Author Topic: RealWorld Paint 2013.1 (Read 35,670 times)

vlastimil · « **on:** March 21, 2013, 04:16 PM »

Hi coders,

a new version of my freeware image editor is here. This time, the big new feature is vector layers. There is also a new tool called Shape that is similar to the Pen tool in Photoshop (= allows you to create arbitrary shapes from Bezier arcs). There are also a couple of simplifications in the user interface, which should lower the sensory overload new users may experience.

My goal for this version was to make the software usable for semi-professional logo designing and I have a good feeling about it. While it is no Corel Draw or Adobe Illustrator, the results you can get from it are often good enough. I also improved the .psd codec - it now understands vector masks in Photoshop files and can import them as vector layers.

Here is a screenshot showing my adaptation of Hally's Robo Cody. It consists of a couple of vector layers with layer styles applied and the shading is in a separate raster layer.

[attach]

mouser · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:31 PM »

Just watching the video now -- it's such an impressive program.. it's rather humbling to think it was coded by just a couple of people -- by all appearances it seems like a commercial tool produced by a large team of pro coders.

Incredible work vlastimil.

vlastimil · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:49 PM »

Thanks mouser. I often feel foolish working on it, knowing that Adobe is in the same segment ;-). Sticking with smaller tools is definitely a smarter choice, but I am too stubborn to give up.

...and thanks for the donation!

tomos · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2013, 05:19 PM »

Sounds/looks great vlastimil,
You picked a very difficult subject for your video (face)

I look forward to giving it a go

Quote from: vlastimil on March 21, 2013, 04:49 PM

Sticking with smaller tools is definitely a smarter choice, but I am too stubborn to give up.

OTOH most people would be better off working with 'smaller tools' rather than working with illustrator ;-)

vlastimil · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2013, 05:29 PM »

Ooops, what I meant by "Sticking with smaller tools" was that individual software developers should create much smaller and specialized tools than RWPaint already is.

app103 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2013, 06:02 PM »

Quote from: vlastimil on March 21, 2013, 04:49 PM

I often feel foolish working on it, knowing that Adobe is in the same segment ;-).

Don't feel foolish! There should always be good quality alternatives to Adobe products. There are plenty of Adobe (and Corel) haters out there (for one or more reasons) that need to have someone to turn to for an alternative. No reason why that someone can't be you.

tomos · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2013, 06:38 PM »

hi Vlastimil - I messed around with this a little,
it's fun to use!
The shape tool is fairly intuitive and very nice to use

Some feedback:

I was confused about some results, but I managed - which is a good start (for me, *and* for RWpaint consideing I just dived in).
A more in depth video messing around and showing/explaining the uses and effects would be helpful at some stage. After messing around with it a bit, I looked at your video a second time - I now understand it a lot better.

I still couldnt figure out how to use the 'Line' and 'Curve' tools - I'm used to being able to continue a line with another click, but that doesnt seem to happen here. Also they both appear to produce an extra line which I didnt understand [see edits below!]

When I tried to add a solid fill, it didnt show - turned out the transparency was set to zero (I *think* that was by default). Confused me for a while as it was different to video.

[attachthumb=#]

In the background you can see my failed attempts to use the Line and Curve

~~I was also confused by the blue and green points on the paths - on my (relatively good quality) screen, they are too similar in colour to me.~~
EDIT/
I see now that the blue points are on the extra lines. ~~Maybe you could explain them briefly? Thanks!~~
EDIT2/

I see more now (!) they affect how the gradients show when using the different fill gradients which also affect path/line colour.

Tom

vlastimil · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2013, 07:18 PM »

Thanks for the feedback. I will be working on more videos as the current ones are for the older versions, but my microphone has abandoned me again. I can't get a good microphone. This one was decent (on a USB headset), but stopped working properly and now is extremely noisy

.

The Lines and Curves are working differently than in most other editors. I believe, stateless GUI is better for beginners and so the Line and Curve have only one state. When you create a Line, it has 3 points - two on the ends and 1 (greenish) in the middle. If you drag the middle point, new vertex is added. Similarly with the Curve.

I admit that the classic click-click-click-ESC way is faster when an experienced user creates a new line, but newbies have problems with it - they do not know that they have to somehow end the line (ESC, right click, ...?), changing a placed point or splitting an edge may be difficult, as it may involve choosing a different tool or re-configuring the current one. Though apparently, my approach confuses people, who have used other editors. I may adjust it or put some hits somewhere.

BTW for the Shape, the greenish points have similar function - they allow you to split an arc (without affecting a shape) and create a new control handle (point) at the desired location.

rgdot · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2013, 07:44 PM »

The CAD-type work flow is best in my opinion. Click for start, click for end, then drag points for modifications (increase length, create arc, etc.)

Either way, thanks vlastimil

tomos · « **Reply #9 on:** March 26, 2013, 07:47 PM »

Quote from: vlastimil on March 26, 2013, 07:18 PM

I admit that the classic click-click-click-ESC way is faster when an experienced user creates a new line, but newbies have problems with it - they do not know that they have to somehow end the line (ESC, right click, ...?), changing a placed point or splitting an edge may be difficult, as it may involve choosing a different tool or re-configuring the current one. Though apparently, my approach confuses people, who have used other editors. I may adjust it or put some hits somewhere.

yes,
I'm used to something else - but can see the problem with that method for people unfamiliar with it (I often forget myself that a point is still 'active' and start a new line only to find it's still the old one..)

Quote from: vlastimil on March 26, 2013, 07:18 PM

BTW for the Shape, the greenish points have similar function - they allow you to split an arc (without affecting a shape) and create a new control handle (point) at the desired location.

I got that - that's very good. Can then be more exact in modifying the shape

tomos · « **Reply #10 on:** March 26, 2013, 07:58 PM »

A suggestion / possibility:

I think people who have used a graphics vector programme would find the shape tool easy to use, and very efficient.
If you gave an option to cut the shape created - it could then be used to create a complex open line (without fill).

vlastimil · « **Reply #11 on:** March 26, 2013, 08:05 PM »

I wanted to make a sibling of the Shape, called Stroke, but decided to postpone it for the next version. The plan is for it to be very much like Shape when it gets to GUI. Simple Lines and Curves would be convertible to Strokes, just like Rectangles, Ellipses, Polygons and Texts are convertible to Shapes.

The Shape also has some hidden extras - there are context menu commands, various ones depending on what kind of control point you click and actual shape of the Shape.

I'll also take rgdot's opinion into account when designing future GUI changes. Who knows what will be the end result ;-).

tomos · « **Reply #12 on:** March 26, 2013, 08:06 PM »

Well it was a pleasure to mess around with

fenixproductions · « **Reply #13 on:** March 27, 2013, 02:16 AM »

Is there a place I can download some Window Layouts?

It is discouraging to see "No user configuration is available…" for any kind of image I'd like to create.

Edited: Although there are some issues with vectors, raster seems to work after complete profile deletion.

vlastimil · « **Reply #14 on:** March 27, 2013, 07:24 AM »

If you see that, it may be due to an error. If you have had a previous version installed and if it downloaded some updates, they may be interfering with the new version. I am going to fix that (I do not know how yet), but for now, deleting everything in %APPDATA%\RealWorld\RWPaint\PlugIns and eventually resetting the layouts (CTRL+SHIFT during start) should fix it. (Also using the portable version solves the problem.)

fenixproductions · « **Reply #15 on:** March 27, 2013, 05:37 PM »

@vlastimil
Ctrl+Shift does not fix it: for new vector image/layer I still see this sad message in the middle of the screen. I'd expect some kind of canvas but… well.

vlastimil · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2013, 05:52 PM »

That really looks like something from the older version is still in %APPDATA%\RealWorld\RWPaint\PlugIns - you sure the folder is empty?

fenixproductions · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2013, 09:36 PM »

Quote from: vlastimil on March 27, 2013, 05:52 PM

That really looks like something from the older version is still in %APPDATA%\RealWorld\RWPaint\PlugIns - you sure the folder is empty?

There is no such folder on my system since I am trying portable version and I constantly removing portable AppData (it is recreated on RW startup).
I've even checked RW with Filemon and except some DLLs and Internet Cache, no other files are called from outside its directory.

I've also tested it with Win7 on my work PC + bro's PC and there were no issues on them. So maybe my WinXP is at fault?

vlastimil · « **Reply #18 on:** March 27, 2013, 09:44 PM »

Oh, I thought you were using the installer. In case of portable version (I assume you unpacked it to a new, empty folder), I have no idea why it should not work. Maybe it was somehow damaged during download? Using WinXP is fine, it should work on anything from Win2k up. Could you zip the folder with the not-working version and send it to me to info@rw-designer.com ? I'd love to check it out on my PC. Thanks.

fenixproductions · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2013, 01:00 AM »

@vlastimil
Package here:
http://fenixproductions.dcmembers.com/tmp/RWPaint.rar
I will keep it for a day.

vlastimil · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2013, 07:37 AM »

Thanks, fenixproductions! Though, I have bad news - the package worked fine and I saw no missing layout on both my Win7 and on a clean WinXP in VirtualBox. Probably some sneaky bug that only manifests itself under special conditions. Are you using any applications that affect other software?

fenixproductions · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2013, 08:44 AM »

@vlastimil
They may be couple of applications which affects other application (like antivirus or Listary) but I doubt they are the cause.

The question is:
how vector workspace differs from raster one?

For raster all is here, for vector (layers or whole) - middle part is missing (the part you actually see the results).
It is strange because if I work with complex image I can create many layers: raster,vector,raster,vector BUT if I click through to see their content, I can observe hide & seek game with middle part of RWPaint.

vlastimil · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2013, 09:13 AM »

The middle part of the of the window, where the canvas is, is actually re-created each time you switch layer and there are 2 different "editors" that just happen to look the same (one implemented in RWViewImageRaster.dll, the other one in RWViewImageVector.dll - it is all very plug-in-ny). That placeholder message you see means that either the configuration is wrong (not likely, since it worked here) or creating the editor subwindow failed for some reason and the placeholder window was created instead of a hard crash.

If you not totally annoyed by the software yet, please try downloading this http://download.rw-designer.com/2013.1/RWViewImageVector.dll , replacing the original file and then creating a vector image. It should display a series of message boxes with numbers. Then please tell me the last number you saw - it may help me locate where the window creation fails.

fenixproductions · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2013, 09:39 AM »

@vlastimil
I have tried your DLL: numbers went to 8 and everything worked fine.
I 've got previous DLL back, retest and now everything is OK- very, very strange.

I have uploaded new AppData folder here:
http://fenixproductions.dcmembers.com/tmp/AppData.zip

Maybe you can find what's in it.

vlastimil · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2013, 09:54 AM »

Well, that is surprising. Thanks for the feedback, if the error returns please, let me know.

The AppData looks fine.