Author Topic: Switzerland-based ProtonMail, yet another secure email service (Read 55,183 times)

IainB · « **Reply #25 on:** June 22, 2014, 04:18 AM »

@Renegade: Oh, sorry. I see what you meant, now. I wonder whether just swapping one religio-political ideology and system - one of government - for another - one of general anarchy - would be likely to generate much the same result as the above revolutions?
It would be interesting to find out. You'd probably need to architect the thing with everyone's agreement though, otherwise a lot of innocent people will probably have to die in the revolutionary process.
A new kind of "new world order"?
Hmm...

Renegade · « **Reply #26 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:12 AM »

Quote from: IainB on June 22, 2014, 04:18 AM

@Renegade: Oh, sorry. I see what you meant, now. I wonder whether just swapping one religio-political ideology and system - one of government - for another - one of general anarchy - would be likely to generate much the same result as the above revolutions?
It would be interesting to find out. You'd probably need to architect the thing with everyone's agreement though, otherwise a lot of innocent people will probably have to die in the revolutionary process.
A new kind of "new world order"?
Hmm...

I think you're missing the point I've tried to make in a few places - that the initiation of aggression is never acceptable. If we actually held that principle, we would have anarchy, which is apolitical.

http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Principle_of_non-aggression
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

More on that topic all over the place.

Renegade · « **Reply #27 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:22 AM »

Looks like Protonmail just got hosed by Paypal:

https://protonmail.ch/blog/paypal-freezes-protonmail-campaign-funds/

Quote

Paypal Freezes ProtonMail Campaign Funds

July 1, 2014 Andy Yen News & Articles
This morning, we received an email and telephone call from PayPal notifying us that our account has been restricted pending further review. At this time, it is not possible for ProtonMail to receive or send funds through PayPal. No attempt was made by PayPal to contact us before freezing our account, and no notice was given.

2014-06-30_202409

Like many others, we have all heard the PayPal horror stories, but didn’t actually think it would happen to us on our campaign since PayPal promised, very recently, to improve their policies. Unfortunately, it seems those were hollow promises as ProtonMail is now the latest in a long string of crowdfunding campaigns to be hit with account freezes. (For examples, just look here, here, and here).

While the $275,000 ProtonMail has raised in the past 2 weeks is a large amount, it pales in comparison to many other crowdfunding campaigns that have raised sums in excess of $1,000,000 so we can’t help but wonder why ProtonMail was singled out. When we pressed the PayPal representative on the phone for further details, he questioned whether ProtonMail is legal and if we have government approval to encrypt emails. We are not sure which government PayPal is referring to, but even the 4th Amendment of the US constitution guarantees:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures….”

It seems PayPal is trying to come up with ANY excuse they can to prevent us from receiving funds.

2014-06-30_205105

As a result, we have disabled PayPal as a payment option on our campaign page, but it is still possible contribute with credit card and Bitcoin. Please help us get the word out there as by bringing attention to this issue, we may be able to convince PayPal to do the right thing. And if anybody from PayPal is listening, we’ve emailed and called today, please get in touch with us as soon as possible.

Lots of outrage from people:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/duplicates/29it54/after_raising_275000_in_2_weeks_paypal_freezes/

Privacy requires government approval? Seriously?

Edvard · « **Reply #28 on:** July 01, 2014, 04:56 AM »

Wellllll... now we know of at least one more company that is securely in the spook's pocket. I mean, they wouldn't ask if it weren't a concern, right?. And it wouldn't be a concern unless...

I'll let you flip on that light bulb yourself.

IainB · « **Reply #29 on:** July 01, 2014, 07:35 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on July 01, 2014, 04:12 AM

Quote from: IainB on June 22, 2014, 04:18 AM
@Renegade: Oh, sorry. I see what you meant, now. I wonder whether just swapping one religio-political ideology and system - one of government - for another - one of general anarchy - would be likely to generate much the same result as the above revolutions?
It would be interesting to find out. You'd probably need to architect the thing with everyone's agreement though, otherwise a lot of innocent people will probably have to die in the revolutionary process.
A new kind of "new world order"?
Hmm...
______________________________________________
I think you're missing the point I've tried to make in a few places - that the initiation of aggression is never acceptable. If we actually held that principle, we would have anarchy, which is apolitical.
http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Principle_of_non-aggression
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle
More on that topic all over the place.

I did understand the point. The definition of anarchy that you are using apparently includes the principle of non-agression.

Renegade · « **Reply #30 on:** July 01, 2014, 07:43 AM »

Quote from: IainB on July 01, 2014, 07:35 AM

I did understand the point. The definition of anarchy that you are using apparently includes the principle of non-agression.

Yes. It was this part that made me think that you'd misinterpreted me:

Quote from: IainB on June 22, 2014, 04:18 AM

You'd probably need to architect the thing with everyone's agreement though, otherwise a lot of innocent people will probably have to die in the revolutionary process.

Renegade · « **Reply #31 on:** July 01, 2014, 08:00 AM »

Quote from: Edvard on July 01, 2014, 04:56 AM

Wellllll... now we know of at least one more company that is securely in the spook's pocket. I mean, they wouldn't ask if it weren't a concern, right?. And it wouldn't be a concern unless...

I'll let you flip on that light bulb yourself.

Yup. No coffin nails quite yet, but...

Top 3 search results from StartPage.com:

http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/12/11/bfp-breaking-news-omidyars-paypal-corporation-said-to-be-implicated-in-withheld-nsa-documents/

http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/10/nsa-evil/

http://www.infowars.com/is-paypals-nsa-involvement-being-covered-up/

All from last year. No solid proof, but... c'mon... It's looking pretty obvious.

Quote from: Edvard on July 01, 2014, 04:56 AM

And it wouldn't be a concern unless...

5,000 Years of History Shows that Mass Spying Is Always Aimed at Crushing Dissent

Also:

500 Years of History Shows that Mass Spying Is Always Aimed at Crushing Dissent

Protonmail is going to need some good luck. It's in for a fight.

IainB · « **Reply #32 on:** July 01, 2014, 08:26 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on July 01, 2014, 07:43 AM

Quote from: IainB on July 01, 2014, 07:35 AM
I did understand the point. The definition of anarchy that you are using apparently includes the principle of non-agression.
Yes. It was this part that made me think that you'd misinterpreted me:
Quote from: IainB on June 22, 2014, 04:18 AM
You'd probably need to architect the thing with everyone's agreement though, otherwise a lot of innocent people will probably have to die in the revolutionary process.

Sorry, I did make a fuller response but it got zapped in this cruddy editing window and I don't have the inclination to tediously rewrite it.
Suffice it to say that the point I was trying too make was that history would seem to indicate that a religo-political ideology "A" which includes the principle of non-aggression and which is thus not strongly reinforced by authorised/mandated violence and aggression, and which at the same time presumes to conflict with an established and more strongly reinforced (i.e., with authorised/mandated violence and aggression) religo-political ideology "B", is unlikely to get very far.
There will likely be violence/aggression/bloodshed, probably caused mainly by members of "B", against "A".

"Occupy Wall Street" etc. and university students' passive demonstrations (remember the pepper-spraying cop?), would probably be examples of that. Sort of manifestations of tribalism.
The status quo can tend to be fiercely protected by the establishment at times of challenge.

Tuxman · « **Reply #33 on:** July 01, 2014, 10:57 AM »

"Secure". Sure.

IainB · « **Reply #34 on:** July 01, 2014, 02:12 PM »

Quote from: Tuxman on July 01, 2014, 10:57 AM

"Secure". Sure.

+1

Renegade · « **Reply #35 on:** July 02, 2014, 11:08 AM »

@IainB - Completely off topic

Regarding:

Quote from: IainB on June 22, 2014, 04:18 AM

You'd probably need to architect the thing with everyone's agreement though, otherwise a lot of innocent people will probably have to die in the revolutionary process.

A much more articulate bit on that by Gary North (source):

Quote

The secret of liberty is not revolution; the secret of liberty is to de-fund the existing centralized order.

An interesting piece there by him. When I read that, I immediately though of you and this thread here.

IainB · « **Reply #36 on:** July 02, 2014, 04:19 PM »

@Renegade: Good article. Thanks. Hope he is proven right by events.

IainB · « **Reply #37 on:** July 10, 2014, 03:29 AM »

Maybe the author of the Hunger Games book series should write in something about secure email services - and the need for them - e.g., such as Proton Mail...

Quote

The Latest Hunger Games Teaser Trailer Should Excite Libertarians
Robby Soave|Jul. 9, 2014 2:41 pm

The Mockingjay lives!

That's the message of the second teaser trailer for The Hunger Games: Mockingjay — Part 1, which depicts anti-government rebels hacking a propaganda transmission circulated by the creepy central government.

The forthcoming installment of The Hunger Games movies—which were adapted from the best-selling book series by Suzanne Collins—should excite libertarians. It preaches a fundamentally libertarian message of the inherent evils of centralized government, excessive taxation, slavery, and police brutality, and features freedom fighters motivated by self-ownership and local autonomy.

The series is hugely popular across all age demographics, but especially among kids and teenagers. It can't be a a bad thing that so many young people now have a Harry Potter-esque reverence for Katniss Everdeen, a protagonist whose message to the government is essentially "you don't own me."

Watch the latest trailer below. The previous trailer is available here.

Edvard · « **Reply #38 on:** August 24, 2014, 10:57 PM »

Just got my email and set up account today. Let's see if my door gets kicked down...

wraith808 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 08, 2014, 10:39 PM »

Well, after getting setup... I see that this is not meant as your primary e-mail. At least not at 100MB and 1000 messages/month...?

rgdot · « **Reply #40 on:** September 08, 2014, 11:18 PM »

Message per month limit?

Free or otherwise that's just silly, sorry but it is.

wraith808 · « **Reply #41 on:** September 09, 2014, 12:19 AM »

I thought both were truthfully... the criminally small space and the messages per month.

Edvard · « **Reply #42 on:** September 09, 2014, 12:38 AM »

Quote from: wraith808 on September 08, 2014, 10:39 PM

Well, after getting setup... I see that this is not meant as your primary e-mail. At least not at 100MB and 1000 messages/month...?

Considering how many people actually use encrypted mail as their primary... :shrug:

That said, yeah it doesn't seem like a whole lot, although I doubt I get more than 300 emails a month from my regular email, and I'm signed up to at least 5 subscriptions, plus Facebook and G+ notifications. Maybe 5 messages a month through the email I give out to family and friends... maybe that's saying something.

wraith808 · « **Reply #43 on:** September 09, 2014, 01:04 AM »

Quote from: Edvard on September 09, 2014, 12:38 AM

Quote from: wraith808 on September 08, 2014, 10:39 PM
Well, after getting setup... I see that this is not meant as your primary e-mail. At least not at 100MB and 1000 messages/month...?

Considering how many people actually use encrypted mail as their primary... :shrug:

That said, yeah it doesn't seem like a whole lot, although I doubt I get more than 300 emails a month from my regular email, and I'm signed up to at least 5 subscriptions, plus Facebook and G+ notifications. Maybe 5 messages a month through the email I give out to family and friends... maybe that's saying something.

On another end of the scale, I get more than 300 a day.

Edvard · « **Reply #44 on:** May 11, 2015, 05:09 AM »

Well, I got my invite email, we'll see how this goes.
https://blog.lavaboom.com/lavaboom-rolls-out/

First look:
Nice web UI (no, really, it's pretty slick, if rather Metro-y)
1GB storage
No emails-per-day limit as far as I can see.

wraith808 · « **Reply #45 on:** August 20, 2015, 07:23 PM »

ProtonMail goes open source with ProtonMail 2.0

https://blog.protonmail.ch/protonmail-secure-email-open-source/

IainB · « **Reply #46 on:** August 20, 2015, 09:52 PM »

^^ Yes, I saw that too.
I made a "request for invite". Making a "request for invite" doesn't seem to get responded to though. Message says they are maxed out on invites, or something.
It's a bit opaque. I wonder how many users they actually have, or if it's all a sham? Probably never be told.

wraith808 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 20, 2015, 10:19 PM »

Quote from: IainB on August 20, 2015, 09:52 PM

^^ Yes, I saw that too.
I made a "request for invite". Making a "request for invite" doesn't seem to get responded to though. Message says they are maxed out on invites, or something.
It's a bit opaque. I wonder how many users they actually have, or if it's all a sham? Probably never be told.

I have an account, but the prior restrictions made me toss it when they originally opened, and the fact that the interface was archaic, and very much slow.

It seems better now. Did you request for an invite recently? I have a link for immediate account creation with 500MB of storage. I'll PM it to you.

Sparky484848 · « **Reply #48 on:** November 13, 2015, 07:02 PM »

Lavaboom was under criminal investigation, so was the CEO or so it was rumoured, so i guess Germany is not so safe

, anyway the company went to the wall and the technology soon acquired by Invacio, just got my invite, they are or so it appears not going in the same direction, they are using the system as a spring board external application for e-2-e calls, video and messaging, mail just being one of the systems.

They are in open-instant signup, the company is well financed according to crunch-base and a 2 year company already, based in HK, BVI and Switzerland, the data side is Switzerland, it appears they set up for expansion covering all legal loop holes, the team is German, British, Indian, Thai, Chinese, Spanish and Canadian behind the development.

https://invmail.io/ signup here : https://mail.invmail.io/secure

Video : https://vimeo.com/142798676 images from their site and twitter.

Edvard · « **Reply #49 on:** November 18, 2015, 03:19 AM »

Well... damn.