Author Topic: Sansa Clip+ and Rockbox (Read 69,151 times)

Deozaan · « **Reply #25 on:** March 07, 2012, 08:32 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 05, 2012, 07:13 PM

It is supplied with USB mode set to Mass Storage (MSC) (because Apple doesn't work with MTP mode).

Change the USB mode in the device itself to MTP and it works fine.

Press home and find Settings, go to System Settings and then USBMode - select MTP, plug it in to your PC and it should work.

I think it was on Auto Detect by default. I changed it to MTP and it doesn't seem to do anything except charge. But when I change it to MSC it finally showed up in Windows Explorer -- but I couldn't find any music files anywhere on it. All of the built-in directories are empty.

I took a look at it in WinDirStat to see where all the files are, in case they were hidden in an obscure Rockbox folder, but for some reason it is only showing about 450MBs of the 4GBs on the drive. Most of that is the free space. The rest is the Rockbox directory and anything else in the root directory. But wherever my music is hiding is. . . hidden. But not in the "Hidden Folders" sense of the word. I have my OS set to display hidden files and folders.

Does anyone else have any other tips on how to mount this thing as a normal USB storage device?

I did notice when I'm browsing the files on the Rockbox firmware that the music isn't in those directories either. It's in a folder called ##MUSIC# which then has the default categories (Albums, Audiobooks, Music, Playlists, etc.) in it. So how do I access this ##MUSIC# folder when Windows doesn't seem to recognize that it exists?

oblivion · « **Reply #26 on:** March 07, 2012, 09:14 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 07, 2012, 07:46 PM

There are ways to convert audible files but they are not straightforward and tedious (software) or very laborious - burn the books to CD and then rip them back to MP3 - trouble is each book can be between 6 and 10 CDs.

Not something I've tried -- I've never attempted Audible -- but can't Audacity save any audio your PC can play? So set it off to record your audiobook and come back... er... a few days later? Okay, I take your point

Innuendo · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2012, 04:05 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 07, 2012, 07:46 PM

There are ways to convert audible files but they are not straightforward and tedious (software) or very laborious - burn the books to CD and then rip them back to MP3 - trouble is each book can be between 6 and 10 CDs.

A quick Google reveals that there are a couple different methods that allow you to skip the burning step and go straight from Audible format to either wav or mp3. It seems most (but not all) methods involve using a codec called audibleMediaFilter.exe which allows you to load the audio book into other players and editors. I don't own any Audible products, however, so I cannot test.

oblivion · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:24 AM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 07, 2012, 07:46 PM

There are ways to convert audible files but they are not straightforward and tedious (software) or very laborious - burn the books to CD and then rip them back to MP3 - trouble is each book can be between 6 and 10 CDs.

Today's GiveAwayOfTheDay is a program that can record any audio your PC is playing -- might be easier to use than Audacity. It'd still be a slow solution, of course, but you could let your computer do it overnight with the speakers switched off, I guess...

One advantage Rockbox has for audiobooks and similar is its ability to speed things up at play-time, which could potentially mean you could get five hours audio listened to in four, as long as the reader wasn't already initially delivering at a nineteen-to-the-dozen rate, anyway

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2012, 11:42 AM »

I tried audibleMediaFilter.exe with Goldwave a good while ago and whilst it does work and is reasonably quick it is pretty flaky too.

The thought of recording whole books isn't an option - I have got hundreds and I would spend the rest of my life with the computer recording stuff.

By far the simplest solution is just to use audible compatible devices with suitable firmware.

xtabber · « **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2012, 12:13 PM »

Quote from: oblivion on March 06, 2012, 10:09 AM

However... all my problems with slow database updates are currently academic. Using my shiny new gadget in the car yesterday (connected to an FM transmitter that the car stereo is tuned to) I forgot to disconnect the wires when I got out of the car in the supermarket carpark. The audio cable got shut in the car door, the Clip unclipped and hit the ground and although I picked it up (with a few carefully chosen Words that would have even shocked any passing service personnel) I didn't discover until this morning that the 32Gb SD card is no longer in the device.

You might try looking inside the car on the off chance that the card actually popped out before the door shut on the wires. Admittedly not likely, but it won't cost you anything but some of your time.

Edvard · « **Reply #31 on:** March 11, 2012, 02:20 AM »

Quote from: Deozaan on March 07, 2012, 08:32 PM

...
So how do I access this ##MUSIC# folder when Windows doesn't seem to recognize that it exists?

Don't know how to do it in Windows, but I see the ##MUSIC# folder plain as day from Linux. :troll:

Try opening a command window and using the good ol' DIR command.
DIR /AH to see hidden files
DIR /X to see the 8.3 names (sometimes quite handy)

EDIT:
Just booted into Windows 7 on my son's laptop, and the folder in question is there, not hidden.
Inside is the standard list of folders (audiobook, music, playlists, etc.). :shrug:
DIR /AH came up with "DID.bin" (the firmware, I presume) and a folder named FOUND.000.
In there are a bunch of files named "FILE[4 sequential numbers].CHK" that are taking up a surprising bit of room (303 Megs)
Dunno what they're for, and not about to just erase stuff willy-nilly to see what happens.

Beats me...

Deozaan · « **Reply #32 on:** March 11, 2012, 05:19 AM »

Quote from: Edvard on March 11, 2012, 02:20 AM

Just booted into Windows 7 on my son's laptop, and the folder in question is there, not hidden.

Thanks for the tip. Now that I know how to change USB Mount method, I'll hook it up to my Win7 machine and give it a try.

Quote from: Edvard on March 11, 2012, 02:20 AM

DIR /AH came up with "DID.bin" (the firmware, I presume) and a folder named FOUND.000.
In there are a bunch of files named "FILE[4 sequential numbers].CHK" that are taking up a surprising bit of room (303 Megs)
Dunno what they're for, and not about to just erase stuff willy-nilly to see what happens.

AFAIK the FOUND.000 folder and its files are created when scandisk/chkdsk found some sort of problem and decided to move/rename a bunch of files rather than delete them. One time I thought I lost my entire music collection after a checkdisk, but found all the files in one of those FOUND.000 folders.

oblivion · « **Reply #33 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:33 AM »

Quote from: Edvard on March 11, 2012, 02:20 AM

DIR /AH came up with "DID.bin" (the firmware, I presume) and a folder named FOUND.000.
In there are a bunch of files named "FILE[4 sequential numbers].CHK" that are taking up a surprising bit of room (303 Megs)
Dunno what they're for, and not about to just erase stuff willy-nilly to see what happens.

They are indeed the results of a chkdsk /f when there's a load of unattributed clusters to be dealt with.

A FAT-type format stores the details of the files on the disk in a File Allocation Table. If a disk is removed before the FAT is properly updated, you can get a situation where chunks of disk are allocated to files but the details of what they are and where they belong have not been stored.

The .chk files are likely to be all your music files. You might try renaming them all to .mp3 (ren *.chk *.mp3 from a command prompt in the \found.000 folder) and then pointing something with the ability to read the id tags and rename files accordingly at them. Mediamonkey can, but so can lots of other things.

Or just delete them and recopy from source.

oblivion · « **Reply #34 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:57 PM »

Okay, my bank account is groaning a bit but I've now replaced the lost SD card.

Before I started anything, I made sure I used the Sandisk recommendation and formatted it with 32k allocation units.

I'm probably a bit more au fait with things than I was when I first started this thread, but I'm still having a lot of trouble with playlists.

The Rockbox manual doesn't go into much detail, sadly, but I want to create a Rockbox equivalent of the "Random Play All" option on my Creative Zen. That seems to mean I should create a playlist containing everything on the player (or rather, everything in the music database) and then assign a shortcut to it. Ideally, I should be able to invoke the shuffle function before playback starts but (equally ideally) I don't want the player to get left in shuffle mode when I decide I want to play another playlist, or an album or something.

And of course I've fallen at the first hurdle. I can't work out how to create the "everything" list in the first place. Has anyone here with more experience with Rockbox than me got any idea what I should be doing?

superboyac · « **Reply #35 on:** March 13, 2012, 06:04 PM »

Quote from: oblivion on March 13, 2012, 05:57 PM

Okay, my bank account is groaning a bit but I've now replaced the lost SD card.

Before I started anything, I made sure I used the Sandisk recommendation and formatted it with 32k allocation units.

I'm probably a bit more au fait with things than I was when I first started this thread, but I'm still having a lot of trouble with playlists.

The Rockbox manual doesn't go into much detail, sadly, but I want to create a Rockbox equivalent of the "Random Play All" option on my Creative Zen. That seems to mean I should create a playlist containing everything on the player (or rather, everything in the music database) and then assign a shortcut to it. Ideally, I should be able to invoke the shuffle function before playback starts but (equally ideally) I don't want the player to get left in shuffle mode when I decide I want to play another playlist, or an album or something.

And of course I've fallen at the first hurdle. I can't work out how to create the "everything" list in the first place. Has anyone here with more experience with Rockbox than me got any idea what I should be doing?

It's a good question and it's something I always want to do also. i think rockbox can do it, but I haven't figured it out yet. usually, I'll go into the category or folder I want and turn on the shuffle play option. But doing it your way is better, if it were easy to do. Playlist management on mp3 players has always been that needle in the hatstack feature. Most players have no support for playlist creation and control, and if they do, it's very limited. The good reviewers always make a point to emphasize the playlist features since that makes or breaks the player for a lot of people.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #36 on:** March 13, 2012, 11:26 PM »

The standard firmware does that when you click Play All !

oblivion · « **Reply #37 on:** March 14, 2012, 06:37 AM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 13, 2012, 11:26 PM

The standard firmware does that when you click Play All !

The Rockbox stuff -- particularly the wonderful equaliser and the bookmarking features -- still make it the better of the two environments. (And the database update is MUCH faster and less unnecessarily frequent, important when I'm back to a 95% full 40Gb device!)

Deozaan · « **Reply #38 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:19 AM »

Quote from: Deozaan on March 11, 2012, 05:19 AM

Quote from: Edvard on March 11, 2012, 02:20 AM
Just booted into Windows 7 on my son's laptop, and the folder in question is there, not hidden.

Thanks for the tip. Now that I know how to change USB Mount method, I'll hook it up to my Win7 machine and give it a try.

Well I just tried it on my Win7 machine and I still don't see the ##MUSIC# folder. What I ended up doing was letting it mount the default way (MTP, which stores the files in ##MUSIC#) and then moved all my music from the device, then remounted it as the non-default way (MSC) and moved my music back onto the device into the Music folder.

Now that that's sorted it all works as it should.

40hz · « **Reply #39 on:** March 14, 2012, 04:54 PM »

Question for you Rockbox/Sansa mavens:

I was recently given a lovely 2GB Sansa Model e250v2. Love it. But it's one of the Sansas that shipped with Rhapsody included. It's running version 03.01.16A software.

Do the Sansas that came with Rhapsody have the same onboard software as the ones that didn't. Or can you convert a Sansa Rhapsody version to a standard Sansa player if they're not?

Any good URLs or other info would be appreciated. Thx.

superboyac · « **Reply #40 on:** March 14, 2012, 07:19 PM »

40, from what I can tell, the Rhapsody models are different. It doesn't sound like you can convert one to the other. And I'm sure you've seen by now that Rockbox is not supported either. Look at this thread (mind you, this is 4 years old):
http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php?topic=14833.25

Quote

Now be aware, the Rhapsody and Non Rhapsody firmware is not interchangable, nor are the installation instructions for Rockbox the same. But if you have 1.x.x.x firmware on your Sansa E200 or E200R you can install Rockbox on it.

If your firmware version is a 3.x.x.x version number, you are hosed. It is a V2 version of the player and while there is ongoing effort to port Rockbox to the V2's it's going to take a lot longer to do so (if at all) than the V1's because the V1's were based on the Portaplayer chipset, which already had a Rockbox port for it on another player. The Chipset for the V2's are known, but there are no other Rockbox players out there utilizing that chipset, so the Rockbox port may or may not take place. (just like the 2nd gen Ipod Nano's and above aren't supported, and are unlikely to be in the near future)

40hz · « **Reply #41 on:** March 14, 2012, 08:00 PM »

@SB - thanks for the feedback. That's pretty much what I was able to find out too.

Oh well. Not really a problem since it sounds great (really great actually

) and works just fine the way it is. I was, however, hoping I wouldn't have to install that lousy software Sansa gives you to access it's library functions.

Switching the USB mode lets the directories show up under Windows 7 and Linux so hopefully I can do a drag and drop and the titles database will automatically scan and update. If not, I guess I'll have to use Sansa's utility. If I do I'll probably just load this puppy up with decent tunes and then uninstall the Sansa software.

Besides, beneficiaries of a freebie shouldn't complain, right?

----------------

Update: Yup. Switching USB mode to MTP let's you get into it via Windows Explorer. If you drag and drop, the database rescans when you disconnect the USB cable and all works as it should. You just need to remember the folder hierarchy, which is your standard <artist><album><song> arrangement.

Woo-hoo! Nice little MP3 player! And the price was right too.

superboyac · « **Reply #42 on:** March 14, 2012, 08:09 PM »

That's not a bad freebie at all! These sandisk players really do sound great.

I'm still searching for the perfect player. I've tried a whole bunch, and they each have their good features. Sony has great sound, great preamps, and probably the best tactile buttons in the biz...but a lot of proprietary annoyances. ipod touches are super easy to use, is built great, but if you have a geek bone at all, you will soon start hearing your expletives fly (uber-proprietary cables, no control on tagging). Sandisks (rockboxable versions) are by far the best bang for the buck. No real complaints there except for the cheap construction and poor preamps. The next one I'm going to try is the Cowon J3, which a lot of people consider one of the better players ever made.

40hz · « **Reply #43 on:** March 14, 2012, 08:31 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on March 14, 2012, 08:09 PM

The next one I'm going to try is the Cowon J3, which a lot of people consider one of the better players ever made.

If you do, let me know how you make out? It supports FLAC natively which would be a big plus for me. Nice size too. 56x106x10mm? Pretty svelte for the specs it's claiming.

A little pricey at $260 for 32Gb (which puts it out of my range for something to try just out of curiosity) - but I guess you get what you pay for with this type of product. And this little bugger is reporting some awfully impressive features and specs. (An 11 hour video runtime on full battery? To me. that's impressive.)

superboyac · « **Reply #44 on:** March 14, 2012, 09:01 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on March 14, 2012, 08:31 PM

Quote from: superboyac on March 14, 2012, 08:09 PM
The next one I'm going to try is the Cowon J3, which a lot of people consider one of the better players ever made.

If you do, let me know how you make out? It supports FLAC natively which would be a big plus for me. Nice size too. 56x106x10mm? Pretty svelte for the specs it's claiming.

A little pricey at $260 for 32Gb (which puts it out of my range for something to try just out of curiosity) - but I guess you get what you pay for with this type of product. And this little bugger is reporting some awfully impressive features and specs. (An 11 hour video runtime on full battery? To me. that's impressive.)

I've been holding out for 2 years for the same reason, price. But everything else has got me aching for it. it sure does seem like you get what you pay for when it comes to build quality and high quality audio components. sansa doesn't have either, but what they do have is an ecosystem that far more friendly to geeks than any other. Their audio quality is good enough for the price and you "get to do" a lot of things with it. However, when my sony and sansa are sitting together, I'll grab the sony.

Anyway, I'm going to get it and report back. i got the ipod touch for my mom, and she appeared to love it. Now my dad is asking for something to play his patriotic Armenian music on while he works in the garden, so I think I'll get the J3 for him. As for me...i have my eye on a raspberry pi and what people are going to do with those.

Edvard · « **Reply #45 on:** March 16, 2012, 09:55 AM »

Okay, from what I can tell, the big random playlist function is in Plugins.

From the home screen, go Plugins -> Applications -> random_folder_advance_config.
Start it and hit "Generate Folder List".
When that's done, go down one to "Edit List".
Down and Up navigate the list, Right button or Main button clears an entry, holding down the Main button activates the context menu, and Left-Button exits Edit mode.
After exiting Edit mode, it will ask you to confirm or ignore changes.
After that, scroll down to "Play Shuffled".
Voila!

EDIT:Apparently 'shuffled' means it randomizes the list of folders, and plays everything in a folder before moving on to another random folder, rather than playing random songs.
More details here:
http://www.rockbox.org/wiki/PluginRandomFolderAdvanceConfig

What I would do is generate a giant M3U playlist of what's on your player (most media players like WMP should be able to do that), load that into your Rockbox Playlist folder, and select "Shuffle" from the "Playback Settings" menu.

oblivion · « **Reply #46 on:** March 16, 2012, 02:47 PM »

Quote from: Edvard on March 16, 2012, 09:55 AM

After that, scroll down to "Play Shuffled".
Voila!

I tried that. It threw an awful lot of "error accessing directory" messages at me before it started playing anything.

Then I read on...

Quote

EDIT:Apparently 'shuffled' means it randomizes the list of folders, and plays everything in a folder before moving on to another random folder, rather than playing random songs.

I'd saved the current playlist to a playlist called "all" and only then noticed that it only contained 16 songs before reading this bit, of course.

Quote

What I would do is generate a giant M3U playlist of what's on your player (most media players like WMP should be able to do that), load that into your Rockbox Playlist folder, and select "Shuffle" from the "Playback Settings" menu.

That's the next plan.

There's always an issue with "Play All" stuff when some of the members of "all" are podcasts or other less than musical items. At least if I do it that way, I can make sure there's nothing I don't want -- although of course every time I add something the list will have to be regenerated!

Anyway, thanks, Edvard! At least I know it's not just me missing the obvious somewhere (which was always a major possibility!)

[EDIT]

...of course, an exported m3u playlist will have local (to the PC that did it) paths for the music that won't match what the player sees, so I'll have to work out (probably by generating a few small playlists from various folders in the internal and external memory what the player expects then do a couple of massive search and replaces...

This is definitely Too Complicated. So, for all the advantages of Rockbox (playing solitaire on an mp3 player is definitely a new experience for me!) it's probably still well in the "techies only" camp...

saratoga2 · « **Reply #47 on:** March 16, 2012, 06:47 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on March 14, 2012, 04:54 PM

Question for you Rockbox/Sansa mavens:

I was recently given a lovely 2GB Sansa Model e250v2. Love it. But it's one of the Sansas that shipped with Rhapsody included. It's running version 03.01.16A software.

Theres no such thing as Rhaposdy e250v2. There are install directions for your player in it's respective rockbox manual.

Quote from: superboyac on March 14, 2012, 07:19 PM

And I'm sure you've seen by now that Rockbox is not supported either.

You can find a list of supported targets here:

http://www.rockbox.org

Note that it does include the e200 series and has for many years now

superboyac · « **Reply #48 on:** March 16, 2012, 06:49 PM »

Quote from: saratoga2 on March 16, 2012, 06:47 PM

Quote from: 40hz on March 14, 2012, 04:54 PM
Question for you Rockbox/Sansa mavens:

I was recently given a lovely 2GB Sansa Model e250v2. Love it. But it's one of the Sansas that shipped with Rhapsody included. It's running version 03.01.16A software.

Theres no such thing as Rhaposdy e250v2. There are install directions for your player in it's respective rockbox manual.

Quote from: superboyac on March 14, 2012, 07:19 PM
And I'm sure you've seen by now that Rockbox is not supported either.

You can find a list of supported targets here:

http://www.rockbox.org

Note that it does include the e200 series and has for many years now

saratoga2 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 16, 2012, 06:50 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on March 14, 2012, 08:09 PM

No real complaints there except for the cheap construction and poor preamps.

I agree that the construction feels cheap on the Sansa series (particularly the Fuze players), but I don't follow the "poor preamps" remark. The clip does not include a preamp (it does not even have a line out).