Author Topic: Does anyone here use Bitcoins? (Read 854,854 times)

40hz · « **Reply #400 on:** December 09, 2013, 01:06 PM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 09, 2013, 12:30 PM

If you saw my finances, you'd know that I'm already thinking that.

Glad to see somebody I know is coming out ahead. Luck!

Renegade · « **Reply #401 on:** December 09, 2013, 04:05 PM »

Here's a fun cartoon:

http://www.pidjin.net/2013/12/09/bitcoined/

bit · « **Reply #402 on:** December 09, 2013, 08:29 PM »

Why would I want to use a bit coin? It seems unsanitary, and they're not even real gold.

Yay it's my 100th post!

40hz · « **Reply #403 on:** December 11, 2013, 05:54 PM »

FWIW, Jupiter Broadcasting (home of Tech Snap and The Linux Action Show) have a weekly
video podcast (20 episodes and counting) devoted to crypto currencies. It's called Plan B and can be found here.

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Plan B is a weekly talk show contemplating the future and present of Bitcoin. With insights for the novice, shop talk for the expert, and opinionated discussion for the interested observer of bitcoin and related technologies.

RSS for podcatchers: http://feeds.feedburner.com/PlanBVideo

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #404 on:** December 11, 2013, 06:29 PM »

[attach=#]

Cashing in on the bitcoin boom

The bitcoin crash of 2013 - Don't you feel silly now?

tomos · « **Reply #405 on:** December 11, 2013, 08:59 PM »

Quote from: Arizona Hot on December 11, 2013, 06:29 PM

The bitcoin crash of 2013 - Don't you feel silly now?

Articles like this are just 'silly'.
Bitcoin is currently acting like a microcosm of the Stock Exchange - just that everything is all speeded up. It's also not unlike fiat money [only] in that they are both "money without intrinsic value".
So when people who otherwise accept the idea of fiat money, and invest in stocks - or anything along those lines - when these people get all high and mighty about Bitcoin and writing articles *against* it, I just think: hypocrisy. If they want to make an *argument* against it, that's obviously fine - but "Don't you feel silly now?" doesnt quite qualify there.

(FWIW I'm not "for" nor "against" Bitcoin).

Renegade · « **Reply #406 on:** December 12, 2013, 04:49 AM »

Quote from: bit on December 09, 2013, 08:29 PM

Why would I want to use a bit coin?

Payment processors charge 2~5% on every transaction. Crypto currency fees are optional, and much lower if you choose to pay the fee.

Payments are instant. Bank transfers can take several days.

You don't get payments blocked by a bank that wants to tell you what you can and cannot do with your own money.

You can pay anonymously.

Your money cannot be stolen from you through a bank bail-in as was done in Cyprus and as is now law in places like Canada.

Bitcoins are limited in supply so they are deflationary (increase in value - gain purchasing power) whereas fiat is unlimited and inflationary (you lose purchasing power over time).

You can send money to anyone, anywhere in the world with no restrictions on how much you send.

If you send more than $10,000 to anyone or to yourself across "borders", you don't have a bank tattling on you to a government that will label you a terrorist or drug dealer or put you on a watch list.

You can take your bitcoins with you when you fly and have as much as you want and there's nothing that airport security can do about it.

Bitcoins put YOU in charge of your money. Banks and governments can't force you to do anything you don't want to. e.g. You can buy anything you want or take your money anywhere you want or send it to whoever you want and they can't stop you.

You'd want to use bitcoins because they give you some freedom.

There are more reasons.

The real question is, "When you have the option to use bitcoins (or any decentralised, open source crypto currency), why would you ever want to use fiat?"

There is no good argument for using fiat over bitcoins. All the problems/objections have been solved. I've not read 1 single good or valid objection yet. And I've read a truckload on this.

tomos · « **Reply #407 on:** December 12, 2013, 10:17 AM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 12, 2013, 04:49 AM

Bitcoins are limited in supply so they are deflationary (increase in value - gain purchasing power) whereas fiat is unlimited and inflationary (you lose purchasing power over time).

This comparision may be true with regard to Bitcoin - but it's not true about crypto currencies in general. New ones keep appearing, and I see no reason why this should stop. The problem with this is exactly the same as with fiat currencies, except worse. As more and more (limitless) currencies, and units come into being, I see no reason that people will say "but Bitcoin is the best" - so Bitcoin and all other crypto currencies will become "inflationary" (i.e. lose value, possibly even becoming worthless).

Quote from: Renegade on December 12, 2013, 04:49 AM

The real question is, "When you have the option to use bitcoins (or any decentralised, open source crypto currency), why would you ever want to use fiat?"

as per my reasoning above, fiat has some sort of control over itself - cryptocurrencies do not.
(I'm not happy about this but as I said before, I just cant see a way that it can work. Dont mean that way isn't there... we'll see)

Renegade · « **Reply #408 on:** December 12, 2013, 01:32 PM »

Bitcoin = world reserve crypto currency

Alt coins = other currencies

No reason why that can't work at all. We'll just see a lot of currencies fail, and that's ok.

I trade crypto-crypto pairs. I do not trade fiat-crypto pairs. Why would I? I use the world reserve crypto currency (bitcoin) as my primary currency and I trade others.

As fiat currencies continue to be debased by governments and central banks, more people will flock to crypto currencies. It's happening now. People don't want their money to be worth less tomorrow. A bit of upwards volatility is preferable to certain demise.

tomos · « **Reply #409 on:** December 12, 2013, 03:23 PM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 12, 2013, 01:32 PM

Bitcoin = world reserve crypto currency

I'm not sure I understand: what would being a 'world reserve crypto currency' involve?
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.

wraith808 · « **Reply #410 on:** December 12, 2013, 04:38 PM »

Quote from: tomos on December 12, 2013, 03:23 PM

I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.

That's actually a great resource; you just have to realize that unlike fiat, the reserve is not held by one group. Because BC is the anchor for the trading in all of the other CCs, that's why he refers to it in that manner. At least, that was my understanding.

Renegade · « **Reply #411 on:** December 12, 2013, 04:52 PM »

Quote from: tomos on December 12, 2013, 03:23 PM

Quote from: Renegade on December 12, 2013, 01:32 PM
Bitcoin = world reserve crypto currency

I'm not sure I understand: what would being a 'world reserve crypto currency' involve?
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.

From the article:

Quote

A reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency that is held in significant quantities by governments and institutions as part of their foreign exchange reserves, and that is commonly used in international transactions.

Edited to make more sense:

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A reserve currency (or anchor currency) is a currency that is held in significant quantities by people as part of their savings, and that is commonly used in transactions.

Bitcoin fits that for the crypto world.

Don't worry about the specific details - they're not relevant. Look at the big picture. Or, take it as a metaphor. Either or.

Other than fiat, almost all currency pairs are in BTC, LTC, and XPM, with the vast, overwhelming majority in BTC.

Here's an edge case... If you want to buy Netcoins (NET), you need to buy them in LTC or XPM. So, if you want them, most likely you need to go from USD or EUR (or whatever) to BTC to LTC/XPM to NET.

But pretty much everyone deals in BTC.

DOGE coins are really new and catching on fast. They're really fun. Check the forum here:

http://doges.org/

Here's a joke from me in 1 thread:

http://doges.org/index.php?topic=469.msg2716#msg2716

Dogecoins are sold mostly for games or bitcoins right now. Again, back to bitcoins. It's the "reserve" of the crypto currency world. Everyone accepts it. Everyone deals in it. Most currency pairs include BTC.

I just mined a bunch of Lottocoins. If anyone wants some, I'm selling them for bitcoins.

(I'm keeping my dogecoins!)

But seriously - nobody measures alt crypto in anything but BTC. (When dealing with more than 1 crypto.)

Renegade · « **Reply #412 on:** December 12, 2013, 04:53 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on December 12, 2013, 04:38 PM

Quote from: tomos on December 12, 2013, 03:23 PM
I cant quite tie it in with the current definition of a reserve currency a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reserve_currency.

That's actually a great resource; you just have to realize that unlike fiat, the reserve is not held by one group. Because BC is the anchor for the trading in all of the other CCs, that's why he refers to it in that manner. At least, that was my understanding.

Yes.

You clicked post just a moment before I did.

tomos · « **Reply #413 on:** December 12, 2013, 09:39 PM »

^Thanks for clarifying.

Next: I'm wondering why you're so sure that Bitcoin will retain that reserve currency role?
In a world where there are ever more crypto currencies.

It's comparable to the current system - with the big difference that Bitcoin is limited.
Number of crypto currencies is not limited, so they will just fight it out and some will be successful, some not.
That could work out fine if one remains strong. But I'm struggling with 'why' - why Bitcoin? Simply because it was first? Is that good enough for the long haul?
I'm not convinced. And I'm not sure why others are.

I know it's an experiment and all that. And I suppose most people buying bitcoin arent particularly interested in the long term. And the best laid plans of anyone can take unexpected turns, so no-one can predict. But I kind of wish there was something more there - was this scenario (competition) considered by the creator(s)?

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #414 on:** December 12, 2013, 09:57 PM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 12, 2013, 04:49 AM

Quote from: bit on December 09, 2013, 08:29 PM
Why would I want to use a bit coin? It seems unsanitary, and they're not even real gold.

Payment processors charge 2~5% on every transaction. ... Bla Bla Bla

Ren... That was a pun...(bit = past tense of bite)...and a pretty good one too.

Would you please stop making me feel like jiminy Cricket.

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #415 on:** December 13, 2013, 04:22 AM »

Quote

When the FBI seizes millions of dollars in cash from some warehouse at the heart of an urban drug cartel, the money winds up in a government building somewhere and eventually finds its way into a government bank account, where it helps finance all sorts of government stuff, like the next FBI drug bust.

But what happens when the feds bust an online drug marketplace and confiscate millions of dollars in bitcoins, the wildly popular digital currency that doesn’t exactly align with the government’s way of doing things — and so often serves as a convenient means of money laundering? What will become of the $3.3 million in bitcoins the FBI seized after shutting down the Silk Road early last week — not to mention the $80 million or so in bitcoins they’ve yet to seize from the personal account of the man who allegedly ran the online drug bazaar?

The Ultimate Bitcoin Question Can the Feds Spend $3.3M in Seized Digital Currency?

Mark0 · « **Reply #416 on:** December 14, 2013, 05:05 PM »

Don't know if all here have already seen it, but I personally become hooked on Bitcoin after seeing this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE

This one also is less technical but present some possible interesting outcomes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDO7TDMlxsY

"On the blockchain, no one knows you are a fridge." - Richard Brown

x16wda · « **Reply #417 on:** December 14, 2013, 05:54 PM »

Mark0 - I appreciate the links - thanks!

Mark0 · « **Reply #418 on:** December 15, 2013, 03:20 PM »

Continuing in the (IMHO) interesting videos...

A Mike Hearn (a Bitcoin dev) presentation that show how a simple transaction like "give 1 BTC to Bob" is just the tip of the iceberg of what can be done with Bitcoin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD4L7xDNCmA

And here a bit of a leap in to an optimistic near future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu4PAMFPo5Y

wraith808 · « **Reply #419 on:** December 15, 2013, 03:43 PM »

Thanks Mark0... between you and Renegade, I'm coming over to that side of the fence...

Renegade · « **Reply #420 on:** December 16, 2013, 01:29 PM »

Here's a history of Bitcoin infographic. It is very large.

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/the-definitive-history-of-bitcoin-infographic.jpg

Not hot linking it for obvious reasons.

Renegade · « **Reply #421 on:** December 17, 2013, 02:05 PM »

Semi-quasi-pseudo-related...

http://www.millionaires-club-international.com/video/?s=pQliVvJDFF&lang=#.UrBYyfQW3up

Ðogecoin is another crypto currency. The video there is just subbing in dogecoin stuff.

Anyways, it's just part of the doge meme and Ðogecoin cryptocurrency, and funny, and the way they sub in the images and text in the video is just pretty damn cool.

wraith808 · « **Reply #422 on:** December 17, 2013, 05:17 PM »

Quote from: Renegade on December 16, 2013, 01:29 PM

Here's a history of Bitcoin infographic. It is very large.

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/the-definitive-history-of-bitcoin-infographic.jpg

Not hot linking it for obvious reasons.

That infographic is one of the best explanations I've seen. Thinking about getting into BC just so I can donate at some point

Arizona Hot · « **Reply #423 on:** December 17, 2013, 05:50 PM »

[attachthumb=#]

Why Bitcoin Will Never Be a Currency—in 2 Charts - Matthew O'Brien

More argument.

Mark0 · « **Reply #424 on:** December 17, 2013, 05:51 PM »

Check this: https://www.btproof.com/

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BTProof
Trusted timestamping on the Bitcoin blockchain

What is trusted timestamping?
Trusted timestamping allows to prove you held a document, some information or a file at some specific point in time, in a way that can't be forged. Read more at Wikipedia.

More trustworthy than any notary. Not to mention cheaper!

Someone just signed a marriage certificate & a photo.