Kidney stones and Beer!

[Cuffy]

I subscribe to health newsletters.

One has a report that kidney stones can get as big as ping pong balls!!!

I had a friend that passed some kidney stones.

He was NOT a happy camper.

Today I bring big tidings and great joy!!!!!!

"On the other hand, people who reported drinking beer and wine frequently had a 41 percent and 33 percent lower risk of developing stones respectively than people who did not consume the alcoholic beverages."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sugary-drinks-might-raise-kidney-stone-risk-but-beer-may-help/

(don't thank me, please, .... it was nothing...

[Edvard]

The two best things you can do for kidney stones is stay hydrated and avoid eating too much spinach and salt.  I had a 2.1mm kidney stone and it felt like I had been stabbed with an elephant tusk.  It may be that some by-product from fermentation in wine and beer have an effect on kidney stone formation, but I'd like to see more research, especially as there are a few different types of stones you can get.

I don't imbibe, so I just keep myself well-hydrated. 

[Stoic Joker]

"On the other hand, people who reported drinking beer and wine frequently had a 41 percent and 33 percent lower risk of developing stones respectively than people who did not consume the alcoholic beverages."

Shit, in that case I'll never get one.

[Cuffy]

When I read that newsletter and saw "pingpong ball size stones" my eyes popped, I remembered my friend, some cold sweats, lots of screaming, and I wondered what they had prescribed to make him pass his stones.
My imagination got there first and the only thing that came to mind was a quarter pound of Comp-C and a long fuse!
seems like a good time to get some facts.....?
Google turned up the bit about the beer and I thought the tenant brewmasters here would appreciate the ammunition when mama screamed "quit drinking that damned home brew, you're gonna get kidney stones". It's always nice to have an extra clip of ammo!
.. besides, it's always nice to share........

[Cuffy]

Edvard,

Thanks for your input here........ no salt and no spinach gives me some ammo. My doc took me off salt years ago because of high blood pressure. But the spinach, she's (I've got a female doctor) got that at the top of the list for my diet. Maybe with this for ammo I can't cut out the spinach.  Maybe not though.... she's into this you are what you eat bit, supplements, fish oil capsules, yecch. Some of those things aren't fit for human consumption, I don't think.
I'm thinking of changing doctors anyway. With all the chit-chat about colon problems and  prostate problems I chose a female doctor when I had to change the last time. Females usually have smaller hands and shorter fingers so it was a no-brainer for me. Keep as comfortable as possible was the name of the game and I thought I'd made a good choice.
Now I'm not so sure! Initially all these exams were part of an annual physical but then she started scheduling a prostate exam once a month. Now we're up to once a week!
I'm just not sure how much longer I can stand the gaffe???

[Edvard]

Hehe, whatever floats your boat... 

As far as the spinach goes, it's only really applicable if you like and eat spinach a lot, or are susceptible to kidney stones (once you get one, your probability goes WAAAY up for another one).  I actually enjoy spinach, and it really is good for you otherwise.  The reason my doctor told me to avoid it is because spinach is naturally high in Oxalates, and most (90% or so) kidney stones are Calcium Oxalate.  He told me other foods have higher than average Oxalates, but spinach leads the curve by a large margin.  See here:
http://www.webmd.com/kidney-stones/tc/foods-high-in-oxylate-topic-overview
Notice how spinach is mentioned twice?  And he told me nothing about beer...

So, as long as your doctor thinks you're hydrated fine, then she's not likely to have you drop the spinach, but whatever you do, drink as much water as anything else, and you'll probably be fine; spinach, beer, and all... 

[app103]

If you have had kidney stones and want to prevent getting stones again, here is some good advice:

• Increase fluids (if beer helps you do that, then mission accomplished),
• Decrease sodium intake (Sodium causes the kidneys to excrete more calcium into the urine. High concentrations of calcium in the urine combine with oxalate and phosphorus to form stones. Reducing sodium intake is preferred to reducing calcium intake.),
• Increase calcium intake (Calcium in the digestive tract binds to oxalate from food and keeps it from entering the blood, and then the urinary tract, where it can form stones) But get it from food, rather than supplements, since calcium supplements have been linked to increased risk of kidney stones.
• Do not consume excessive amounts of protein. (A diet rich in purines—substances found in animal protein such as meats, fish, and shellfish—may increase uric acid in urine. If uric acid becomes concentrated in the urine, it can settle and form a stone by itself or along with calcium.)

If the issue is calcium oxalate stones, these 9 foods are the only ones known to increase oxalate in the urine:

• beets
• spinach
• rhubarb
• strawberries
• nuts
• chocolate
• tea
• wheat bran
• and all dry beans (fresh, canned, or cooked), excluding lima and green beans.

Try not consuming any of those without some dairy at the same time (ex: creamed spinach, milk in your tea, strawberries & yogurt, beans & cheese, etc.).

Some studies suggest citrus drinks like lemonade and orange juice protect against kidney stones because they contain citrate, which stops crystals from growing into stones. It's better to get your vitamin C from citrus than in a pill, since too much vitamin C (ascorbic acid) can also increase the amount of oxalate in your urine, increasing the risk of kidney stone formation.

Additionally,

• Struvite stones result from kidney infections. Eliminating infected stones from the urinary tract and staying infection-free can prevent more struvite stones.
• Cystine stones result from a genetic disorder that causes cystine to leak through the kidneys and into the urine, forming crystals that tend to accumulate into stones. Not sure if you can do anything to prevent this, if you have this disorder, other than increasing your fluids and making sure that includes citrus beverages.

http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/Kudiseases/pubs/kidneystonediet/index.aspx
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/urology-kidney/diseases-conditions/kidney-stones-oxalate-controlled-diet.aspx

[Renegade]

"On the other hand, people who reported drinking beer and wine frequently had a 41 percent and 33 percent lower risk of developing stones respectively than people who did not consume the alcoholic beverages."

Shit, in that case I'll never get one.

Make that one more! 

Hic!

In this lifetime or the next!

Actually, I think I've probably had enough to drink for a few lifetimes already...

[Cuffy]

We all appreciate what you guys are doing in an effort to stamp out kidney stones? Thanks again

Kidney stones?
I don't have, nor have I ever had, to my knowledge, any stones.

I saw in the newsletter "pingpong ball size".....
friend in the past........ passing a couple of pingball balls??
hey wot!
it'll take C-4
led to Google.....
led to beer...
led to resident brewmasters...
they are happy to read the numbers...Kidney stones are on the way out!
end of story.
Sorry if I misled anyone.....hard to wrap my head around passing a couple of pingpong balls

[Edvard]

hard to wrap my head around passing a couple of pingpong balls

You wouldn't.  Stones of that size are VERY uncommon and would require surgery.  The ureter from your kidney to your bladder is quite small, as in really, really tiny.  Which is why my own 2.1mm stone made me feel like I was passing a horse.  Once it gets into your bladder, small stones pass easily the rest of the way.

[Cuffy]

C-4 would work!
Guess that's not recommended though............. that would be painful too!

[nogojoe]

Just been though the painful process of having a stone diagnosed in one of the kidneys.
The painful part is the stone telling you its there. CT scan showed a 8mm x 6mm stone "trying" to pass through the
ureter.
Had a stent inserted into the ureter to open it to 5 mm and the urologist hope that with a magic pill which may dissolve the stone to allow it to pass through the stent.
He said that they work on the thesis of multiples of ten.
If you have a stone that is 2mm  take that number away from 10 (2 from 10=8) you have an 80% chance of passing it naturally.
An 8mm stone gives you a 20% chance of passing it which he halved again for some reason I forget he said in my case.
He's giving it a month and then may blast with laser or ultrasound, the stent being there to help pass the fragments.
He said that 40% of stones if left a month will be passed without the patient knowing it,may be lucky to hear a ping in the toilet bowl.
My chances look slim though.

[Cuffy]

Good luck with it!

I hadn't heard of kidney stones since my friend went through the experience about 40 years ago. When the blurb in WebMD indicated how big they can get I almost passed out. Wow!