But if you give your kids nook or kindle before paperback book then i guess they'll pick these tablets over paperback. Coolness factor and complexity attracts more to human mind sometimes. I think we're stuck in between pre-internet and high noise internet age. That makes us feel weird about the whole ebook vs paperback stuff.

I wonder.  Just like I wonder sometimes if she'll feel the same way I did on that day when I took her into Barnes and Noble for the first time someday.  I've always loved bookstores... the small bookstores before the big chains came out.  I remember this old used book store that I'd go in and stay for hours just looking through pulp paperback books- the 99 cent kind on the cheap paper that if you dogeared them a crack would appear in the fold.  And just sitting there, reading.  And when I'd get home, I'd have this stack of books that I'd watch dwindle as I read them.

I still read- and the upside is that if I get the desire to read a book again (I do that very often) then I have the new and the old with me all the time.  I don't have to search through books to find the one I'm looking for- I just type in the name, and there it is.  I don't have to spend hours looking through books or going to stores- I just browse to it on the internet and hit buy and then it's on my device.  And if I move again, half of my moving charge won't be because of books- I remember one of my moves where they quoted me half the price the end cost was, and the difference was because of the sheer volume of books.  I also remember a move in which I had to leave behind quite a few books because I just didn't have the space or money to keep them. 

But seeing her sense of wonder when we went to the bookstore really made me realize what I'd lost to get the advantages.

Everything is a trade off, and this is no exception.  Everything is a choice, and everyone should have the opportunity to make their own.

But I guess my point from the other side is, in a lot of cases in the drive to make sure that the corporations don't get what they want, and the drive to make our voices heard, we forget that not all done is bad, other people have differing opinions even as far as our opinions are concerned, and that we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It's fine that we might say that "If there isn't a DRM-free version, I won't buy it."  It's not fine IMO if we say, "You can't offer it unless you offer a DRM-free version."

Would I like there to be no DRM?  Sure!  I'd also like if people would pay without DRM, and companies would trust that, and the people that made the content would trust that.  But we don't live in that world, and if the choice is being able to take advantage of the convenience with DRM, or not having the content, at this point, I'd choose having the DRM.  There are things that they could do to change this, and I've run afoul DRM before.  But I'm willing to take the risk- and that should be OK.

There is a rapidly growing 'digtal only' library of books appearing.

The market will support what the market will support.  And if the market speaks towards a digital only segment, then that's what the market will get.  Many readers don't have e-readers.  And I don't think that portion will be so easily silenced.

Carol's comment (above) might not seem quite so far-fetched as one might think if you look at what has been described as "the obscenity of selling bottled water"

The other point about bottled water is that the water quality standards and health standards are much lower for bottled water (at least in the EU - don't know about other places) allowing more bacteria and greater chemical content than utility supplied water,

Maybe it's not going to be too long before the air we breathe is going to be packaged and sold to us as "pure" air

It already is in some Japanese cities and has been for some time.

The other point about bottled water is that the water quality standards and health standards are much lower for bottled water (at least in the EU - don't know about other places) allowing more bacteria and greater chemical content than utility supplied water,

Yes, the same (low water quality standards and health standards) is true for "pure" New Zealand bottled water. I wouldn't touch any of it with a bargepole anyway, for a whole raft of reasons, regardless of its supposed source.
I think it was a year or so ago that one NZ manufacturer of bottled water was found to be just bottling tap water and selling it as "pure NZ spring water".

Come to think of it, the only bottled water that I would consider buying would be mineral waters, but only where it came in glass bottles and where I personally have checked out the bona fides of the source - e.g., from Trefriw Wells Spa (the old Roman mineral water caves) in North Wales, and Malvern Water from the springs in the Malvern hills (bottled originally by Schweppes, now part of the Coca-Cola Corporation).

Ah thanks for the searches/links - but that's not "fresh air" is it? -  it's apparently oxygen.
I think there has long been a market for oxygen - I recall that it's recognised as being a harmless pick-me-up when you are tired or suffering from hangover. I had a neighbour with MS who breathed oxygen whilst she sat in a hyperbaric chamber. It apparently worked very well to increase the oxygen uptake and alleviate the symptoms she suffered from.

And don't be too hard on Coca Cola.
We created that.
Coca Cola Corp. is just another psychopathic Frankenstinian monster our society has created. It's a very efficient psychopath too. So, it should not surprise us to find that Coca Cola are apparently doing something like taking the water away from impoverished communities and packaging it to be sent to America and Europe. Those actions would be typically characteristic of an efficient psychopathic corporation.

If you want to fix it, then fix the legal system that created it, not the creation itself - i.e., address the causal problem rather than the symptomatic problem. Meanwhile, that system continues to robotically create and support these licenced psychopathic legal entities, and teaches our society to value them highly as "successful corporations".

If you watched the movie "The Corporation", then you would have seen towards the end that they show how whole communities have daringly banded together to control these monsters in their midst, and make them less harmful and more beneficial to the community, humans and the environment.

I found it fascinating stuff to watch. I learned a lot. Showed it to my daughter Lily when she was 9. In discussion, it later became evident that she had thoughtfully absorbed the film in rather a balanced fashion. We still discuss it from time to time.

I think fear of ebook taking over the paperback is no different than people who fear cloud music services taking over the traditional media formats. We're seeing this type of change since 2002, when mp3.com and lycos rhapsody changed the music distribution on the web. DRM was repelled by both artists and the consumers alike and the notorious lobby of RIAA and agents failed to control the media formats with the excuse of piracy.Thanks to all those warez and hackers for keeping mp3 format alive today despite the cloud attacks from various services. I think same will happen with ebook formats and people will still prefer paperbacks for some type of books.

Looks like the niche must be pretty big, so Amazon could have some competition on their hands:

• Contently Provides An Open Marketplace for Writers and Publishers To Connect
• Google ebookstore - and they are basing delivery on the iriver Story HD™ reader.

Yet here we seem to have B&N on another (consumer-beneficial?) tack: Barnes & Noble Revealing Microsoft's 'Secret' Patents, Which It Believes Cover Android

Beyond revealing more of the patents, the company, in its filings, makes it clear what it believes Microsoft is doing:
Instead of focusing on innovation and the development of new products for consumers, Microsoft has decided to invest its efforts into driving open source developers from the mobile operating systems market. Through the use of offensive licensing agreements and the demand for unreasonable licensing fees, Microsoft is hindering creativity in the mobile operating systems market.... Through the use of oppressive licensing terms that amount to a veto power over a wide variety of innovative features in Android devices of all kinds, as well as its prohibitively expensive licensing fees, Microsoft is attempting to push open source software developers out of the market altogether.

Presumably contracts are for a certain length of time and not in-perpetuity - what happens when the big six publishers finally realise that Amazon has them in a headlock and they don't renew their contract? Presumably a lot of blank Kindles ????

I don't think it's that easy.  It's the DRM that's the problem, not the Kindle.  I think the point is that the DRM is driving sales of the Kindle over other devices as the DRM is kindle specific, rather than, for lack of a better word, open.  So people get locked into the platform.  Sort of like the way DRM on music used to work.  But the same out exists for them- remove the DRM.

Obligatory disclaimer - 40hz is not affiliated with Bandcamp. But if my GF ever gets her band together, I'm going to seriously push her to use these guys. If something like this had been available when I was working as a professional musician...well...I'd still be working as one! :mrgreen

Oh really??  Looks like I need to seriously consider it.  Thanks buddy!

Quote from: Carol Haynes on November 30, 2011, 09:48 AM

Presumably contracts are for a certain length of time and not in-perpetuity - what happens when the big six publishers finally realise that Amazon has them in a headlock and they don't renew their contract? Presumably a lot of blank Kindles ????

I don't think it's that easy.  It's the DRM that's the problem, not the Kindle.  I think the point is that the DRM is driving sales of the Kindle over other devices as the DRM is kindle specific, rather than, for lack of a better word, open.  So people get locked into the platform.  Sort of like the way DRM on music used to work.  But the same out exists for them- remove the DRM.

+1 for what @Carol Haynes says.   
+1 for what @wraith808 link says.     

The reason I say this is that the Kindle does not meet  my criteria 3, 5, 6, 7a, 7b, 11 (see list below). In particular, the demonstrated capacity for Amazon to unilaterally and silently hack into your Kindle and their ruthless (psychopathic) pursuit of DRM in so doing beggars belief. It could well end up as "an empty Kindle", and the customer would have little or no recourse for remediation/restitution under the contract. I would not be in my right mind if I purchased a Kindle for my use.

I am prone to being a bit of a technology junkie, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I lose my sense of self-control or reason over it. For me, it is really quite pragmatic - it's typically about the implementation and alignment of information management with general information theory. That includes/covers things such as, for example, PCs/laptops, cameras, scanners, printers, memory sticks, and software for these things, and even related processes and discussion forums (like this one).

I am very critical of the quality, design and purposes of most new technology. I tend towards a minimalist approach. The technology that I acquire usually has to meet some general benefit and function criteria. I usually put it through a PMI (Plus, Minus, Interesting - per De Bono) review before I acquire it. The PMI will cover these pretty basic requirements:

• #1: Input: Does it improve my current processes of data/information/knowledge gathering?
• #2: Processing (includes Output): Does it improve my current processing methods?
• #3: Storage/backup: Does it improve my current processes of storage or backup/recovery?
• #4: Quality: Is it technically sound, well-designed and well-made for its purpose?
• #5: Support: Is it likely to have some reasonable degree of continuing support?
• #6: Reliability: Can I trust the provider to be delivering something of reasonable quality and that he will not rip me off (i.e., make a victim of the customer)?
• #7a: Use - Ergonomics (and efficiency): Does it at least meet my current ergonomic requirements?
• #7b: Use - Control: Will I have full, free and unencumbered control over the technology, to use as I need/please?
• #8: Cost: What is the cost, and does it seem reasonable?
• #9: Change: Will the use of the technology effect/necessitate a change for the better in the way I do things?
• #10: Deficiencies: How is it deficient in light of the above criteria, or in any other way?
• #11: Trade-off/compromise: What deficiencies are worth accepting in order to realise the improvements/benefits of using this technology?