In search of an alternative to InfoSelect ...

[barney]

OK, I've had it  .  I've been using InfoSelect (IS) since before it was a Windows app.  Don't recall the name of the DOS TSR then, though.  Anyway, InfoSelect has been a primary application in my life since its inception.  Until now.

The latest version, 10.x.x, totally broke almost every usage I had for IS.  Formerly, there was search capability on colored text - that's gone.  Formerly there was limited capability to copy both text and image(s) from another document - HTML, PDF, you name it - but that's gone ... hindered might be more accurate, since I've seen it drop from roughly 30%-40% to less than 1%, significantly less.  The devs added that damned ribbon and totally destroyed a reasonably comfortable menu system, which was very customizable.  Currently there is a menu bar which, supposedly can be customized.  So I spent half-an-hour customizing it when I first started using IS v10.  Next time I started IS, all customizations were gone.  Gave it another shot, and another thirty (30) minutes, with the same result.

I just upgraded to a new build - 70 - and lost my last month's work in the process.  When I attempted to recover from internal backups, nothing was there  .  So, what had been reliable in the past was, along with other things, rendered unusable.  There's more, but I'd be incited to extreme profanity should I continue in this vein. 

What I'd absolutely love to find is something that has the following capabilities:

• allow drag and drop from almost any other application
• record the URL of the drag and drop origin if a URL, or the title bar if a non-Web application
• record the date (and time?) of any drag and drop operation
• include images along with text in any drag and drop operation
• allow creation of individual notes interactively
• allow - but not require - a tree/outline structure (in order to pre-classify note or drag and drop entities)

There's more, of course, but that would be a good start.  I'm not quite willing to trade my immortal soul - if I still have one  - but such a software would indeed be so dear to me that I might amortize it  .

I've been trying WikeNotes - found it here a while back - and it does a lot of what I'd like, but still has quite a way to go, as far as automation is concerned.  It holds much promise, and I suspect it'll be a primary candidate, young as it is, for my future workload.  However, it's difficult to believe there's not a reasonably mature program already in existence.

IS is touted as being a personal information manager (PIM) and it is, but that is not my primary usage for it.  I've used its email capabilities in the past, off and on, but that's not a significant need.  Same thing with the calendar and reminder capabilities.  I just want record keeping adequate to my needs/purposes.  Some of those purposes are keeping code modules, some are aggregating data for reporting - and citing - purposes, some are for brainstorming/idea/concept purposes (much akin to a mind map, albeit non-graphical).  There's also a daily journal I keep - a significant chunk of which was lost, btw - that could be kept elsewhere, but the convenience of having all this in one repository is to some degree beyond measure.

[Sascha]

I have been using UltraRecall for about two years. It is highliy configurable and meets all your demands. I got a nice discount on the Pro-Version when it was dealed on BitsDuJour.

[IainB]

@barney: You have my sympathies. I have been following the latest developments of IS. I have stayed at IS version 8 (IS8) as I cannot see that anything terribly useful is going on with the newest version (v10). The gathering of user requirements seems to have been a fiasco.

But as to your data loss, well, shame on you for not:
  (a) having proper backup in place.
  (b) not testing that the backup worked (could be recovered).
  (c) keeping v10 away from your current data and backup, before you had tested it out.

You never know, v10 might have been just fine!
I intend trying v10 out at some stage, but it will only be able to access a copy of my live data.
I have come to the point where I think UltraRecallPro would probably be the way to migrate, having looked at the alternatives listed below, but I have not yet found anything to exactly/easily replace IS8:

• Chandler - waste of time.
• Compendium
• InfoQube - very good
• MaplePro
• Noah - hmm.
• Omea
• OneNote - I am using this.
• orGenta
• RagTimeSolo
• TaskCoach
• TiddlyDu
• TiddlyWiki
• TimeTo
• ToDo + planning
• TotalText
• UltraRecallPro - looks like this is the best migration path; can apparently import IS database files too
• Wild-in-a-jar
• Wiki-PIMs
• Winguide
• WireNote
• Zoot - pretty nifty, but has a steep learning curve.

[David1904]

Tornado Notes - and it was great.
Somewhere around ver 5 or 6 I lost half my data when transferring to a new machine - and because it was a "no longer supported version" I gave up on the program.
Then EverNote looked like the way to go - until it disappeared into the cloud along with the readable ink feature - Grrr
Now I'm trying to learn my way around InfoQube

[barney]

But as to your data loss, well, shame on you for not:
   (a) having proper backup in place.
   (b) not testing that the backup worked (could be recovered).
   (c) keeping v10 away from your current data and backup, before you had tested it out.

Unwarranted assumption(s) on your part  :

• (a) backup was in place - in fact it worked too well
• (b) see (a)
• (c) at some point, ya hafta commit.

Problem with my backup- solution - which had served well up to now - was that it worked too well - too quickly? - when disaster struck.  I'd upgraded, on the advice of one of the IS crew, to a new build because of some recurring problem.  However, the upgrade failed to run the first couple of times - and, in hind-sight, truncated one or more of the existing data files  , not something that was evident at the time.  That's why I say the backup plan worked too well  .  And, since my major backup(s) be on a first of the month schedule, I ended up losing the last month's work.  So there was a functional - and tested! - backup plan in place and in operation.  Hindsight indicates there might be a better way to set the workflow, but then, hindsight has a way of doing that  .

Tornado Notes - and it was great.

That was it!  One (1) of the four (4) or five (5) progs that were absolute necessities back then.


Yeah, I was using Evernote alongside IS, as some of its functionality augmented what I was doing in IS.  However, I'm averse to cloud-based data stores for daily usages - too many times I might need the data and not be connected at that moment.  And there are other times, fer instance on dial-up, when cloud access is simply unacceptable in terms of speed.  And until there is some equivalent, cloud-data-wise, to SQL's commit/rollback routines in general usage, I am averse to most cloud-based solutions.

Remember playing with InfoQube a while back ... methinks a revisit is in order.
Remember seeing reference to UltraRecallPro ... don't think I've ever run across it, though.
I've tried several of the Wiki solutions:  with the exception of WikeNotes, they've been inadequate.
Never could quite wrap my head around Zoot.
Never though of TaskCoach in that light, although I use it for general task/project scheduling.

Ah, well ... seems as though there's now something to fill the odd spare moment that occurs now and again  .

[CWuestefeld]

Another mention for Zoot. There's a full 32-bit version that handles rich text and images in beta, release expected soon (the current version is text only).

The differentiator for Zoot is its smarts, specifically its ability to automatically place products into their correct folders based on rules that you can define.

You mention that you couldn't quite wrap your head around it, and that's a common complaint (and I've certainly felt it). Unfortunately the upcoming new version doesn't do anything to improve that.

But there are some other compelling improvements in the new version. Most notable to me is its ability to collect notes from a remote source. Basically, you set up a Gmail account for it, and send new stuff to that account. Zoot, back at your desktop, monitors that account, and automatically loads new material from it. It's also got some good integration with Dropbox.

So Zoot does have its allures 

[superboyac]

Zoot is still going?  Sheesh.  That's one of the slowest developed programs I've ever come across.

[IainB]

@barney: Sorry about making an unwarranted assumption.
I would always recommend you keep your prior version IS and database as a full backout/recovery set for a year before deleting it if all goes well with the newer version.
Yes, paranoid, I know.

[barney]

Punch line to an old joke:  king talking to vizier about assassination prevention says, "Yes I know I'm being paranoid.  My worry is whether I'm paranoid enough."

Yep, I do much the same, albeit within a somewhat shorter time frame.  The rub, always, though, is that material which has been created with the newer version that is usually not backward-compatible  .  Or, in this case, loss of such material due to a failed upgrade  .  That's always been one of my biggest complaints of IS - the devs don't seem to even have a concept of a change log, so there's no real way of knowing whether ya really need the most current upgrade  .  I've stayed with it because of its [comparatively] blazingly fast search, in spite of that.

Ah, well ... I've pretty well settled on UltraRecall Pro (UR)  , although I'm having a bit of trouble getting URL automation working.  Also using WikeNotes.  Don't have enough data stored to compare search speeds, but looks as though I'll have to live with what I get.  Do wish WikeNotes had a - supertag? - classification system  , e.g., software, how-to, website, but other than that and automatic capture of heading(s) & URLs, it seems to work well so far.

Oh, yeah, that ability to import IS data into UR?  You have to first export it as text in IS, then import it into UR, a process that I suspect will take much time, considering the gigabytes of .wd2 and .wd3 files I have  .

Ain't software wumderful  ?!?

[Jimdoria]

Have to add a +1 for OneNote. I'm not on the latest (2010) but also haven't heard any tales of things breaking horribly.

OneNote serves all my needs for "freeform information container and filer" very well.
Just about all the requirements from your original post are covered, although the outlining is probably weak compared to what you're used to with InfoSelect.

Try not to hold the fact that it's a Microsoft product against it.  OneNote is one of the true software gems to come out of Redmond. And it benefits from the resources a big biz like MS has available to put into usability. It won't take you weeks to "wrap your head around it." You can be productive right away, even though it may take a long time to discover every productivity trick it has up it's sleeve.

Unfortunatley, at about $100 it's not cheap. Unless you compare it to Info Select. 

[barney]

My understanding of OneNote is that it is primarily a cloud-based app, with, appropriately enough, cloud-based storage.  I quit using EverNote when it went to the cloud:  I don't see a significant advantage to opt for a different cloud entity.

(I don't have anything against MS ... I've used a lot of their stuff over the years, usually to my advantage, even though there has been a significant amount of creep and bloat in later editions of things I've used.  Mostly, I'll use any software that does what I need done at the time  .)

Since my work is pretty much solo, a collaboration tool would seem to be a kind of overkill.  And, since I don't trust cloud storage - on several levels - anything cloud-based is pretty much anathema.

I was trying UltraRecall Pro along with WikeNotes, but I don't think URP is going to be able to do the job.  I've sent a help request for the problem(s), but have yet to see a response.

On the other hand, WikeNotes, young as it is, does a significant part of what I want to do.  It would help if it had an alternative tree/outline view along with the tag view - I'll try contacting the vendor to see if that's in the works - or even possible.  If I can get reasonable response from the author(s), that looks to be the route I'll be taking.

Unless something better comes along, of course  .

[superboyac]

Onenote is NOT primarily a cloud storage app.  It's primarily a desktop app.  The cloud sync features have been added and improved as the newer versions came.  It's cloud syncing features are not as simple and smooth as Evernote, but it works.  It uses Microsoft's Sky Drive for the syncing, if I'm not mistaken.

[barney]

Looks as though I need to check OneNote.  Since it's a $$$ app, I hope there's a trial, but I suspect that'll be the case  .

[40hz]

Got a friend who does heavy duty background research for his company's exec technical steering committee. He swears by UltraRecall Pro which you mentioned earlier. (He's also an absolute wiz with AskSam.)

I gave UltraRecall a try a few years ago. I found it extremely powerful. But something about it didn't sync with how my brain tends to work. It just struck me as being too much app for what I needed it for. But I have no doubt it's a very good app.

Might be worth giving it a try. They'll let you download a 45-day/20-use (item limited) trail copy. And they say they have provisions for extending the trial period or removing the item limit if you need more time or have to test it with a bigger database. That's unusual enough to make it worth checking out.

[superboyac]

I gave UltraRecall a try a few years ago. I found it extremely powerful. But something about it didn't sync with how my brain tends to work. It just struck me as being too much app for what I needed it for. But I have no doubt it's a very good app.

That's precisely how I've felt with UR also.  And I've tried it out at least 3 times.

[barney]

As mentioned earlier, I got URP, but the tech writing for it leaves a lot to be desired ... and it took something like forty-eight (48) hours plus to get a response that didn't really address the question I asked.  That does not bode well for future issues, although I might be a bit on the impatient side  in that respect.

The biggest problem I have is getting the URL of stuff I've imported from the Web ... need it for source and, occasionally, attribution when it's from someone else's site.  If I have to manually copy and transfer it, that increases my time per item by about 5%-10% ... when you're grabbing 300-500 segments per session, that becomes significant time  .  There are some other issues - graphics come to mind - but that's the biggie, the show stopper, as it were.

[Dormouse]

The biggest problem I have is getting the URL of stuff I've imported from the Web

Easy to do. I think you must have captured them. Are you sure you are actually seeing what you have got? I always go to the data hierarchy one up from the level I'm looking at (or higher) & look at the URL column in the child list (you do have to have marked that column as one you wish to see).

[barney]

Hm-m-m ... if I understand what you are saying, a URL in the data tree won't work.  I need a title there, the URL in the note- ? - that is produced. 

To make that a bit more clear, a list of URLs is intrinsically worthless, since there's no indication what that URL references until you click on it.  Sorry if I misunderstand, but I've had that result.  Oh, yeah, it's also difficult, if not impossible, to edit the note attached to that URL.

I may be talking about something different than what you mention, but my experience to date has been ... abysmal, shall we say?

But that may go back to my - lack of? - appreciation for the documentation, I suspect.  I do tech writing in my copious spare time  , and what I've seen to date falls far short of standards.  Help files should be written for those who have not used the software, as well as for those familiar with it.  Too many unclear terms  .

[xtabber]

The URL is a document attribute in UR. You can view the attributes for any document by selecting Tools/Attributes from the menu. You can also copy the URL into the document itself if you want to see it there.

While I have been using UR of late for collecting stuff from the web, I must say that it is NOT intuitive or easy to work with.  I much preferred Evernote 2.x for that purpose, but it is now history and Evernote 3+ costs $45/year to be really useful. Also, for some purposes, I want a local database.

[barney]

Yeah, they told me I could see the URL in the Attributes window ... but it ain't not never there.  I see system attributes - which do not, on my system, include URL.  I recall a reference to another attribute window, but 'tain't there, nor can I discover how to evince it.  Maybe a bad install on my system, or maybe something else, system-wise, interfering, but I misdoubt.  In the Tools | Attributes window, URL is selected.  It just does not display.  I'm not averse to being wrong, mind you, but so far, no one has been able to tell/show me how I am  .

[IainB]

@barney: In search of an alternative to InfoSelect
I had exactly the same questions as you, some time back, and gathered a lot of information. It took a lot of investigative work on my part. Here are pointers to the info I gathered, and which might save you some considerable time.
I collected most of the info into the FREE Scrapbook add-on for Firefox. Scrapbook is extremely useful for capturing local copies of webpages (and their URLs).
(With Scrapbook, you can copy just specific things - e.g., images, files - and go several levels deep and scrape off whole chunks of a website if you want.)
This is all Useful information on PIMs (Personal Information Management) software generally (not just InfoSelect).

These links from my Scrapbook could be useful:

• List of outliners
• Discussion on PIMS in DC Forum.

This image - a list of PIM-related content - from my Scrapbook directory could also be useful.
[attach]

[barney]

An impressive list, indeed.(

I think I've tried about half of those, although not always with current purposes in mind  .

Nothing ever came close to InfoSelect, but the latest version of that has proven to be unreliable.

Just encountered a problem with URP - the last seven (7) items I copied were all identical copies of a former - but not immediately previous - copy.  Well-l-l, the copies weren't, but what was pasted was.  I think I'm converted to WikeNotes - at least it hasn't screwed me up - yet  .

(Yeah, scrapbook is very handy.  Don't know, yet, if it functions with 4.x, though.)

[tomos]

Re InfoQube (IQ):
I'm a fairly basic user and am not familiar with any other comparable apps - but I'll chance a comment.

It's essentially a two pane outliner/database.
Grid/Outline (text, with html formatting possible) and the HTML pane, which contains rich-text/html + images (related to the items in the grid).

Drag n drop does not work the way you want it but
There are other methods:

• Win+C - very easy copies selected text [& images] directly to the html pane (via a new item dialogue), title of window is used for the grid text, and the url is saved. By default it goes to an inbox grid but this can be changed from the dialogue, or later.
• there's an extension for FF & IE so I can copy selected text or full pages via context menu or a button.

If you can live without the drag n drop aspect, all you other requirements are met.

Caveats might be that it's still is in Beta, the interface need work to make it more friendly. Some people do have difficulty at the beginning with it.
OTOH there is documentation which may be imperfect but is being improved all the time. You'll always get help quickly at the forum http://www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php?q=tracker. I've been using IQ for years for work stuff without losing anything and what with it being in development it's been updated a lot. It's portable too


[edit] download link (go for the portable version) http://www.infoqube.biz/download
and 'help' page here on dc InfoQube (IQ) Information Management System Q & A [/edit]
edit2/ minor, in [square brackets]

[Dormouse]

To make that a bit more clear, a list of URLs is intrinsically worthless, since there's no indication what that URL references until you click on it.  Sorry if I misunderstand, but I've had that result.  Oh, yeah, it's also difficult, if not impossible, to edit the note attached to that URL.

Two egs: one in the child pane at the bottom, one in the attributes pane at the side.

Easy to attach notes etc if you want.

One just a copy page instruction, the other just a copy selection instruction. URL collected and saved without any other action.





[attach]

[barney]

Aha!  Your 2nd example shows information that does not present on my system, the Document attributes.  Even though they are selected in the View | Choose Columns (?) menu window.  That is, both Web site and URL are selected, but neither shows in the item attributes window.  And for some reason, the UR folk apparently don't believe that, even with screen shots  .  I don't doubt that the product is good, but it simply does not perform as advertised on my system.  My next step, when time allows, is to deinstall, reinstall, see if something went awry in the original install.  That seems more and more likely, as new [non] events occur  .