Author Topic: How long will it take you to adopt Windows Vista as your OS? (Read 54,243 times)

f0dder · « **Reply #25 on:** March 19, 2006, 05:31 AM »

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It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank.

I prefer women that are beatiful WITHOUT makeup, but are drop-dead gorgeous with. Vista is a case of "I can live with this skank when she has a couple of pounds of makeup on".

You might not think much of DRM right now and shrug it off as a "It's only the pirates worrying about this". I happen to think differently... I rip all my CDs to lossless audio format (APE or FLAC which sure as hell do NOT do DRM). If Microsoft has their way, I will not be able to do this in the future. Heck, some of my legally purchased CDs I've only been able to rip because I have a plextor drive and plextools. MS and friends are currently developing technologies that will only allow you to have audio output if you output is connected to a "verified device" - much worse than what's currently done with digital out on SPDIF devices.

It's all technology that fooks over regular users, but won't be much of a hindrance for pirates.

Just say NO NO NO and NO NO NO to VISTA. Unless, of course, you love eyecandy and 1984.

kimmchii · « **Reply #26 on:** March 19, 2006, 05:45 AM »

i am worried about 32bit vs 64bit.
we are forced to upgrade if all software only available in 64 bit in the future.

nudone · « **Reply #27 on:** March 19, 2006, 07:43 AM »

point taken about windowblinds, darwin. i wonder how common it is to install these kinds of programs only to remove them when the novelty is gone. windows classic stays on my machine for 350 days of the year it seems. i don't think any skinning program will ever fully satisfy me as they seem to have glitches here and there - i need gui perfection - and so, there is only the 'classic' look that works 100%. i was just hoping that vista's theme would be just as perfect, i.e. every single button, scroll bar, menu, etc, etc. would be perfectly positioned and clean, regardless of the program windows in view. time will tell.

does anyone know if vista will also have the 'classic' look available?

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #28 on:** March 19, 2006, 11:04 AM »

Quote from: f0dder on March 19, 2006, 05:31 AM

Quote
It's the difference between a real woman and a slattern, I'd much rather look at an attractive woman than be repelled by a skank.
I prefer women that are beatiful WITHOUT makeup, but are drop-dead gorgeous with. Vista is a case of "I can live with this skank when she has a couple of pounds of makeup on".

Is it just me that finds these comments slightly offensive? Some of us may not be much to look at but we are human beings with the same emotions as everyone else (and perhaps a little more grey matter than women who spend 90% of the time in beauty parlours, in front of the mirror or having surgery).

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #29 on:** March 19, 2006, 11:05 AM »

Quote from: Cpilot on March 19, 2006, 02:55 AM

The only real way to deal with it is to pay attention to the legislation being proposed and make your opinion known.

ROFLMAO - this must be the funiest quote of the day !!!

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #30 on:** March 19, 2006, 11:08 AM »

Quote from: nudone on March 19, 2006, 07:43 AM

i don't think any skinning program will ever fully satisfy me as they seem to have glitches here and there - i need gui perfection - and so, there is only the 'classic' look that works 100%.

I think the glitches are ironed out now but ironically there were quite a few apps when XP was released that refused to work properly with the 'classic' look. Doubtless when Vista is released there will be apps that only support the new eyecandy (assuming there is a candy free version).

mouser · « **Reply #31 on:** March 19, 2006, 06:42 PM »

does drm really have anything to do with windows vista? i mean whatever drm technologies they add to drm will surely be added to the media player software, etc. its not like the operating system is going to make the drm situation better or worse one way or the other as far as i know.

best solution to drm madness i guess is to boycott content protected with drm.

kimmchii · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2006, 09:53 PM »

Quote from: mouser on March 19, 2006, 06:42 PM

does drm really have anything to do with windows vista? i mean whatever drm technologies they add to drm will surely be added to the media player software, etc. its not like the operating system is going to make the drm situation better or worse one way or the other as far as i know.

best solution to drm madness i guess is to boycott content protected with drm.

vista not only has software drm, it also has hardware drm, and everytime you change the motherboard, you need to purchase a new windows licence.

stansrailpix · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2006, 09:58 PM »

I would wait until until the bugs are worked out. It is Microsoft !!

nowshining · « **Reply #34 on:** March 20, 2006, 12:54 AM »

Won't use because of DRM = DIgital rights management, Wait until its taken out or given FREE to me..

I never payed for xp pro. Dell reinstallation disk from the warehouse where my father works as it was given up and worked fine withouth reactivating on my dell pc. (i have a optiplex gx300). My father works at a homeless center warehouse where they take items that businesses bring for a tax writeoff..

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #35 on:** March 20, 2006, 09:31 AM »

Quote from: kimmchii on March 19, 2006, 09:53 PM

vista not only has software drm, it also has hardware drm, and everytime you change the motherboard, you need to purchase a new windows licence.

I hadn't seen this - are you seriously saying that any change of mobo (even a failure) means you lose your copy of Vista completely?

I seem to remember MS saying you couldn't move XP from one machine to another because activation wouldn't let you. In practice you can reactivate XP as often as you like on as many machines as you like provided you allow 90 days between activations. Even simpler is to phone MS and tell them your machine is hosed and you have bought a new one. If your license isn't OEM there isn't a problem moving XP.

I find it hard to believe that MS would be stupid enough to lock non-OEM Vista to one set of hardware and force the purchase of a new license when a chip blows. If they are planning this then they are seriously shooting themselves in the foot as a lot of computer enthusiasts simply won't do it, and businesses probably won't either once support staff spot the issue.

"Oh it's not working, nasty burning smell, oh I see it is just that 50 cent chip - just a tick I'll just swap your mobo - by the way, have you got a credit card it'll cost you $400 for a new license for Windows?"

mrainey · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2006, 12:06 PM »

Quote

Is it just me that finds these comments slightly offensive?

It does take away from my enjoyment of the forum when I come across stuff like this.

kimmchii · « **Reply #37 on:** March 21, 2006, 12:34 AM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 20, 2006, 09:31 AM

I hadn't seen this - are you seriously saying that any change of mobo (even a failure) means you lose your copy of Vista completely?

sorry for the wrong info, i think the new licence agreement applies to XP as well.

2/15/2006 Microsoft: Upgraded Motherboard = New Windows Licence

Microsoft recently made a change to the licence agreement saying that a new motherboard is equal to a new computer, hence you need to purchase a new Windows licence.

Here is what Microsoft has to say:

“An upgrade of the motherboard is considered to result in a “new personal computer” to which Microsoft® OEM operating system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created and the license of new operating system software is required.”

The reason Microsoft gave for this term is that “Microsoft needed to have one base component “left standing” that would still define that original PC. Since the motherboard contains the CPU and is the “heart and soul” of the PC, when the motherboard is replaced (for reasons other than defect) a new PC is essentially created.”

Microsoft sent a memo to its OEM partners asking them to enforce this new policy, every time they upgrade a computer for a client.

and http://www.aviransplace.com/index.php/archives/2006/02/15/microsoft-upgraded-motherboard-new-licence/.

Edvard · « **Reply #38 on:** March 21, 2006, 12:49 AM »

Quote from: f0dder on March 18, 2006, 06:59 PM

Too bad linux SUCKS, with a kernel designed by people who mentally live in the 70'es. The "user-friendly" distros are even more bloated than XP.

I guess I'll give Mac OS X a try, it's the only decent realistic alternative to windows for desktop use.

Eek, OS war ahead! (Umm... just kidding)
When I said Linux, I meant that as an answer to the question "How long will it take ...". Meaning never. I have decided that with Vista, I'm done trying to keep up with Windows. I certainly can't afford it and buying hardware based on whether it is compatible with Linux beats having to buy a whole new system because Microsoft decides to touch-up their paint job. Actually, Microsoft has done a good job to build a computing platform that is easy to use and available anywhere you care to look, runs 80-90% of the available software on the web, and MOST of the time requires a minimum of tweaking to "Just Work", sure I'll give 'em that. But I really don't understand what folks mean when they say 'Linux sucks' and I fire up my box and have no problems. Really, none. Sure it's been a long and many times hard road. Giving the details would make for a really long post. The bottom line is, it seems MS have successfully achieved a certain level of power vs. ease of use (which I think they did a mighty fine job of doing with W2K, why'd they have to go and ruin it?...) but it seems like now they are just piling on the sugar and MSG and making you pay for it. It's like wanting bagels, getting frosted donuts, getting charged for cream filled puff pastries and asked to sign up for the "Eclair of the month" club (for a hefty fee, of course) and ending up with a craving to make your own damn bagels after wiping the chocolate sprinkles off your face. I would encourage giving Mac a try. BSD under the hood can't be a bad thing and I predict great things happening in Mac-land, especially since being ported to Intel chipsets and Mac Minis making it affordable.

@kimmchii and Carol,
Also, you should check into the Trusted Computing Platform Alliance and what they are attempting to do...
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing_Platform_Alliance
http://www.againsttcpa.com/

I bought my copy of XP bundled OEM with a new harddrive (?!?!) so I guess as long as my harddrive holds out, so does my license? I've transferred my XP twice now (about 3 weeks ago was the last one) and they've always given me a new activation. Over the phone, even.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #39 on:** March 21, 2006, 10:01 AM »

Quote from: kimmchii on March 21, 2006, 12:34 AM

Microsoft sent a memo to its OEM partners asking them to enforce this new policy, every time they upgrade a computer for a client.

This is a reasonable condition because the whole point of OEM is that it is tied to hardware. This shouldn't affect people who have faulty machines because presumably OEM manufacturers should do the decent thing and replace the computer (which will come with it's own OEM Windows).

After guarantee ends if the mobo dies then most people who buy computers will go out and buy a new one rather than replacing the mobo (even if they only buy a bare bones system).

Add to that OEM versions are often preinstalled and most vendors no longer supply an original MS Windows installer disc then it would mean it would be very difficult to even install Windows on the new mobo (unless it is an identical model - unlikely to be available after the guarantee period).

This isn't actually anything to do with DRM anyway which is to do with protecting the rights of companies who provide downloadable music and video, though presumably this could in time be extended to software downloads.

nowshining · « **Reply #40 on:** March 21, 2006, 01:15 PM »

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I bought my copy of XP bundled OEM with a new harddrive (?!?!) so I guess as long as my harddrive holds out, so does my license? I've transferred my XP twice now (about 3 weeks ago was the last one) and they've always given me a new activation. Over the phone, even.

As far as i know this user agreement already is a bit old, and not if ur hardrive goes out u still can use the OEM's disk on your computer, its just the motherboard. and ur lucky, i could never tranfer a licence on this xp installation oem disk they said the numbers i had didn't exist (really they did)..so I am stuck, however this optiplex gx300 takes the disk without any activation key, noting the disk did come with a newer pc than mine as i was stuck with only 98 and 98SE that came with it and was surprised i didn't have to activate the OEM disk on this ol' pentium 3 733mhz thing..hehehe.

f0dder · « **Reply #41 on:** March 21, 2006, 02:31 PM »

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does drm really have anything to do with windows vista? i mean whatever drm technologies they add to drm will surely be added to the media player software, etc. its not like the operating system is going to make the drm situation better or worse one way or the other as far as i know.

It sure IS going to make a difference once palladium-enabled systems pop up... you feel like installing and booting another operating system? no-go, if it's not "approved". You'll have hardware + OS enforced DRM. Want to play DRM music? Sure thing, unless you're trying to play to an analog output or a digital output connected to an "insecure" device.

They might not get it right with the first edition of Vista and Palladium, just like the pretty strong original XBOX encryption was defeated too. But there's some VERY scary perspectives here, which (as usual) is going to hit the legit end-users a lot harder than the pirates. This time it's for real, *hard* OS and and hardware enforced restrictions on what you can do with YOUR hardware.

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But I really don't understand what folks mean when they say 'Linux sucks' and I fire up my box and have no problems. Really, none. Sure it's been a long and many times hard road. Giving the details would make for a really long post.

It would be an equivalently long post if I was going to ratify "why linux sucks". I'm pretty familiar with linux and BSD and don't have trouble managing either. But no way in hell I could be bothered running any of these for my desktop. There's simply too many annoyances, quirks, and really boring trivial things you have to do manually.

Quote

I would encourage giving Mac a try. BSD under the hood can't be a bad thing and I predict great things happening in Mac-land, especially since being ported to Intel chipsets and Mac Minis making it affordable.

Yup, BSD + MACH + NeXT under the hood == not a bad thing indeed. I'm not all too happy with the move to intel hardware since there's so much crappy legacy with the x86 system. But oh well, it should make things more affordable. Just hope that Apple won't go as DRM-crazy as MS are... and that applications will support three-button mice in a comfortable way, I've always hated the one-button-and-keyboard-modifiers approach that Macs used to have.

As for OEM XP versions, there are a few different ways that this works. If you buy eg a DELL PC, you have one form of OEM. This is hardware tied to some strings in your BIOS, so you can only use that OEM with DELL computers. If you buy a piece-of-hardware + OEM XP, that copy will not be hardware tied, and you'll have the usual "you can change 3 pieces of hardware before you need to call the toll-free MS number and explain why so much hardware has changed and get your 25-digit unlock code". Christ I'm glad I have a corporate/VLK version.

zridling · « **Reply #42 on:** March 22, 2006, 04:33 AM »

I intend to wait until I upgrade to my next computer, and thus have a fresh start with Vista. As others have noted, XP is so stable at this point that I'm neither compelled nor anxious to switch. However, Microsoft Office 12 could change everything.

Cpilot · « **Reply #43 on:** March 22, 2006, 05:36 AM »

This thread is moot for now.
Vista debut hits a delay

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #44 on:** March 22, 2006, 09:51 AM »

Quote from: zridling on March 22, 2006, 04:33 AM

Microsoft Office 12 could change everything.

Why - will it add anything people want?

I splashed out on an Office XP upgrade when it came out and was really disappointed as it didn't seem to add anything useful on top of Office 2000 (except activation which is a pain). I haven't bothered with Office 2003 because almost all reviews I read said unless you use it in a coroporate environment there isn't much new (except Outlook has a new layout). There is going to have to be a very good reason for me to upgrade again.

ToxMox · « **Reply #45 on:** March 22, 2006, 06:25 PM »

I intend to switch to Vista within a day or two of it coming out.

I am HP-UX BTW:

Darwin · « **Reply #46 on:** March 22, 2006, 06:35 PM »

From what I've seen and read in reviews on the web, the three main "imrovements" are new file formats based on xml, pdf support, and the replacement of the menu/toolbar with 'ribbons' that change content/format contextually. As I already have full pdf support courtesy of Nuance PDF Converter Pro (and have an old copy of Adobe Acrobat Pro 5 kicking around to boot) I don't see much that would compel me to upgrade, either. Don't get me wrong; I'd *like* to upgrade because I'm addicted to having the latest, greatest version of each package on my machine, but having just splashed out for Office 2003 Pro I can't justify more money anytime soon. The UI for 2003 is sufficiently different from that for 2000 that it's still "novel" (though I don't notice much difference in comparison to 2000).

I suppose the impetus to upgrade will come from the new file formats - if I find that *everyone* is using them, I may be forced to upgrade. Somehow, though, I think that they'll be putting out Office 14+ before this really becomes an issue. If it happens before then, there is always Open/StarOffice, which I am sure will support the new formats very quickly after Office 12 is released into the wild...

Just my 2-bits.

Darwin · « **Reply #47 on:** March 22, 2006, 06:42 PM »

I may upgrade to Vista sooner than I thought: my primary notebook is getting on for three years old and they've just delayed Vista's release again. I have a feeling that I'll be looking for a new notebook this time next year, which seems to be about when Vista will be out so I'll likely wind up with it installed by the manufacturer... Unless, of course I go full hog down the OS-X route. That's doubtful as I already have an older iBook running Jaguar and while I *like* it, I don't see anything compelling enough to make me want to make the shift away from Windows. It's likely my greater familiarity with Windows, but I STILL feel that I am more in control of my machine and "user experience" under Windows than I am using OS-X (or 9.22, which I have runing on an old iMac). I am in the minority camp that can see the strengths and weaknesses of both OS's, rather than ranting and raving about the inherent superiority of one over the other (in the wild there seem to be more raving Mac fanatics... than raving Windows lunatics

).

f0dder · « **Reply #48 on:** March 22, 2006, 07:56 PM »

I dunno how much the new XML-based file formats will really matter. Sure, XML is easier to parse than a binary format, but afaik Microsoft decided not to make the necessary schemas open after all. WinFS and other "interesting" things were dropped anyway, which is probably good since they didn't really make much sense and would have made the system even more bloated than it's already going to be.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #49 on:** March 22, 2006, 08:33 PM »

Quote from: Darwin on March 22, 2006, 06:35 PM

From what I've seen and read in reviews on the web, the three main "imrovements" are new file formats based on xml, pdf support, and the replacement of the menu/toolbar with 'ribbons' that change content/format contextually.

So long as the new version will still read and write files from older Office versions (and on past performance it will) the XML formats won't make a huge difference to the average user. PDF is easily supported anyway - and I'd prefer to have an application independent solution such as Nitro PDF (actually I just upgraded to Adobe Design Suite CS2 so I have Acrobat Pro). Ribbons intead of toolbars? Sounds like another eyecandy issue ... as for context sensitive menus I always turn them off in Office otherwise I can never find the option I'm looking for!