I'm practicing how to make films

[superboyac]

I'll be practicing my film-making skills now.  Here are the first ones:

Los Angeles Refinery Fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp13qtQz23M

Spider Surprise!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtgwLNYhFY0

[mouser]

keep practicing. 

[superboyac]

keep practicing. 

Shush!!
I'm pissed.  For the fire one, I just found some Colbert footage that would have given it an ending.  One of my friends said she was waiting for an answer, which I never gave (because I didn't know)!  But she's right, gotta have an ending!

[TaoPhoenix]

So why not take it down and re-post it?

[superboyac]

Added an ending, I think it's more coherent now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgVkgJj7HW4

[40hz]

Hmm...electrical engineering, book publishing, jazz performance...I wonder just what SB is up to.

Maybe Tom Waits wrote this just for folks like Aram

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMqxNPsfN50

here's the lyrics

Tom Waits
Mule Variations (1999)

What's He Building?

What's he building in there?
What the hell is he building
In there?
He has subscriptions to those
Magazines... He never
Waves when he goes by
He's hiding something from
The rest of us... He's all
To himself... I think I know
Why... He took down the
Tire swing from the Peppertree
He has no children of his
Own you see... He has no dog
And he has no friends and
His lawn is dying... and
What about all those packages
He sends. What's he building in there?
With that hook light
On the stairs. What's he building
In there... I'll tell you one thing
He's not building a playhouse for
The children what's he building
In there?

Now what's that sound from under the door?
He's pounding nails into a
Hardwood floor... and I
Swear to god I heard someone
Moaning low... and I keep
Seeing the blue light of a
T.V. show...
He has a router
And a table saw... and you
Won't believe what Mr. Sticha saw
There's poison underneath the sink
Of course... But there's also
Enough formaldehyde to choke
A horse... What's he building
In there. What the hell is he
Building in there? I heard he
Has an ex-wife in some place
Called Mayors Income, Tennessee
And he used to have a
consulting business in Indonesia...
but what is he building in there?
What the hell is building in there?

He has no friends
But he gets a lot of mail
I'll bet he spent a little
Time in jail...
I heard he was up on the
Roof last night
Signaling with a flashlight
And what's that tune he's
Always whistling...
What's he building in there?
What's he building in there?

We have a right to know...

[Renegade]

I was watching them the other day, but never got back to posting...

If you could cut out some and shorten them, they'd be a lot better. You kind of just get the feeling that nothing is happening while you wait and wait and wait. Less is definitely more. Maybe some voice over or subtext could help to make things faster.

[superboyac]

I was watching them the other day, but never got back to posting...

If you could cut out some and shorten them, they'd be a lot better. You kind of just get the feeling that nothing is happening while you wait and wait and wait. Less is definitely more. Maybe some voice over or subtext could help to make things faster.

Yeah, i'm going to work on timing soon also.  I was matching the length of video to the length of music.  But I get more flexibility if I match the music to the video I want.  That way, I avoid the boredom.  Believe me, I bore myself also with the lengthy shots.  But I was proud of my first video clip with that camera.  Hopefully, I come across some more interesting visuals as I go around the city.  Fire is always fun.  Nice scenery can be nice, but not terribly fun.  I like bugs, as you can see.  I just caught this giant orb weaver I'm trying to figure out something to do with that.

[mahesh2k]

How about found footage movies? 

I felt like getting into this after watching VHS movie last week. 

[superboyac]

Hmm...electrical engineering, book publishing, jazz performance...I wonder just what SB is up to.

Maybe Tom Waits wrote this just for folks like Aram

Yeah!  that's pretty dead on.  Except he makes it sound so scary!
I really don't know what I'm building quite yet, but I would like to get good enough with the video production where I can quickly crank out short 1-5 minute things easily that have a professional quality look.  Then I can build more complex videos, and hopefully collaborate with some like minded individuals eventually that have their own skills and equipment.

[superboyac]

found footage movies

I'm not into those that much.  I actually don't even like the "theme" of that fire movie.  Like all the dramatic doomsday stuff, I find it boring.  But I couldn't think of anything else to do with that footage and it was the most interesting thing happening that day by far.


What I'd like to do is a combination of comedy/music/education in a beautiful presentation.  I'll soon be putting more footage of me playing piano up.  And I'll take requests!  As long as I like the music, though...

And I'd like to eventually try some voice over stuff.  I'm interested in voice changing software, I think my voice sounds boring.  My real *dream* is animation.  But I don't like 3D animation and I don't like flash animation.  The animation I prefer is the really difficult kind...the old classic Looney Tunes.  With the lush painted backdrops and the hand drawn lines, and that beautiful music.  But I don't think I'll ever get to play around with that, it's just too much.  That age is gone.

[40hz]

found footage movies

I'm not into those that much.  

That gladdens me somewhat.

I was never that into musique concrète or "mashup" approaches to art. Found art is ok. But to me it's nowhere near as powerful as something conceived, created, and directed by someone from scratch. Most collage and mashup art seems (to me) to be little more than playing with digital Colorforms. And about the best I can say about that (when it succeeds) is: "Hmm...interesting"  or "How clever!"

But that's not the same thing I'll get when I see a photo, painting, film, or hear a piece of music, that completely overwhelms me. It's just a whole 'nother experience.

True, you can get some interesting results juxtaposing found images and sounds together. But it always struck me as playing the odds rather than practicing the craft of one's art. There's jut something about it that feels a less genuine to me. And, much like those established authors who resort to being deliberately obscure with hopes people will think them profound, there's something about it that feels dishonest if it's claiming to be 'art.'

So yeah - shoot your own footage!

[tomos]

I'm wondering how the pros get relatively smooth handheld video - do they use a very heavy camera maybe?
40's comments made me think of Girl Talk - All Day. The music is mashup (I still like it :p). The footage is mostly handheld, I think (?) - around streets of NY
http://girlwalkallday.com/watch-the-film/all-aboard

there's a whole string of videos there. The cameraman (I think it is made by a bloke) follows her sometimes at very high speeds, sometimes at hip height, but it always seems quite smooth for handheld (of course maybe the trick is that it often isnt handheld )

Point is, I think that aspect is important and needs some work in your films superboyac. I've been photographing a fair bit for years now, and I feel like it's only in the last year or so that I've started framing shots very carefully and specifically/exactly the way I want it.

Lugging a tripod around would be a pain, but there are telescopic "monopods" that might be worth considering. I often just rest the camera on whatever is available, or jam it up against a wall, or pole, or anything that will stabilise it, for longer exposures. I know for video it will be different, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

[superboyac]

^^You say it well, as usual.

That's why my real secret sauce is going to be finding local like minded folk around.  A lot of us hobbyists have nice equipment, we just don't have ALL the nice equipment.  Like me, for example, I have a decent camcorder but not a great one.  Others have great ones, but they don't have the computer skills.  So if four or five of us get together, we can easily produce really great looking things for a fraction of the cost of the big boys.

[superboyac]

I'm wondering how the pros get relatively smooth handheld video - do they use a very heavy camera maybe?
40's comments made me think of Girl Talk - All Day. The music is mashup (I still like it :p). The footage is mostly handheld, I think (?) - around streets of NY
http://girlwalkallday.com/watch-the-film/all-aboard

there's a whole string of videos there. The cameraman (I think it is made by a bloke) follows her sometimes at very high speeds, sometimes at hip height, but it always seems quite smooth for handheld (of course maybe the trick is that it often isnt handheld )

Point is, I think that aspect is important and needs some work in your films superboyac. I've been photographing a fair bit for years now, and I feel like it's only in the last year or so that I've started framing shots very carefully and specifically/exactly the way I want it.

Lugging a tripod around would be a pain, but there are telescopic "monopods" that might be worth considering. I often just rest the camera on whatever is available, or jam it up against a wall, or pole, or anything that will stabilise it, for longer exposures. I know for video it will be different, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

stabilization, from what i know, is done in a variety of ways.  They have those digital stabilizers on cheap camcorders like mine, which is ok, but not awesome.  There are those camera crane things they have on studios (jibs?).  ad-hoc wheeled carts are easy and even done on pro studios.

But a couple of my favorite shows don't stabilize even.  They just use a steady hand and a little wiggle is fine, even effective, for certain styles.  See It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and Louie.

[superboyac]

i'd be interested in a one-legged tripod, like the sports sideline photographers use.  except i'd like a multi-directional wheel on the bottom and an easy way to move the camera up/down/left/right in real time on top smoothly.  Like maybe a nifty handle with some hydraulic resistance in it so it forces you to move it smoothly.

[40hz]

I'm wondering how the pros get relatively smooth handheld video - do they use a very heavy camera maybe?

For moving action, in addition to stabilizing systems built into the camera, they'll also either use something called a "steadycam" rig, or they'll roll the camera on a 'dolly' track - or operate it via a boom/crane.

The steadycam is exactly what you suggested. Its a counterweighted mounting system - usually attached to a harness or vest worn by the camera operator. The pro rigs cost a fortune. But DIY versions have become almost a cottage industry. So if you google:" make your own steadycam" you'll get a ton of hits for different versions film students and sites like MAKE and eHow have come up with. Pick one that looks doable and have at it! (Warning: it takes practice to get the best results. Just having a steadycam rig won't make everything smooth by itself. You have to work with it.

Looks like this:

[attachthumb=#]

There's tons more gadgets and gizmos you can make or buy. Just check out making movies or videos on YouTube or Google.

------------------------

To really be effective in setting up your shots however, you need to be aware of the visual lexicon movie directors use. These are ways to shoot things that film audiences have learned to understand and expect in a film. In the old days they'd throw obvious visual cues up on the screen (flipping calendars, lines moving on maps, asides to the audience) to let you know how to view the scene.

It's become more subtle today. You have things like "establishing shots" to quickly let the viewer know where and when the scene is taking place. You have foreshadowing shots to give them a subconscious "heads-up" about something coming in a later scene. Extreme tight close-ups sre used to create emotional intensity. Tracking shots to convey space and ''action." It goes on and on.

And you need to know about and how to use them. Not to say you're locked in. Hitchcock and other directors became famous by introducing new shots into the lexicon rather than breaking with established conventions. That's a subtle but important difference worth thinking about if you're the type that prides yourself on "breaking the rules."

OK. Book time! (Again.) Try to check out some of these:

IMO (and since I'm only an avid film viewer rather than a filmmaker, take it for what it's worth ) this is one of the best:

[attach]

[superboyac]

Thanks 40!  you are invaluable.

[mahesh2k]

My real *dream* is animation.  But I don't like 3D animation and I don't like flash animation.  The animation I prefer is the really difficult kind...the old classic Looney Tunes.  With the lush painted backdrops and the hand drawn lines, and that beautiful music.  But I don't think I'll ever get to play around with that, it's just too much.  That age is gone.

I don't think that vintage animation or art is gone. Take a look at storybird.com and see how many artists are making it. See if you can add the music around those slides and make your own music storybook? I mean your music+ the available storybird custom slides story.

[superboyac]

storybird.com

Cool site!  
I'll be spending some time there, thank you.

But I do feel that that age is largely gone.  I've begun reading about how they did those Looney Tunes, and nobody is even close to doing that now.  I'm not saying it was "better", it's just my strongly preferred way of cartooning.  The thing we will not get back is the amount of legwork it take to do those looney tunes.  A lot of things, like storybird cartoons and today's cartoons, can mimic the style, but they don't capture the soul.  Because nobody today is going to put in that kind of blood sweat and tears when you can come relatively close with today's technology, and 99.9% won't complain or notice.
Here's an example on John Kricfalusi's (Ren & Stimpy creator, one of the last few of the old school guys still out there) site:

Look at that background.  That's a hand painted background and it's gorgeous.  People are not going to do that anymore.  Because there are so many easier ways to get a background in now with Flash, or photoshop, so there's no point.  It's like 20x more labor.  But that backdrop really does it for me.  Not to mention the tight hand crafted animations.  That music is also full symphonic highly skilled music.  I've heard that the Family Guy big band is like Seth Macfarlane's real baby; he loves that band.  And even that is an easier and more "pop" version of those Carl Stalling numbers.  It's like we've replaced quality with quantity.  Which I'm very happy about since it gives guys like me a chance to participate more easily.  But I love that style, and I'd probably try my best to get it back if I could.

In comparison, here's a typical thing done today:


Now, I like it.  But you can tell they are (in a sense) substituting "cute" for what I'm calling "legwork".  Everything is hinted at.  Now, is that for intentional artistic effect?  yes and no.  yes because it's good and it works, no because it's not like that person could have pulled off the old school stuff.  COuld the old school guys have done that?  Yes, but they could also do the other.  And that makes the other better for me.  lol.  <--such a ridiculous explanation, I know.

just like my fire video...i substituted that dramatic music to cover up my lack of content or creativity.  I didn't have much to say other than, "Hey, look!  I have a nice camera and I saw a cool looking fire."  There really isn't much more to it.

[superboyac]

speaking of which, John K is crazy!!  cracks me up always:

It's kinda extra funny that the abuse in his cartoons is not very cartoony. Other cartoons use ridiculous things like bombs and dismemberment as visual metaphors for suffering. Crazy things that are hard for kids to emulate in real life. McKimson has loads of punishment that you could easily imitate and really hurt someone (or yourself) in the process! Thank God for McKimson, Popeye, UFC and the Three Stooges.

[mahesh2k]

I agree. The old ink and the perspective on the art is fading. I look at EU vintage art and feel the same. No more that holiday feel in the cards, cartoons or anything. I guess this is because many artists back in the time did this because they loved it and not because they were doing mass production like today's artists to meet their deadlines.

[40hz]

I agree. The old ink and the perspective on the art is fading. I look at EU vintage art and feel the same. No more that holiday feel in the cards, cartoons or anything. I guess this is because many artists back in the time did this because they loved it and not because they were doing mass production like today's artists to meet their deadlines.

And let's not forget the corrosive effect of unbridled "political correctness," cultural (hyper)sensitivity, plus the current wave of social and religious fundamentalism. (When was the last time you saw a devil costume on Halloween? I haven't seen one for at least 20 years now. It used to be one of the more popular characters when I was a kid. AFAIK they don't even sell them in the US any more. Same for the 'old hag' type witch. That's considered "insulting" to the elderly. Witch costumes - when you can find one - are now all cute and/or sexy.)

It's been said that if you don't have something nice to say it's best not to speak at all. Unfortunately, it's now reaching the point where virtually anything you say, or sing, or draw, or film, or do might offend somebody somewhere.

So the new rule, by extrapolation, seem to be that maybe it's best we not express ourselves - period.

And it can be seen in the chilling effect it's having on many people that do creative work for a living. "Safe art" rules the roost.

[40hz]

just like my fire video...i substituted that dramatic music to cover up my lack of content or creativity.  I didn't have much to say other than, "Hey, look!  I have a nice camera and I saw a cool looking fire."  There really isn't much more to it.

No fault in that! Just toss in $250 million worth of CGI effects, add in the obligatory high speed chase scene or two, and you'll have a spiffy American action movie. That formula has worked for the studios for years - except they also make it a point to have a 'recognized name' in the picture - along with an exceptionally attractive (preferably naked) female body - just to up the odds a bit.

So lets up your ratings here! Next time, put in some nekkid' women. Much cheaper than doing a car chase. And it captures eyeballs just as effectively. (BTW: I'm joking! sorta.)

Plot? Script? Story?

We don' need no steenkin' story!

[Renegade]

Good grief! Why not just fill a thread with gold!

There's simply too much in this thread to go on about -- I mean that in a very good way.

I was never that into musique concrète or "mashup" approaches to art. Found art is ok. But to me it's nowhere near as powerful as something conceived, created, and directed by someone from scratch. Most collage and mashup art seems (to me) to be little more than playing with digital Colorforms. And about the best I can say about that (when it succeeds) is: "Hmm...interesting"  or "How clever!"

In general, I think you're bang on there. Mashups are rarely very good.

That being said, I've seen a good number of documentary films that are mostly film clips, images, and audio clips put together in a coherent way, and with narrative over top. Some are piss-poor, while some are simply fantastic with brilliant execution.

I think doing a mashup well is just then all that much more difficult to pull off. 

Anyways, back to drinking and doing my own "art", which is a far cry away from the current art topic.