Computers Outlawed in Florida

[Renegade]

Just in case you live in Florida, you might want to get rid of all your computers, laptops, smart phones, tablets, Raspberry Pis, and anything else like it. You don't want to end up in prison, after all.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/08/florida-banned-computers_n_3561701.html

Florida Accidentally Banned All Computers, Smart Phones In The State Through Internet Cafe Ban: Lawsuit

When Florida lawmakers recently voted to ban all Internet cafes, they worded the bill so poorly that they effectively outlawed every computer in the state, according to a recent lawsuit.

In April Florida Governor Rick Scott approved a ban on slot machines and Internet cafes after a charity tied to Lt. Governor Jennifer Carroll was shut down on suspicion of being an Internet gambling front -- forcing Carroll, who had consulted with the charity, to resign.

Florida's 1,000 Internet cafes were shut down immediately, including Miami-Dade's Incredible Investments, LLC, a café that provides online services to migrant workers, according to the Tampa Bay Times.

Now... if any of our friends that live in Florida post in this thread, we'll know that they are hardened criminals with no respect for the law!

But thank God that the good people of Florida are now protected from the evils of Internet cafes! Phew! They really dodged a bullet there! God only knows how much more damage Internet cafes would have done to the poor people of Florida had they not banned them.

[sword]

See, "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", by Lewis Carroll

[Stoic Joker]

Actually that's not even the worst part. The worst part was the flimsy assed excuse that the came up with for banning the cafes in the first place. You see...The cafe's were construed to be a specifically cash business...which then of course auto-magically made them more susceptible to (well basically causal of) crime.

I shit you not, it was on the news...and came directly out of the mouth of one of the state big wigs.

What a complete and utter jackass. It seems none of these retards has ever heard of, check cashing companies, pawn shops, we buy gold/silver stores, or any bar/liquor store ... All of which are either strictly or predominantly cash businesses.

I frequently left the bar at night with anywhere between $500 - $3,000 in cash on me. Banks were closed, and locking it in the building -- With a monitored alarm system -- not more than 2 miles from the fuzz -- just didn't work out because we got robbed (after hours break in).

[Renegade]

Actually that's not even the worst part. The worst part was the flimsy assed excuse that the came up with for banning the cafes in the first place. You see...The cafe's were construed to be a specifically cash business...which then of course auto-magically made them more susceptible to (well basically causal of) crime.

I shit you not, it was on the news...and came directly out of the mouth of one of the state big wigs.

Sounds like more of the psy-op to demonize cash and move people to digital currency that can be strictly controlled. After all, you're a terrorist if you always pay for your morning coffee with cash...

[Renegade]

See, "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", by Lewis Carroll

Hahaha! Deeper and deeper down the rabbit-hole we go...

[tomos]

It's hard to credit - hopefully if it's such a cockup, it will be (simply) repealed....

The internet cafe thing was mentioned/discussed a while back in a thread that was since moved to the basement (for other reasons) -

Customer stops stick-up at Ocala Internet cafe (Granddad Says Hell No!):

Superb. But then, a bit later, the narrator says that police have been trying to close down these Internet cafés because:

"...there's money there"

- or something.
What? That's some kind of reverse logic, right there.

[app103]

Actually that's not even the worst part. The worst part was the flimsy assed excuse that the came up with for banning the cafes in the first place. You see...The cafe's were construed to be a specifically cash business...which then of course auto-magically made them more susceptible to (well basically causal of) crime.

I shit you not, it was on the news...and came directly out of the mouth of one of the state big wigs.

What a complete and utter jackass. It seems none of these retards has ever heard of, check cashing companies, pawn shops, we buy gold/silver stores, or any bar/liquor store ... All of which are either strictly or predominantly cash businesses.

I frequently left the bar at night with anywhere between $500 - $3,000 in cash on me. Banks were closed, and locking it in the building -- With a monitored alarm system -- not more than 2 miles from the fuzz -- just didn't work out because we got robbed (after hours break in).

I thought it was because of the absurd assumption that all internet cafes were nothing more than casinos in disguise, set up for the sole purpose of offering and profiting from illegal gambling. The ban most likely includes all computers on purpose, since any computer capable of playing any sort of game for money is an illegal gambling device, in their minds...no other purpose or use of these devices exists that is more important or more used than the purpose they are trying to end.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/10/3334274/gov-rick-scott-signs-internet.html

[Stoic Joker]

I thought it was because of the absurd assumption that all internet cafes were nothing more than casinos in disguise, set up for the sole purpose of offering and profiting from illegal gambling.

50/50 split really as they jumped back and forth between the two whenever one started to lose traction. But gambling isn't (and never has been) legal in Florida so that little puritanical bit was sort of ho-hum (we're used to it) old already. The crime thing started after some of them got robbed and the opportunity to spin things out of control was seized. They went nutz with it on the local news for months.

[IainB]

The points above mostly all make sense, given that:

• The police/SS seem obliged to deem cash business to be implicitly/potentially illegal, because you cannot trace the source of the money being used in the transaction to establish:
  (a) proof/certainty as to whether it was used for bona fide legal/legitimate purposes (e.g., it might be operating an unlicensed casino), or
  (b) whether the cash came from a "legitimate" or criminal source (e.g., as in money laundering).
  
• There seems to be a necessary drive by police/SS to exercise State control over all financial transactions so as to be able to "prove" them at the POS (Point Of Sale), as the police/SS are otherwise unable to effectively police various areas of crime engaged in money exchange/laundering.

Fans of the Breaking Bad series will recall the problems with having all that illegally-obtained cash (millions) stashed away in the wall linings of your garage or wherever...

@sword may well be right though:

See, "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", by Lewis Carroll

(Which I thought was a very droll comment.)    

  But there is at least one other important aspect to this that I can think of - banking transaction "tollgate" fees - which are a huge real/potential source of revenue.
We have witnessed that payments intermediaries/agents (e.g., PayPal, Visa, Mastercard) can pick and choose at their whim which of their commercial accounts can use their services - e.g., withdrawing access to their payments service and freezing accounts for "pirating" organisations frowned on by the **AA or by the State (e.g., Wikileaks).
  There will undoubtedly be a financial benefit for this "self policing", probably in terms of some kind of a fee from the **AA or the State, and/or from the use-of money interest by effectively sequestering the funds (assets) in any frozen or "unclaimed" or "unclaimable" accounts.
  The precedent for this form of highly lucrative and legitimised piracy bonanza was set in the case of the thousands of secretive anonymous Swiss Bank accounts of wealthy Jews killed in the Holocaust, and of the hundreds (or more) of Nazi/SS generals who had squirrelled away their humungus stolen assets - the spoils of war. Sitting on that sea of "gifted wealth" after WW2 was what made the corrupt (QED) Swiss banks even more secretive (lest they be discovered and were asked to pay the legitimate account monies to the descendants/heirs of the "untraceable" account-holders) and is apparently the main reason for Switzerland's strong economy today and their pride of place in the respectable (ho, ho) banking community.

  So that represents a  view of the population providing lucrative revenue from the accounts that you have as a banking/financial intermediary. But what about the accounts that you do not have? They could be potentially very lucrative.
  Well, every cash transaction is a missed tollgate fee, and there are likely to be billions of them, and once you have established your bank as the tollgate financial intermediary for those accounts, you can collect a fee on every transaction. It's a tax levied by nominated financial barons, for an ephemeral service, and which is authorised by governments and their Agencies (which collectively are otherwise the authorised thieves tax-gatherers). The government cannot function without a well-subsidised banking system creating the magical "trust" money (debt) that government necessarily feeds upon for its projects. For example, to conduct its philanthropic "peace-making" wars on a global scale, or to conduct philanthropic global mass surveillance...
  Some people (not me, you understand) might say that this issue (fees and commissions to feed the banks) - and not crime - might be the main reason that cash transactions must be discouraged in favour of EFT-POS (Electronic Funds Transfer at Point-Of-Sale), or similar - all operated by/through the banking system - but I couldn't possibly comment.
(By the way, this may indicate that Bitcoin or similar must be verboten.)

[IainB]

On second thoughts, maybe this Florida fiasco is no accident of incompetence.
Just sit back and watch how complex and time-consuming it may have to become before it gets fixed and the bad bits undone - if they ever are, in entirety.

"I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel." - Blackadder.

[mwb1100]

This got a little bit of a write-up on cracked.com today:

what's certain is that all of you reading this in Florida are filthy outlaws right now, and we've automatically reported you to the FBI.

[Tinman57]

  Florida.....That pretty much speaks for itself.    One of the politicians probably saw something on one of the computers that looked like a hanging chad and freaked..... 

[Stoic Joker]

One of the politicians probably saw something on one of the computers that looked like a hanging chad and freaked.....

Oh FFS Seriously?? I can't stop laughing long enough to get mad ... But can we let that go?

[40hz]

I think a lot of the motivation behind laws like this is to ultimately eliminate the ability to anonymously access the web. Small surprise really since you need an account or a license to use almost any other communication technology. Even public speech is starting to require a permit in many places.

So in Florida's case, I think one unspoken goal is to get the Internet equivalent of a public pay phone off the streets. Because it's just one more way to get a handle on the illegal migrant worker community.

Not that Florida wants to stop these people from coming in since so many "respectable American businesses" depend on "undocumented laborers" being available to work for slim wages - with no benefits.

But that doesn't mean Florida doesn't want to keep an eye on these people. They just want to monitor these folks without officially "seeing" them, since to do so might force the state to have to start enforcing its existing laws forbidding employers from knowingly hiring and profiting from illegal workers.

Start doing things like that and who knows where it will end?

[Renegade]

Start doing things like that and who knows where it will end?

Well, "Brave New World" is the medical tyranny, so it must instead be the last part of "1984".

[Stoic Joker]

I think a lot of the motivation behind laws like this is to ultimately eliminate the ability to anonymously access the web. Small surprise really since you need an account or a license to use almost any other communication technology. Even public speech is starting to require a permit in many places.

So in Florida's case, I think one unspoken goal is to get the Internet equivalent of a public pay phone off the streets...

You're giving the Florida legislature way too much credit here man...those folks a just flat out not that bright. Florida has always had a bug up their ass about the "EviLs" of gambling. It's nothing but sun, sand, snow heads, and family fun, and they're dead set on keeping it that way. Hell the Indians can even get a casino going around here...and they've had sovereignty for quite a few years now.

...Because it's just one more way to get a handle on the illegal migrant worker community.

We don't really have one that I know of/have ever seen. Now MilesAhead is considerably farther south than I so perhaps he could comment ... Buy I haven't seen a 9 people floated over from Cuba in a bathtub news report in years.

[40hz]

Buy I haven't seen a 9 people floated over from Cuba in a bathtub news report in years.

Why bother going to that extreme when there are so many countries you could enter from besides Cuba and not have to risk drowning for?

[Stoic Joker]

Buy I haven't seen a 9 people floated over from Cuba in a bathtub news report in years.

Why bother going to that extreme when there are so many countries you could enter from besides Cuba and not have to risk drowning for?

Hell, I don't know ... I'm here already. But it wasn't that many years ago we'd all sit around and marvel at the insane number of things that they'd manage to make float with ~50+ people in/on it. They even have a "Wet foot dry foot" rule/law here that basically states if you can make it to shore without getting spotted...you win.

[Tinman57]

One of the politicians probably saw something on one of the computers that looked like a hanging chad and freaked.....

Oh FFS Seriously?? I can't stop laughing long enough to get mad ... But can we let that go?

  I know, everybody has a long memory when it comes to stuff like that.  lol

[Vurbal]

The points above mostly all make sense, given that:

• The police/SS seem obliged to deem cash business to be implicitly/potentially illegal, because you cannot trace the source of the money being used in the transaction to establish:
  (a) proof/certainty as to whether it was used for bona fide legal/legitimate purposes (e.g., it might be operating an unlicensed casino), or
  (b) whether the cash came from a "legitimate" or criminal source (e.g., as in money laundering).
  
• There seems to be a necessary drive by police/SS to exercise State control over all financial transactions so as to be able to "prove" them at the POS (Point Of Sale), as the police/SS are otherwise unable to effectively police various areas of crime engaged in money exchange/laundering.

Fans of the Breaking Bad series will recall the problems with having all that illegally-obtained cash (millions) stashed away in the wall linings of your garage or wherever...

@sword may well be right though:

See, "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland", by Lewis Carroll

(Which I thought was a very droll comment.)    

  But there is at least one other important aspect to this that I can think of - banking transaction "tollgate" fees - which are a huge real/potential source of revenue.
We have witnessed that payments intermediaries/agents (e.g., PayPal, Visa, Mastercard) can pick and choose at their whim which of their commercial accounts can use their services - e.g., withdrawing access to their payments service and freezing accounts for "pirating" organisations frowned on by the **AA or by the State (e.g., Wikileaks).
  There will undoubtedly be a financial benefit for this "self policing", probably in terms of some kind of a fee from the **AA or the State, and/or from the use-of money interest by effectively sequestering the funds (assets) in any frozen or "unclaimed" or "unclaimable" accounts.
  The precedent for this form of highly lucrative and legitimised piracy bonanza was set in the case of the thousands of secretive anonymous Swiss Bank accounts of wealthy Jews killed in the Holocaust, and of the hundreds (or more) of Nazi/SS generals who had squirrelled away their humungus stolen assets - the spoils of war. Sitting on that sea of "gifted wealth" after WW2 was what made the corrupt (QED) Swiss banks even more secretive (lest they be discovered and were asked to pay the legitimate account monies to the descendants/heirs of the "untraceable" account-holders) and is apparently the main reason for Switzerland's strong economy today and their pride of place in the respectable (ho, ho) banking community.

  So that represents a  view of the population providing lucrative revenue from the accounts that you have as a banking/financial intermediary. But what about the accounts that you do not have? They could be potentially very lucrative.
  Well, every cash transaction is a missed tollgate fee, and there are likely to be billions of them, and once you have established your bank as the tollgate financial intermediary for those accounts, you can collect a fee on every transaction. It's a tax levied by nominated financial barons, for an ephemeral service, and which is authorised by governments and their Agencies (which collectively are otherwise the authorised thieves tax-gatherers). The government cannot function without a well-subsidised banking system creating the magical "trust" money (debt) that government necessarily feeds upon for its projects. For example, to conduct its philanthropic "peace-making" wars on a global scale, or to conduct philanthropic global mass surveillance...
  Some people (not me, you understand) might say that this issue (fees and commissions to feed the banks) - and not crime - might be the main reason that cash transactions must be discouraged in favour of EFT-POS (Electronic Funds Transfer at Point-Of-Sale), or similar - all operated by/through the banking system - but I couldn't possibly comment.

I had actually been trying to work out the regulatory gatekeeper angle on this because it smells exactly like the kind of crap that everybody from online rideshare services to more upscale operations like Uber have had to deal with from the crony capitalists who regulate taxis. I suspect you've hit the nail on the head.

MasterCard and Visa have an extremely disproportionate amount of influence on the electronic payment infrastructure in this country. Their insane fee structures are the reason most businesses prefer smaller transactions to be in cash. Not by coincidence one of the more embarrassing revelations from the State Department that sent the US government on their Wikileaks witch hunt was about their "lobbying" on behalf of those 2 companies WRT Russia's development of their own electronic payment system.

(By the way, this may indicate that Bitcoin or similar must be verboten.)

According to the DHS goon squad it certainly is. You know somebody has friends in high places when they get to rent out the copyright police for their party.

[app103]

I think a lot of the motivation behind laws like this is to ultimately eliminate the ability to anonymously access the web. Small surprise really since you need an account or a license to use almost any other communication technology. Even public speech is starting to require a permit in many places.

So in Florida's case, I think one unspoken goal is to get the Internet equivalent of a public pay phone off the streets. Because it's just one more way to get a handle on the illegal migrant worker community.

Was it also their goal to remove computers from all libraries, a place where one can still go to access a computer anonymously, or access a computer if one can't afford to own one or pay for an internet connection? It would be really weird if their intention was to become the only state where economically disadvantaged students can't go to a library to complete homework assignments or do research online. Pretty much anything that one could do at an internet cafe can be done at a library, and with free access, rather than paying the fees charged at the cafes.

[40hz]

<*Note - my original post here contained so many errors (pays to check on what current rules are rather than go on something you remember coming up that it turns out never went into effect) that I'm redoing the whole post. Apologies. >

My town requires a driver's license, photo student ID, or other "acceptable form of identification" to get a library card. So so much for completely anonymous access.

[app103]

^^ In my town, you must meet 1 of 3 requirements to get a library card:

A. Live in our town.
B. Work in our town.
C. Go to school in our town.

• Proof of A can be as simple as a utility bill, bank statement, or voter registration card.
• Proof of B can be as simple as a letter from your employer.
• Proof of C can be a report card, or in the case of one of the schools housing a branch of the library, a teacher bringing the class in, and you happen to be in it.

In each case they are only looking for 2 things: that the name on whatever document supplied matches the library card application, and that the town matches our own. They don't even make copies of whatever you supply as proof, and no photo ID is required to prove that the name is yours.

A library card is NOT required to use the computers, you are not required to meet any of the 3 conditions for a card, and no logs are kept any longer than physically necessary (meaning there may be a history kept till the machine is rebooted and deepfreeze will take care of that). Anyone can come in off the street and use the computers, no questions asked. BUT, if a local student comes in and says they need to use a computer for school work, you will be kicked off in favor of allowing them access, if necessary.

Our library was one of the first in the state to go digital, networked with all branches, and toss their card catalog (back in the 80's); and one of the ones that stood up to the DHS in defiance of turning over records, even going as far as deleting the entire borrowing history and altering their logging system so that going forward the only records now kept are who has a card and who has what books currently out on loan. Once a book is checked back into the system as returned, the record of who last borrowed it is gone, as long as there are no overdue fines owed. This was deliberate so that if asked by the government, it would not be possible to comply with a request for privacy invading information, that they thought could have a chilling effect on what they felt was a fundamental part of free speech rights, namely the right of authors to be read by those that choose to do so. (nice to have a public library run by a private non-profit organization made up of ethical idealist volunteers, rather than owned by the local government)

As far as computer use rules, there is pretty much only one: Don't let a librarian catch you looking at porn (if you somehow find a way to bypass their filters), or you will be kicked out of the library.

[40hz]

^It's a bit differet here:

Library Cards

For residents

Library Cards are available free to all residents.

With your library card you are eligible to check out books, movies, magazines, museum passes, access our databases, download books & music from our website, use the Internet and more. A Library Card is honored at ... all public libraries in Connecticut. ...

Residents may apply for a library card online or apply in person.

Adult Residents: May use either 1: a current CT driver’s license or 2: a government issued picture ID with birth date AND one of the following as proof of current Fairfield street address: car registration; car insurance card; real estate tax bill, or any other business mail with your address.

Residents Under 18 years Old: May use student ID along with mail addressed to them or “to the parents of” with their resident address. Children accompanied by parents may use parent’s ID as proof of address.

Non-Resident Cards: Current hometown library card plus 1: a current CT driver’s license or 2: a government issued picture ID with birth date AND one of the following as proof of current street address: car registration; car insurance card; real estate tax bill, or any other business mail with your address.

University Students: Must show student ID plus: 1. a current driver’s license or 2: a government issued picture ID with birth date AND one of the following as proof of current street address: car registration; car insurance card; or any other business mail with your home address.

Oh...and I stand corrected on the official internet access policy here! (Oh happy day!) What I had previously mentioned was a proposed policy that never got approved. The official policy is that there is NO monitoring or nanny-style censoring of any kind - on  the part of the library - for either the library's own computers, or through their public access wifi link for laptops.

As part of its commitment to providing quality materials that reflect the needs and interests of the people ...Library provides internet access through its public access terminals. The internet is a global information network that is growing and ever changing. It provides the means of accessing a wealth of information and can be an invaluable research tool.  ...Library does not monitor and has no control over the information accessed on the internet and cannot be held responsible for its content. Internet resources accessible at the Library are provided equally to all Library users. Parents or guardians, not the Library, are responsible for internet information selected or accessed by their children. The Library does not censor nor protect your children from controversial or inappropriate resources.  

They do have an acceptable use policy that is quite rational and workable:

Internet computers may only be used for legal purposes.

        Unacceptable uses include, but are not limited to: harassment of other users; libeling or slandering other users; destruction of or damage to equipment, software or data belonging to the library or other users; changing the library’s setup of software or hardware; disruption or unauthorized monitoring of electronic communications; unauthorized copying of copyright-protected material; viewing or downloading of pornographic or potentially offensive information and images, text, videos or sounds.

         Misuse or abuse of the library’s computers will result in a warning and a one month suspension of Internet privileges. A second violation may lead to a permanent loss of Internet privileges

There's no mention of what sort of logging they do. But I assume they keep some logs for legal purposes and to support any suspension of privilege in the event of a violation of acceptable use rules.

The only problem is, anything in a log can be accessed and analyzed. So I'd hesitate to say you're completely anonymous when using my town's public internet access resources.

Real online anonymity is pretty much a thing of the past although 'stealthing' or 'cloaking' your presence is still a possibility. About the closest I think you could come to "cloaking' your internet use would be to hack into some poorly secured broadband router (there are still many of them) via wifi and browse around using somebody else's IP address.

But you'd also need to spoof your MAC address and any other identifiable machine/OS information - and make sure no traces of anything actually hit your hard drive during your online session before you could feel even semi-cloaked. That means booting a verified "stealth" Linux OS from a USB key or disk - ideally on a used PC without a hard drive - which you bought from a complete stranger or built from used parts - which you paid cash for.

Hardly be worth it to me btw. I'd rather not use the Internet at all if it ever came to my actually needing to do something like that.

[Renegade]

Real online anonymity is pretty much a thing of the past although 'stealthing' or 'cloaking' your presence is still a possibility. About the closest I think you could come to "cloaking' your internet use would be to hack into some poorly secured broadband router (there are still many of them) via wifi and browse around using somebody else's IP address.

But you'd also need to spoof your MAC address and any other identifiable machine/OS information - and make sure no traces of anything actually hit your hard drive during your online session before you could feel even semi-cloaked. That means booting a verified "stealth" Linux OS from a USB key or disk - ideally on a used PC without a hard drive - which you bought from a complete stranger or built from used parts - which you paid cash for.

AFAIK, your MAC address isn't broadcast through a browser, but is identifiable by the router. If using a trusted VPN and TOR, finding that router is nigh unto impossible. But still... remotely possible.

But a wireless USB device could serve to replace the MAC address there, and is far cheaper to replace (or easier to conceal) than a full laptop.

Is that about right?