Author Topic: Well, I got it: Nokia Lumia 920, Windows 8 (Read 72,928 times)

40hz · « **Reply #25 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:02 PM »

Out of curiosity, does the Win8 phone have a desktop app similar to iTunes that allows you to do minor admin type things to it, or does everything need to be done on the device itself?

superboyac · « **Reply #26 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:08 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on November 15, 2012, 03:02 PM

Out of curiosity, does the Win8 phone have a desktop app similar to iTunes that allows you to do minor admin type things to it, or does everything need to be done on the device itself?

I was reading the forums last night, and I thought people mentioned something like that. But I never found out what it was. Zune desktop? Windows Phone desktop?

[edit]
found something in beta:
http://www.windowsphone.com/en-US/how-to/wp8/windows-phone-app-for-desktop
works with Windows 7. Not sure what it does, doubt it does anything actually good.

allen · « **Reply #27 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:19 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on November 15, 2012, 03:02 PM

Out of curiosity, does the Win8 phone have a desktop app similar to iTunes that allows you to do minor admin type things to it, or does everything need to be done on the device itself?

Sync is one place they really dropped the ball moving from Windows 7/Windows Phone 7 to 8. The way WP7 synchronized with Zune was excellent and could be set to automatically do so over WiFi when charging and idle. The Windows 8 RT style app for Windows Phone is a joke. You can use it to push music to your device and download photos but it requires a USB connection . . . backwards progress. I'm guessing the app superboyac linked to is just a normal desktop version of the same halfbaked sync features but I'll install it and see.

Microsoft has mentioned on more than one occasion that they ran out of time with the release, so hopefully what we're seeing isn't a vision of the future but an awkward transitional period.

superboyac · « **Reply #28 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:28 PM »

It does feel like a transitional period. I'll be very interested in developments with file transferring between the phone and pc. That WP7 wifi sync described above sounds great, I hope they bring it back. Or I hope someone else will make a 3rd party app for stuff like that. Am I crazy in believing that Windows is interested in giving developers a flexible platform to program in? Or are they limiting what you can and can't program? For example, apple won't let you do any programs that mess with the alarm clock features. Is Nokia/MS going to be like that also, where developers won't be allowed to touch certain low level OS features, like stuff in the control panel, wifi settings, file/folder exploring, etc.?

40hz · « **Reply #29 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:29 PM »

Quote from: allen on November 15, 2012, 03:19 PM

Microsoft has mentioned on more than one occasion that they ran out of time with the release

What does that mean? Seriously.

This is a commercial retail product. Not some F/OSS or volunteer project being run on a shoestring.

With pockets as deep, and resources as vast, as Microsoft has - how can they even "go there" with a comment like that? $:-\$

You know how Apple always used to say "Think Different"?

Maybe the new consumer slogan needs to be: Demand Better.

superboyac · « **Reply #30 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:36 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on November 15, 2012, 03:29 PM

Quote from: allen on November 15, 2012, 03:19 PM
Microsoft has mentioned on more than one occasion that they ran out of time with the release

What does that mean? Seriously.

This is a commercial retail product. Not some F/OSS or volunteer project being run on a shoestring.

With pockets as deep, and resources as vast, as Microsoft has - how can they even "go there" with a comment like that? $:-\$

You know how Apple always used to say "Think Different"?

Maybe the new consumer slogan needs to be: Demand Better.

I had the same questions. Why is MS rushing to make any release? Who is making the schedule? Just make it right! If you need to meet a date, just spend another few thousand and get a few more people.

allen · « **Reply #31 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:43 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on November 15, 2012, 03:28 PM

It does feel like a transitional period. I'll be very interested in developments with file transferring between the phone and pc. That WP7 wifi sync described above sounds great, I hope they bring it back. Or I hope someone else will make a 3rd party app for stuff like that. Am I crazy in believing that Windows is interested in giving developers a flexible platform to program in? Or are they limiting what you can and can't program? For example, apple won't let you do any programs that mess with the alarm clock features. Is Nokia/MS going to be like that also, where developers won't be allowed to touch certain low level OS features, like stuff in the control panel, wifi settings, file/folder exploring, etc.?

Sorry, pal -- you're thinking of Android. Microsoft is going the way of a tightly controlled ecosystem. I believe that WP8 gives developers access to a lot of things that were restricted in WP7 but it's still a matter of you having access to MS provided API's, not total system access. If you want an open platform, Motorola+Android.

I believe MS does give the vendors (HTC, Nokia) a great deal more access. One example that comes to mind from WP7 was the camera flash -- I don't know about 8, but on 7 only the camera had the ability to control the flash led. HTC phones came with a "flashlight" app that would turn on the camera flash and keep it on. Non htc phones couldn't do that.

allen · « **Reply #32 on:** November 15, 2012, 03:49 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on November 15, 2012, 03:36 PM

I had the same questions. Why is MS rushing to make any release? Who is making the schedule? Just make it right! If you need to meet a date, just spend another few thousand and get a few more people.

I think they wanted to push the many screens idea, keeping win 8, win rt and win phone 8 all in a close time frame. Why they weren't able to get everything right in time, I don't know, but I think they were probably right with the timing. And it's all got to hit the shelves for the holidays, otherwise everybody will get their new iphone or android and so much for WP8.

There are some shortcomings, for sure, but the big pieces are all there. I love the 920 and I really want the WP platform to succeed. . . my beloved WebOS is dead and I don't like Android or iOS.

40hz · « **Reply #33 on:** November 15, 2012, 04:59 PM »

Quote from: allen on November 15, 2012, 03:43 PM

Sorry, pal -- you're thinking of Android. Microsoft is going the way of a tightly controlled ecosystem. I believe that WP8 gives developers access to a lot of things that were restricted in WP7 but it's still a matter of you having access to MS provided API's, not total system access. If you want an open platform, Motorola+Android.

I believe MS does give the vendors (HTC, Nokia) a great deal more access.

But maybe not for long if the recent speculation about Microsoft planning to manufacture its own smartphone turns out to be accurate.

superboyac · « **Reply #34 on:** November 15, 2012, 05:28 PM »

I'll have to check out motorola+android.

If MS makes their own phones, i sure hope it will be very open and flexible for developers to do cool things with it.

superboyac · « **Reply #35 on:** November 15, 2012, 06:09 PM »

Some info about the new WP8 OS:

Quote

you can't use osbuilder because this rom isn't built like other winCE's roms (wm6.x, wp7). This rom has got his own filesystem (I think it should be ReFS), and his own structure. You have to wait because some developers are digging into it. Right now we only know that the system structure is similar to a Windows PC, even drivers are in sys format (this is a bad news for those who are waiting a porting to older devices).

The bolded is what I'm thinking about. What does that mean for file/folder transferring opportunities?

f0dder · « **Reply #36 on:** November 15, 2012, 07:33 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on November 15, 2012, 06:09 PM

What does that mean for file/folder transferring opportunities?

Nothing

The ROM is the firmware/OperatingSystem image - doesn't have anything to do with the user-accessible filesystem on the device (even if same filesystems might be involved). And even the filesystem invovled doesn't really matter much, since data access APIs aren't coupled to the filesystem.

The real problem is whether applications are allowed access to files, or if they can only access their own little islands of data like on iOS.

superboyac · « **Reply #37 on:** November 15, 2012, 09:48 PM »

To answer my own question:
To update the Windows Phone OS, go to Settings-->Phone Update
http://youtu.be/ydZVgez94rA

f0dder · « **Reply #38 on:** November 15, 2012, 10:06 PM »

SuperBoy, are WinPhone8 upgrades through your carrier, or directly from MS? (I'd suppose the former).

For android, you get upgrades from the carrier, which pretty much sucks - lots of them install bloated crap (like the should-be-lined-up-and-shot Windows OEMs), and don't deliver a lot of updates. Of course one can root the device and uninstall unofficial (and superior?) firmware, which is a nice option the closed ecosystems still have, but... bleh

superboyac · « **Reply #39 on:** November 15, 2012, 10:19 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on November 15, 2012, 10:06 PM

SuperBoy, are WinPhone8 upgrades through your carrier, or directly from MS? (I'd suppose the former).

For android, you get upgrades from the carrier, which pretty much sucks - lots of them install bloated crap (like the should-be-lined-up-and-shot Windows OEMs), and don't deliver a lot of updates. Of course one can root the device and uninstall unofficial (and superior?) firmware, which is a nice option the closed ecosystems still have, but... bleh

I don't know for sure, but I think it's coming straight from MS. I say that because the option is in the Settings menu, which is default for any windows 8 phone. If it was coming from Nokia, I think it would have been a special Nokia or ATT app like they have several of on the phone already.

Also, since Microsoft worked much more closely with the phone manufacturers compared to Android, I don't think that kind of weird delays with updates will happen. Android is crazy...different phones get updates months apart, some never get certain updates at all, it's a little ridiculous. That's another one of Windows' great trademarks and I hope they don't get rid of it.

allen · « **Reply #40 on:** November 15, 2012, 10:39 PM »

With WP7, the updates had to go through the carrier. Not unlike Android, they were slow, painful, few and far between. My understanding is that with WP8 they're coming straight from MS, so they can keep the updates rolling. I sure hope that's the case--considering WP8 needs some update love, sooner the better.

superboyac · « **Reply #41 on:** November 15, 2012, 11:50 PM »

Quote from: allen on November 15, 2012, 10:39 PM

With WP7, the updates had to go through the carrier. Not unlike Android, they were slow, painful, few and far between. My understanding is that with WP8 they're coming straight from MS, so they can keep the updates rolling. I sure hope that's the case--considering WP8 needs some update love, sooner the better.

Yes, I also hope they start fine tuning things. I just really want one thing: some way to transfer files and folders of stuff between pc and phone, and also between apps. That's it. Is that too much to ask for?

allen · « **Reply #42 on:** November 16, 2012, 12:06 AM »

If you're talking about music, photos, documents, etc., just plug it in -- unlike WP7 you can mount it and copy files back and forth. The filesystem doesn't give full access to the phone's internals, if that's what you're after, but it is an easy way to move things around.

superboyac · « **Reply #43 on:** November 16, 2012, 04:56 AM »

Quote from: allen on November 16, 2012, 12:06 AM

If you're talking about music, photos, documents, etc., just plug it in -- unlike WP7 you can mount it and copy files back and forth. The filesystem doesn't give full access to the phone's internals, if that's what you're after, but it is an easy way to move things around.

I didn't realize that, let me try it...thanks.

superboyac · « **Reply #44 on:** November 16, 2012, 05:04 AM »

Ok, I just tried it, awesome! Thanks allen, huge brain fart on my part. (that rhymes)

Here's something that bothers me...my mp3 files are perfectly tagged and named, I'm quite obsessive about it. The player on the phone is having lots of problems with titles (includes "the" in titles when I have it removed). It sorts everything alphabetically and no option for any other kind of sorting. I don't want my album tracks sorted alphabetically (who does??). I don't understand these companies, and I know it's all about DRM somehow, someway. Same files, when dropped into a rockbox player, are perfect. no issues with any naming, sorting, nothing. I had this same problem with itunes and the ipod. They make sure to use the absolute hardest to deal with tags for things like Artist, Album Artist, etc.

[edit]
sorry my bad...I need to drag the music into the "music" folder, not one of those artist or album subfolders. That seems to fix the sorting issues. I need to stop jumping to conclusions and stop being a critical negative nancy.

allen · « **Reply #45 on:** November 16, 2012, 01:44 PM »

I hadn't realized you could drag stuff directly to the device either, I assumed you couldn't as was the case with every other zune/post-zune device they made. While trying to find out if the Desktop WP app was better than the metro one, I found this handy reference.

I haven't transferred anything over yet as I've been trying to give the Xbox Music experience a go. I let it scan and match my library on one pc and magically most of my music is available to stream on my phone and laptop. The music player needs a little work before it's up to the standard Zune set for seemless use/navigation but otherwise I'm pretty pleased with the setup. Granted, at some point I'll need to figure out the most convenient way to actually put music on the device rather than stream it.

As for jumping to conclusions... we're all trying to feel our way through. Windows Phone does things differently. Even coming from Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8 is its own thing.

superboyac · « **Reply #46 on:** November 17, 2012, 12:14 AM »

I just figured out how to link duplicate contacts on the phone. Another "duh" moment. I gotta say, it's very easy and elegant. Nice.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #47 on:** November 17, 2012, 12:35 AM »

Think I will stick with Blackberry phone (while they are around) and Android tablet.

Really don't want to get locked into the MS ecosystem any more than I want to be locked into the Apple ecosystem. Can't see any advantage for me in either case whereas I plug my phone or tablet into a USB port and access all my files and folders on both.

If everything is cloudbased on the WinRT phones what is the bandwidth usage like? Many UK carriers really limit your bandwidth or charge a fortune (and anyway I don't get 3G where I live/work so any cloud based activity is basically pretty broken - dog slow and times out a lot on GPRS).

superboyac · « **Reply #48 on:** November 17, 2012, 12:53 AM »

Carol, I'm with you in spirit, but obviously I have succumbed to the ecosystem for now. It's not as bad as I expected. I'm predominantly a Windows user, so having my phone be a part of the ecosystem wasn't much of a problem at all. Now, with Apple, I had issues because none of my workflow was part of the Apple ecosystem, so it wasn't that convenient for me, just more work basically.
As far as bandwidth, the phone has options for certain things so you won't waste bandwidth. Like you can set it to not download high res pictures, and it will warn you if you are about to stream a video. So i think the bandwidth is fine.
Also, there aren't that many apps and features yet, so there isn't all that much happening with the cloud currently for me. The main thing I've noticed as far as the MS ecosystem is that it ties all the contacts on the phone together automatically: facebook, google, hotmail/skydrive. And I may be wrong, but the MS ecosystem seems to be better for a professional workflow than Apple's is.

Furthermore:
I let my coworker play with the phone today, and he has the Samsung Galaxy S3 (top of the line Android phone currently). He felt that the Lumia 920 was better made than the Samsung, it's just about the same quality as the previous iphones I'd say. he also liked and noticed how much better the touch response is (also, IMO, as good or better than iphone). Android is the worst for touch response, I'm quite certain of that. So in other words, he was very impressed with the phone.

It's just a question of apps right now. If a decent app selection was available, I think the Windows Phone has iphone and android beat. Now my little sister did NOT like the windows phone, but she is also not a computer person at all, and doesn't need many features at all (in other words, the ideal apple customer).

superboyac · « **Reply #49 on:** November 17, 2012, 05:09 AM »

Man, ok so now I know what I really am waiting for...
Let's get some cool info on the live tiles already! Enough with the ridiculous super-minimalism. Freaking A...let's use the space we have. These phones are already short on real estate with the pixels, there's no need to get crazy with the minimalist stuff that has taken hold the last decade.

So i hope some people develop cool and useful live tile information. I found one that shows the battery level which is nice because (again!) for some odd reason MS decided to hide all those notifications on the tops of phone screens (wifi signal level, lte signal level, battery level, you know those little icons). So every time you want to check the battery level or something, you have to swipe down to make them appear. To me, this is minimalism taken too far. Just show those things, they are things we are always interested in seeing when we get look at the phone.