax, they were also unsatisfied with his explanation.

"He would simply only tell us that it was a clock," police spokesman James McLellan says. "He didn't offer an explanation as to what it was for, why he created this device, why he brought it to school."

WTF?

Perhaps I can help:

Clock : a device other than a watch for indicating or measuring time commonly by means of hands moving on a dial; broadly : any periodic system by which time is measured

Oh FFS ... Kids are kids. (To me) the only thing here that would look suspicious as hell is if the kid actually did have a plausible cover story/response to that line of questioning. The fact that the kid just said "it's a clock" and switched to stunned silence, says to me that - as is appropriate for his age - he had no idea how to process how fast/far this was being blown out of proportion.

Fuck man... Back in the 70's I had a teacher ask me to bring in (e.g. to high school) a custom made 10" bladed sub-hilted fighting knife. Because he had an interest in fine cutlery, and he wanted to see a sample of my work. But if that were to happen today...I guess we'd have both ended up in freaking jail. Because it's become a crime for a teacher to take an actual interest in their students.

mouser · « **Reply #20 on:** September 20, 2015, 03:43 PM »

This thread was originally moved to the basement area in anticipation of it degenerating into a political back and forth.
After some discussions we have decided to be less trigger-happy about moving threads just because it appears they *might* go off the rails.

You can help us keep threads from having to be moved off the main forum by helping us keep threads like this from becoming political back-and-forths with the same people making the same points over and over. If it's a controversial political topic, make your point and then move on and let others have their say!

Renegade · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2015, 08:42 PM »

I just saw this.

HAHAHAHA~!

Renegade · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2015, 08:58 AM »

A bit late, but an engineer freaking out about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNSt1GCVqyU

MilesAhead · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2015, 12:53 PM »

I'm surprised he didn't do time for it.

wraith808 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2015, 03:39 PM »

From the comments on the video:

Quote

This hits home for me. I had a situation 6 years ago (15yo)when I was in computer class and I was making a blueprint for a portable solar speaker after I finished my assignments. The teacher in his infinite wisdom takes a screenshot as "evidence" and reports it to the principal, and they both think it is a bomb. They call the police to escort me to the county jail for my dad to pick me up. I was expelled and 'sentenced' to alternative school. I took my GED test after a year of waiting to turn 16 to qualify for one. I'm now an associate in mechatronics and I want to continue working with electronics and robotics.