Author Topic: WinXP is officially dead! (Read 80,965 times)

dr_andus · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2014, 11:01 PM »

I haven't turned on my XP netbook for a couple of weeks, and now I'm wondering what the best thing to do is. Should I disable the automatic update the next time I turn it on or should I keep installing whatever updates have been or may still be released in the near future?

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2014, 11:29 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on April 08, 2014, 09:43 PM

So... how long do they support a 12 year old operating system? Does it matter that they don't support windows 95 anymore? Or Windows ME? Or... god forbid, Windows for Workgroups 3.11?

This one feels different to me. Vista didn't help so that XP became the only system back when vendors really had to define their businesses we see today, and we've seen a couple posts about "systems that can't change". (And The Economy is wrecking me so I *can't* change!) But I quasi felt then and sorta feel today that "computing was younger and exciting back then, but we also knew the lifespans were shorter where the hardware would push us first."

Fast forward, see my long post, with the correct money for quality spent, I built a comp like a tank and my *monitor* is going to die first! So to me the correct equation is more like "Microsoft is this huge behemoth. All they have to do is spend medium-few engineers just patching bugs, while the other 80% go towards building all their "fizzy new Windows 8 Metro/Modern disasters". In other words, quietly keep your "Geezer customers" happy and then see if you can *lure* them to your newest toy. But we're already seeing in some quarters that Win8 is *another* disaster. So they're using this tactic just to pressure customers. (Aka Oh look, why not Create Jobs and hire a few more bug-fixers while the rest of the team is working as hard as they can to alienate everyone?)

As I have posted elsewhere, I am hoping their new Engineering based CEO will really get in the trenches, listen to *all* the customers, then uncork a stunning new Windows 9 plus tweaks that makes the entire tech world sit up and go "Holy Cow, gawd forbid I actually *want* that!" Plus it gives us a couple more years of juicy hardware development, and then to me *that's* the sweet spot that creates sales. This End of Life approach is just jarring esp because the "emergency backup" OS is already one level back and MS has warned they "only support two" and they're trying to speed up their cycles.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2014, 11:34 PM »

Quote from: dr_andus on April 08, 2014, 11:01 PM

I haven't turned on my XP netbook for a couple of weeks, and now I'm wondering what the best thing to do is. Should I disable the automatic update the next time I turn it on or should I keep installing whatever updates have been or may still be released in the near future?

Quick guess (and prob part wrong!) is there are no "mainline" updates, so get whatever you can right up until today, plus check if MsSecEssentials is up to date, and do your Spring Cleaning on the year's worth of Malware, then park it again with a plan to be 10% more careful not to explore too far afield with plugins.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2014, 11:36 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on April 08, 2014, 10:13 PM

It may really more like:

Microsoft will continue to provide support for governments and large institutions to keep large numbers of XP systems safe from being reformatted and having Linux installed on them for the next few years until it gets its head out of its butt and makes Windows 8 look and work just like Windows 7 does.

Going in reverse order, that's what I'm really hoping the new CEO does.

Meanwhile if I ever saw a business opportunity, I'd just resell establish a channel to re-push the official updates for free vs page hit revenue!

wraith808 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2014, 11:40 PM »

Quote from: app103 on April 08, 2014, 10:25 PM

And if you want to see what the future of XP holds, ask the 2k users that didn't upgrade, what their main issues are:

1) trying to run an older OS on newer hardware and trying to find drivers that work, or
2) trying to run newer software on the older OS, or
3) being restricted to older browsers which do not support newer features so accessing things like Flash or YouTube no longer work.

They are not crying about security problems. #2 & #3 were my main issues with running WinME, back in 2008, and would most likely still be my main issues if I were to take that PC out of retirement, with an entirely different issue not even on that list, if I were to try to get it online via anything but dialup. (same issue I had back in 2008, having to replace a combo modem & soundcard with both a NIC & soundcard via a bridge board soldered into an ISA slot, for which the PCI slots on it are disabled at the hardware level, by the manufacturer, leaving only 1 working ISA slot on the board to work with. If I could get past that, I'd likely then have to deal with issue #1)

This. Very eloquently stated.

Shades · « **Reply #30 on:** April 09, 2014, 01:05 AM »

Lately a thought entered my head.

Now that Windows is much more restrictive and uses more and more the policy 'our way or the highway' regarding the installation and managing of software, it appears to me that there is now more or less one way to do things on your system.

This makes computing more stable and at first view, safe.

Until that way is breached, that is. And I have been long enough around MS software that I dare to say that this not an 'if' but a 'when'.

True, Windows XP is tricky to secure because of all the (well documented) holes, but the one way fits all method of doing things has it's drawbacks as well. In both cases the (not so savvy) end user will be damned.

So, I don't have much to say against (savvy) people that can't or won't upgrade. And I'll continue to pretend all is well in lala-land, also known as Windows Server 2012 for the time being.

dr_andus · « **Reply #31 on:** April 09, 2014, 09:27 AM »

Quote from: TaoPhoenix on April 08, 2014, 11:34 PM

Quote from: dr_andus on April 08, 2014, 11:01 PM
I haven't turned on my XP netbook for a couple of weeks, and now I'm wondering what the best thing to do is. Should I disable the automatic update the next time I turn it on or should I keep installing whatever updates have been or may still be released in the near future?

Quick guess (and prob part wrong!) is there are no "mainline" updates, so get whatever you can right up until today

Thanks, TaoPhoenix, but I heard someone mention a nag screen. Wasn't that included in yesterday's update? I'd prefer to avoid that one, if I can.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #32 on:** April 09, 2014, 10:56 AM »

Quote from: dr_andus on April 09, 2014, 09:27 AM

Quote from: TaoPhoenix on April 08, 2014, 11:34 PM
Quote from: dr_andus on April 08, 2014, 11:01 PM
I haven't turned on my XP netbook for a couple of weeks, and now I'm wondering what the best thing to do is. Should I disable the automatic update the next time I turn it on or should I keep installing whatever updates have been or may still be released in the near future?

Quick guess (and prob part wrong!) is there are no "mainline" updates, so get whatever you can right up until today

Thanks, TaoPhoenix, but I heard someone mention a nag screen. Wasn't that included in yesterday's update? I'd prefer to avoid that one, if I can.

Turn off Automatic updates - there won't be any now since MS turned off the updates except for the malware/scareware nag screen.

If you use MSE you should be able to use the built in update regularly to keep it up to date (but don't expect software updates). Better option is to dump it and download something else - for once I would argue a full suite would be in order including a good firewall and learn how to use it.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #33 on:** April 09, 2014, 11:50 AM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on April 09, 2014, 10:56 AM

Quote from: dr_andus on April 09, 2014, 09:27 AM
Quote from: TaoPhoenix on April 08, 2014, 11:34 PM
Quote from: dr_andus on April 08, 2014, 11:01 PM
I haven't turned on my XP netbook for a couple of weeks, and now I'm wondering what the best thing to do is. Should I disable the automatic update the next time I turn it on or should I keep installing whatever updates have been or may still be released in the near future?

Quick guess (and prob part wrong!) is there are no "mainline" updates, so get whatever you can right up until today

Thanks, TaoPhoenix, but I heard someone mention a nag screen. Wasn't that included in yesterday's update? I'd prefer to avoid that one, if I can.

Turn off Automatic updates - there won't be any now since MS turned off the updates except for the malware/scareware nag screen.

If you use MSE you should be able to use the built in update regularly to keep it up to date (but don't expect software updates). Better option is to dump it and download something else - for once I would argue a full suite would be in order including a good firewall and learn how to use it.

Well Carol that's kinda why I was saying do it once. Depending on settings, I just got the last two updates this morning. But then yes, after that, sure.

40hz · « **Reply #34 on:** April 09, 2014, 04:15 PM »

I don't know if Heise's WSUS offline updater can still access Windows XP updates, but if it can it's probably worth installing a copy and downloading all those files to your own repository before they vanish from Redmond's servers.

The CT4Updater program

can be downloaded from here.

If anybody doesn't know what this extremely useful tool does for all current versions of Windows and MS Office, you can read about it here.

Here's a screenshot from an older version (the newest has the 2012 products) that pretty much explains what it does:

[attachthumb=#]

Click to enlarge.

I'm guessing once the updates are no longer available, Heise will remove the XP selection as they did Windows 2000 previously.

Deozaan · « **Reply #35 on:** April 09, 2014, 07:08 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on April 09, 2014, 10:56 AM

Turn off Automatic updates - there won't be any now since MS turned off the updates except for the malware/scareware nag screen.

The nag/notification was a part of Windows Update. It was separate from other updates. I think you should be able to just manually deselect it and hide it so that it never shows up in the list again, meanwhile other updates (such as MSE definition updates, etc.) will continue to download.

superboyac · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2014, 10:18 PM »

WinXP, the most successful OS of all time. True?
To my mind, Windows XP's importance in history is on the level of the light bulb.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2014, 10:32 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on April 09, 2014, 10:18 PM

WinXP, the most successful OS of all time. True?
To my mind, Windows XP's importance in history is on the level of the light bulb.

Or something. MS had nothing viable to offer for some eight years, so XP became "where it's at".

wraith808 · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2014, 10:48 PM »

^ *For some people.

40hz · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2014, 10:55 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on April 09, 2014, 10:48 PM

^ *For some people.

Yup. Agree. But less so in my case when I bit the bullet and jumped ship when it looked like Win 7 threatened to become another train wreck like Vista was...

MS pulled that one out of the fire rather nicely. I don't know what they were thinking when they did Win 8 and squandered all the goodwill and credibility W7 earned them.

Sad too. Because stripped of all the BS Sinofsky and his team burdened it with, Win 8 is actually a very nice desktop OS. Probably the best MS ever developed.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #40 on:** April 09, 2014, 11:18 PM »

Quote from: Deozaan on April 09, 2014, 07:08 PM

Quote from: Carol Haynes on April 09, 2014, 10:56 AM
Turn off Automatic updates - there won't be any now since MS turned off the updates except for the malware/scareware nag screen.

The nag/notification was a part of Windows Update. It was separate from other updates. I think you should be able to just manually deselect it and hide it so that it never shows up in the list again, meanwhile other updates (such as MSE definition updates, etc.) will continue to download.

I have come to the conclusion that MSE is not ideal even with definition updates - the software will not be updated (you can't even download it for XP) just the definition files - given that the primary reason AV software is updated is to counter possible hijacking I can't see MSE as being fit for purpose on XP for very long - unless MS relent and update the code too.

I am going to recommend customers on XP buy a strong security suite such as Avira or Outpost, supplement with with MBAM and never use IE again.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #41 on:** April 10, 2014, 12:00 AM »

PS: CT4Updater seems to be working getting XP updates .... nice that it creates ISO files with automatic installers!!! Grab them now if you want them for an archive. I might find them hand for client computers or VM machines if they need refreshing in the future.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #42 on:** April 10, 2014, 12:10 AM »

Quote

MS pulled that one out of the fire rather nicely. I don't know what they were thinking when they did Win 8 and squandered all the goodwill and credibility W7 earned them.

I had the same feeling. My cynical side says it's simply churning. If they put out a new OS then PC makers who preload have to make it available. Apparently in computing "old" is a much worse description than "broken."

40hz · « **Reply #43 on:** April 10, 2014, 02:01 AM »

I actually think Win 8 will be the last (ok maybe second to last) "for sale" as opposed to "for lease" OS Microsoft will do.

The whole point of their cloud initiative is to gain a steady and predictable stream of revenue. That is what O365 is primarily about. Any benefits realized by the customer (and there are in fact several benefits) are purely incidental to that goal. And getting people to regularly upgrade to the newest version of Windows or Office just isn't going to happen - as the long life of XP has clearly shown.

Microsoft can't afford, nor can it allow that state of affairs to continue.

I strongly believe that Microsoft will (at the very least) require the purchase of a software maintenance agreement in order to get Windows and MS Office updates after the first year of ownership. I also think they'll soon allow you to subscribe to Windows much like you can with Office.

Sometime around (or shortly after) the release of Windows 9, the era of being able to "buy" a boxed version of a Microsoft OS (or probably any other MS software product) will come to a close.

[attachthumb=#]

Brave new world folks! Brave new world...

rgdot · « **Reply #44 on:** April 10, 2014, 02:14 AM »

The alternative still needs a lot of work. It may be that all of the issues are fixable by googling but a user turning a computer on shouldn't need to google basic features and/or requirements ... yep I am going off topic

app103 · « **Reply #45 on:** April 10, 2014, 03:13 AM »

Quote from: 40hz on April 10, 2014, 02:01 AM

I actually think Win 8 will be the last (ok maybe second to last) "for sale" as opposed to "for lease" OS Microsoft will do.

The whole point of their cloud initiative is to gain a steady and predictable stream of revenue. That is what O365 is primarily about. Any benefits realized by the customer (and there are in fact several benefits) are purely incidental to that goal. And getting people to regularly upgrade to the newest version of Windows or Office just isn't going to happen - as the long life of XP has clearly shown.

Microsoft can't afford, nor can it allow that state of affairs to continue.

I strongly believe that Microsoft will (at the very least) require the purchase of a software maintenance agreement in order to get Windows and MS Office updates after the first year of ownership. I also think they'll soon allow you to subscribe to Windows much like you can with Office.

Sometime around (or shortly after) the release of Windows 9, the era of being able to "buy" a boxed version of a Microsoft OS (or probably any other MS software product) will come to a close.
(see attachment in previous post)
Brave new world folks! Brave new world...

Why does this sound familiar? Oh yeah.

TaoPhoenix · « **Reply #46 on:** April 10, 2014, 06:18 AM »

Quote from: 40hz on April 10, 2014, 02:01 AM

I actually think Win 8 will be the last (ok maybe second to last) "for sale" as opposed to "for lease" OS Microsoft will do.
...
Sometime around (or shortly after) the release of Windows 9, the era of being able to "buy" a boxed version of a Microsoft OS (or probably any other MS software product) will come to a close.
(see attachment in previous post)
Brave new world folks! Brave new world...

Well, I'm hoping it's "shortly after" because I want one last good Win OS to ride into the sunset with and I'm banking hard that it's Win 9. With Steve Ballmer gone I'm really putting my hopes into that new CEO. He's got a big ship that won't turn corners fast, but I'm hoping he goes more towards the basics. And yes MS absolutely can allow another OS to sit on people's comps for 12 years. They just have to get very narrow metrics right.

40hz · « **Reply #47 on:** April 10, 2014, 10:57 AM »

Quote from: app103 on April 10, 2014, 03:13 AM

Why does this sound familiar? Oh yeah.

And also because it should by now be obvious what the larger strategies are for people like Microsoft and the government.

The massively empowering personal computing phenomena is too "disruptive" to the powers that be and those who would profit by serving them.

[attach]

xtabber · « **Reply #48 on:** April 11, 2014, 08:31 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on April 10, 2014, 10:57 AM

And one way to accomplish that is to take away the ability to load your own software. Or posess your own copies. Both goals can readily be accomplished by simply taking hard media (like DVDs) out of the equation.

Adobe has already done that with their family of products. Microsoft is well on it's way to doing that for their entire ecosystem. And where the big devs go, the smaller will of necessity follow.

WRT Adobe, that is only true for professional products like Photoshop, Indesign, etc... The people who use those depend on them for their livelihood, are not about to switch platforms unless they absolutely have to, and are mostly happy to pay big bucks for their software to be always up-to-date as a cost of doing business. Consumer products, and even professional products which face credible competition in the marketplace (eg., Photoshop Lightroom), follow the old paradigm and most likely will continue to do so. Some products remain free while attempting to entice users into paid additions and upgrades (Eg, Adobe Reader).

Outside of their Enterprise level software, Microsoft doesn't really have separate product lines for professional users and consumers, just different option levels of what is basically the same product. I'd guess they may split Windows and Office into substantially different standard and premium lines, with the latter requiring a subscription. They have already taken steps toward that by making Windows 8.1 free for devices with screens under 9" and including Office 2013 H&S for free with some Windows 8.1 non-professional editions, while requiring an Office 365 subscription for professional users. In other words, I expect them to require subscriptions where folks really have to use the product, and make it free or cheap where it's an optional purchase.

So if you have an option to switch, that leaves you in the driver's seat, but if you depend on either of these companies software (or Apple's or Google's, for that matter) to stay in business, they will insert a siphon into your wallet.

Edvard · « **Reply #49 on:** April 14, 2014, 06:33 AM »

http://www.neowin.net/news/relive-your-xp-nostalgia-with-microsofts-escape-from-windows-xp-game