@wraith - I think I'll just continue to stick to Linux for my own use. It does what I want. And there isn't much in the way of strings attached so long as you avoid Ubuntu.

The only reason I still bother with Windows at all is that my clients use it.  

Quote from: app103 on February 13, 2015, 01:55 AM

Quote from: wraith808 on February 13, 2015, 01:37 AM

Quote from: app103 on February 13, 2015, 01:13 AM

The crapware that gets bundled with things like Java is a completely different discussion, because that stuff does get detected and removed by anti-spyware.

It actually doesn't.  The ask toolbar isn't considered to be malware, at least by any of the scanners that I use.  At most, it's flagged as questionable.  The official Java installer installs the Ask toolbar.  And Oracle is just as large as the other players. And no one says anything about it.

Also, Oracle didn't make the Ask toolbar, while Apple did make iTunes and Siri, Google did make the Google toolbar and the Chrome browser, and Microsoft did make Cortana, and a ton of other crap that I can't recall at this moment.

While Oracle can be blamed for bundling questionable software and with the way they present it in their installer, they can't be blamed for what the Ask toolbar actually contains or does.

Should anti-malware prevent you from installing Java or deactivate/remove Java if it is found on your system? Or just the Ask toolbar, which is not Oracle's product? That is the difference.

I really don't think there's a difference.  They made a *deal* to bundle it.  Which means they make revenue from it.  Which makes them culpable in my opinion.  Sourcing the product is just semantics.

IMO it's worse that they didn't make it. By bundling it with their software and defaulting it to opt-out rather than opt-in, they're surreptitiously getting it installed on people's computers and implicitly endorsing the Ask toolbar and the shady tactics they use to get it installed on your system.

It isn't, "Hey, we made another product that we think is so great we're sure you'll like it."

Rather, it's, "Let's hope they don't notice we're installing something we have nothing to do with so we can profit off them while infecting them with mal/spyware."

Quote from: Deozaan on February 14, 2015, 02:59 AM

Rather, it's, "Let's hope they don't notice we're installing something we have nothing to do with so we can profit off them while infecting them with mal/spyware."

Agreed. However they do now offer a - granted quite poorly documented - setting that globally refuses the install of any/all "sponsor offers".

What is that setting?  I have to have Java for work, so would love to know about that.

^ You are the man!  Thanks!