Author Topic: Anyone actually use rewriteable media? (Read 44,445 times)

superboyac · « **on:** April 20, 2006, 10:01 PM »

I know every time I've tried using CDRW discs, I've found them to be widely incompatible between machines, and always a little frustrating to use. Drag and drop never works as simple as that, the discs become corrupted easily, etc. I think the last time I tried was 2 years ago. I've never tried DVD rewriteable technology, but I assume it's just as bad. When I buy discs (CD or DVD) I NEVER get rewriteable discs.

But I haven't kept up with the times and I was wondering if it was better now, and if anyone actually uses these on a consistent basis now. Flash memory seems to be the standard as far as being able to write/rewrite on a portable media. But CDRW never worked that easily, at least for me. Also, I just got a minidisc recorder, and it uses magneto-optical discs which are very easy and stable as far as rewriting data on it.

Rover · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2006, 10:08 PM »

In short: No

I found simlar problems with RW media. Now with USB hard drives and sticks, why bother?

CD-RW and DVD-RW are dead to me

mouser · « **Reply #2 on:** April 20, 2006, 10:09 PM »

im 100% with rover. with price of blank cd/dvd and with usb sticks, seems not worth the trouble.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #3 on:** April 20, 2006, 10:24 PM »

I use DVD-RW all the time to video stuff off the TV and then use the computer to edit what I want to keep onto DVD-R or DVD+R formats. That way I can edit my movies etc. without usings two discs each time. Out of hundreds of DVD-RW recordings I have only had one disc go bad - and I recovered the recording using ISO buster ...

superboyac · « **Reply #4 on:** April 20, 2006, 11:14 PM »

That's very interesting Carol. Did you have similar experiences with CDRW? Or is DVDRW much more reliable/stable than the CD's were?

How about this, would you be comfortable to use DVDRW to backup data? I don't mean as your main backup, but as a sort of less important secondary backup?

mouser · « **Reply #5 on:** April 20, 2006, 11:16 PM »

may i make an advice about backups to dvd:
date and save the old ones.
one day you're going to realize that 4 backups ago you deleted a file you need, and that you've been making backups without it. being able to roll back to an older backup can be worth its weight in gold.

superboyac · « **Reply #6 on:** April 20, 2006, 11:30 PM »

Yes, I second that. I date all my backups, and furthermore, I catalog the contents using Whereisit. I don't think I've heard Whereisit mentioned here, it's a great program.

brotherS · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2006, 02:12 AM »

I'm using DVD+RW - but only *very* rarely.

Quote from: superboyac on April 20, 2006, 11:30 PM

Yes, I second that. I date all my backups, and furthermore, I catalog the contents using Whereisit. I don't think I've heard Whereisit mentioned here, it's a great program.

Mentioned several times: http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?action=search2;search=whereisit

But we still need a WhereIsIt? Mini-Review, are you up for it?

According to http://fileforum.betanews.com/detail/WhereIsIt/966364791/1 it's a decent program.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2006, 09:48 AM »

Quote from: superboyac on April 20, 2006, 11:14 PM

That's very interesting Carol. Did you have similar experiences with CDRW? Or is DVDRW much more reliable/stable than the CD's were?

How about this, would you be comfortable to use DVDRW to backup data? I don't mean as your main backup, but as a sort of less important secondary backup?

I only had a very brief dabble with CDRWs and didn't like them much. I have about a dozen of them sitting on my floor at the moment unused - and probably 5 years old!

I din't use DVD-RW to store video etc. simply because it is more expensive but I do reuse them to record TV regularly and have had no problems (I have been using Verbatim and TraxData discs equally and both seem to work fine on my machine but lots of machines are a bit picky about what discs to use anyway). If I decide to keep a recording I run it through TSUNAMI DVD Author, cut out ads etc. and add a menu and then make a disc label (well actually I use InkJet printable DVD-R disc and +R discs - mostly Ritek as they are really cheap and their dye has a good reputation). I haven't had any go bad yet - though I have noticed the occasional problem playing computer produced discs on my DVD Cinema system (getting blocky breakdown) but I don't know if this is the discs or my Plextor DVD writer. It hasn't happened often and when it has I have recovered the discs easily by simply making a new copy with Nero on the PC (from the disc that doesn't play well).

As for data - I have to confess I rarely burn stuff to DVD these days. I usually do incremental backups to a separate hard disc and then periodically do a new backup which I burn. When I do burn backups I tend to use DVD-R or DVD+R discs simply because they are cheap and I am anal about keeping old backups. Plus DVD-RW discs are expensive and slower to write and the need to erase them is extremely time consuming.

Hirudin · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2006, 11:32 AM »

I never use them either. I think I would, if the burn speeds were equal, but with formatting (I admit it, I don't know how long it takes to format) and the slower speed, I don't have any interest (paying more per disc doesn't thrill me either).

I've also had a couple problems with Ritek discs. I also don't know if I should chalk it up to the disc, the writer, or the disc-image though. I've always bought the cheapest I could find, with any media. Only ran into one problem: ~~Office Depot~~ OfficeMax branded CD-Rs. Unfortonately I bought 150 all at the same time.

brotherS · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2006, 11:40 AM »

Quote from: Hirudin on April 21, 2006, 11:32 AM

I've always bought the cheapest I could find, with any media.

Thou should not do that if thou want to restore the data

Hirudin · « **Reply #11 on:** April 22, 2006, 03:41 AM »

Quote from: brotherS on April 21, 2006, 11:40 AM

Thou should not do that if thou want to restore the data

Yeah, I know that's the theory, but I've probably burned close to 1000 CDs in my life, and like I said, only had a problem with that one "brand" of discs.

Actually, come to think of it, they were OfficeMax brand.
Off Topic: The only quality product I've bought at OfficeMax is their "MaxBright" paper, it's awesome! Pretty much everything else has been disappointing one way or another.

Baseman · « **Reply #12 on:** April 22, 2006, 12:24 PM »

No!...Nothings changed, still the same old story as far as Rewritables are concerned...I've lost a lot of data because of them...

CleverCat · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2006, 01:34 PM »

Hi - just joined today...

I use TDK DVD+RW with very few probs, and here in South Africa they can be bought for the equivalent of +- 60 US cents! (Occassional hitch using Send To with InCD). I only use CD-RW to copy discs or backup a disc and backup my music. I prefer RW as you can wipe and re-use. I NEVER just burn to CD-R - Burn to Rewrite disc and then check if all ok and then burn to CD-R! For my major Image Backups and storing stuff I don't want to lose, I have found an External Enclosure to be invaluable and mine has a 60GB Drive - plenty for my Images etc.

CleverCat...

crono · « **Reply #14 on:** April 26, 2006, 09:12 PM »

I use rewriteable medias sometimes for some backupjobs - but I use DVD-RAM and not DVD+/-RW. I never had any problem with DVD-RAM Media, but due to the higher costs (5 RAMs about 30 Euro) I consider buying (another) external HDD...

Jimdoria · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2006, 09:50 PM »

Wow, all this time I thought it was just ME that couldn't get CD-RW to work!

The promise of CD-RW was always that you could use it more or less like a big floppy disk. I've NEVER had that kind of experience. Has anyone?

I've tried on many different systems with many different drives and a few different packages (Nero's InCD, the Roxio thingy, etc.) I always suspected I was missing some major piece of the big picture or was just having a really long string of bad luck. I couldn't believe that a technology as ubiquitous as CD-RW could be so flaky, unreliable, incompatible and flat-out difficult to use.

In fact, I still don't get it. How can they keep selling CD/RW disks and drives if EVERYONE has these kinds of problems using it? It seems like the technology would have choked on its own bile by now. Are people just buying them and using them like CD-Rs because they don't know the difference?

superboyac · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2006, 10:10 PM »

No kidding, I felt the same way. basically, if cdrw or dvdrw can't work like exactly like the old floppy drives, it's not worth it to me. As in drag and drop, copy, delete, normal file management stuff...if it can't do that, forget it. I don't really want to use nero or roxio software to us a rw disc. If I'm going to go through the whole burning process, I'll just use regular media. That's why people use the thumbdrives, it just acts like a normal disc drive.

I'm actually kind of surprised that through the years, no good removable rewriteable storage device became popular. I know zip disks were pretty popular for a while, but they are pretty much done now. Thumbdrives are everywhere, but it's not really the same as a high capacity disk drive with cheap disks. Something like minidiscs are cool, but that never took off in the US. Don't you think it would be cool to have a stable, rewriteable media with cheap floppy-diskish prices?

There's a company, Addonics, that offers a solution for swapping hard drives back and forth that is cool (this is kind of off topic). They have encolsures that kind slide into a regular 5.25" bay, but the cool thing is that when you pull one of them out, you can also use the encloure as a usb or firewire drive. How cool is that?! Double the pleasure, double the fun!

longrun · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2006, 12:50 AM »

I use DVD+RW and reuse repeatedly without problems. I hate sending CD's or DVD's to the landfill.

tomos · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2006, 08:41 AM »

I'm actually using CDRWs

Well amongst others!

Im interested to hear how other people backup stuff cause Ive learnt to use computers myself & at times can be plain ignorant of, oh well, lots !! - I'll tell you my situation:

I work on maybe 100 drawings at a time, ends up being a lot more files cause as I correct them I save as a new file.
These I back up on a couple of disks of which I try to keep at least one fairly current copy "off the premises" (you never know ..)

I use nero (express I think its called - Im not at home now so cant check) Its the simple interface anyways (came with the burner)
I either simply click on make "datei Disk" (literally "file" - its in german) & it updates\synchronises data on disk with equivalent on harddisk.
Or I save contents (nero) file after burning & open that for next backup.
I dont know how trustworthy these are, esp. the second option.
Every now & again I copy disk to regular CD for "snapshot".

Are there other options?
Software, hardware ??
as I usually work on the one computer Ive never gotten a USB stick - are they fairly dependable ? - could be an option for "current work". (in the past Ive used a zip drive, I guess stick is just much more convenient version of same).
I usually have finished jobs or "jobs on a break" on DVD or CD anyways.

The CDRWs I use are Octron (ancient by now) & intensto & I dont have many - (keep reusing them (!)) mostly without problems - if there is a problem i just use a different disk for that backup & format the problem one (~ 45seconds b.t.w.)

thanks for any advice tips links etc, tom

mouser · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2006, 08:57 AM »

tomos, you might want to read our power-user backup guide:
http://www.donationcoder.com/Reviews/Archive/BackUpGuide/index.html

usb stick drives are quite nice.

don't depend on a dvd (or anything really) lasting forever... your best bet is redundant copies - don't depend on any one single backup device for your most critical files.

gjehle · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2006, 01:03 PM »

i've never used a RW CDR or DVDR, never ever since i got my first burner
the write-once media is just dirt cheap, so i dont have to bother about spending time on formatting the RW media

there's only one downside to the USB stick drive thingy
like all flash based storage it ages pretty fast
a single cell (bit) of the flash survives for something like 10000 write cycles, then it dies (the cell, not the whole memory)

compared to a the usual RW media, that's a _very_ long lifespan tho

anyways, a little side note:
all that hype about "boot <XYZ OS> from usb" is non-trivial
eg. for linux you have to use a special filesystem that prevents repeated writes into the same cell by distributing data over the whole memory.
you also have to disable logging facilities like syslogd etc, to prevent (in most cases) useless writes
now if you want to do the same with windows, be my guest and watch your stick age waaay faster

but that's just a little note that basically says: usb drives aren't the solution for everything

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2006, 03:24 PM »

Why do people feel the need to use CD-RW and DVD-RW as large floppies with the need to format them???

When I use DVD-RW (I don't bother with CD-RW these days at all - partly because of compataility issues with CD players) I just use it as a standard DVD-R disc. If I want to reuse it I use 'Quick Erase' which only takes a few seconds.

As I said before I have only ever had one problem disc (so far) and I have been using them for a while now.

I take Mouser's point though - don't rely on a single copy though with any 'burn it yourself' media. Manufacturer's recon they will last for up to 100 years but there just isn't enough data on lifespan of the dyes yet as any aging tests depend on artificial aging which is bound to be different to real aging! Personally I think a 10 year expectation is probably reasonable as the technology won't be around much by that time anyway.

Having said that I still use some floppy discs, music cassettes and VHS videos - some of which are up to 15 years old and I very rarely find problems with them.

Anyone see the article today about TDK producing a 200Gb Blu-ray disc? Now that could solve all my backup problems - shame they will probably be more expensive than the average hard disc for the forseeable future! (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7467.cfm)

superboyac · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2006, 04:55 PM »

Wow, these blu-ray discs are incredible. That storage capacity is enormous! I can't wait until I move my backups to them, they'll fit on just a handful of discs. I got my first dvd-burner last year, so it usually takes me a few years to get the latest burning technology.

But what do people have to backup that takes up so much space? Besides video and music, everything else I have can fit on one dvd.

Tinman57 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 06, 2006, 03:17 AM »

Back when I used CDRW media, I too found that it was prone to errors. I also found that anti-virus software will corrupt the data if running in the background while writing to CDRW. And there are other programs/Apps that interfere with CDRW media as well.

Since I have upgraded to DVD media, I have never got an error on any of my DVDRW's, even with the anti-virus running in the background.

One of the biggest factors with CDRW media is the type of media your using. Some brands/colors of media will work fine with certain brands of CD writers and fail on others. The trick is to find the brand of CDRW media that works best for your particular CD writer. Most all CD writers have a list of media that is suggested for use.

And don't forget, match the speed of the media to the writer. Don't use 40X media on a 32X CD writer. Shut down un-needed background task, especially anti-virus. And never ever have more than 1 CD authoring software installed on your computer at a time. INCD and Roxio, or any other brand of writing software installed on the same machine will make lots of trouble.

There are many tricks and tweaks for CDRW drives that can be found all over the internet....

Rover · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2006, 05:12 PM »

just tried recording a TV show on DVD RW. it recorded fine, but my DVD player wouldn't read it. Bleh on RW.