Author Topic: Apple - not quite grasping the concept of privacy. (Read 33,456 times)

nudone · « **on:** April 20, 2011, 04:42 PM »

Does it matter, well, I suppose so. Am I surprised, not really, who would be these days...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tracking-prompts-privacy-fears

It's a (Guardian) article about how mobile Apple devices are tracking and keeping records of your locations over several months. That's nice of them not to bother to ask first.

Eóin · « **Reply #1 on:** April 20, 2011, 05:05 PM »

That's as outrageous as it is typical. Some scary, privacy related stuff is going down these days.

Deozaan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 20, 2011, 08:08 PM »

Mobile phone companies (or companies that provide mobile data plans to non-phone devices, etc.) need to track your location to provide you with service. I don't have a problem with that.

But they really need to implement some sort of data destruction policy so they don't store your private information indefinitely.

EDIT: Okay, I admit I didn't read the article before posting what I did above. The kind of tracking Apple seems to be doing is blatant and inexcusable, IMO.

Renegade · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:07 AM »

This is a fully documented feature on the bada platform:

http://developer.bada.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.osp.apireference.help/classOsp_1_1Social_1_1Lifelog.html

Quote

This class enables the browsing of the user's activity log data.

It can be a benefit for LBS. e.g. An application can then tell you where you spend most of your time, your transportation routes, which routes are fastest, etc.

The problem, as noted in other threads, is transparency.

zridling · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:25 AM »

If I could, I would gladly live without a phone. Jobs would be in prison in my dictatorship until he could explain himself over this stunt. And his company would go broke paying all the customers he listened to. If he refused in any way, I could think of more creative ways to make sure billionaires learn to behave.

f0dder · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2011, 10:06 AM »

Quote from: zridling on April 21, 2011, 12:25 AM

If I could, I would gladly live without a phone. Jobs would be in prison in my dictatorship until he could explain himself over this stunt. And his company would go broke paying all the customers he listened to. If he refused in any way, I could think of more creative ways to make sure billionaires learn to behave.

Withdraw his entire worth in pennies, and make him eat every single one of them. Twice.

tomos · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2011, 10:29 AM »

Quote from: f0dder on April 21, 2011, 10:06 AM

Quote from: zridling on April 21, 2011, 12:25 AM
If I could, I would gladly live without a phone. Jobs would be in prison in my dictatorship until he could explain himself over this stunt. And his company would go broke paying all the customers he listened to. If he refused in any way, I could think of more creative ways to make sure billionaires learn to behave.
Withdraw his entire worth in pennies, and make him eat every single one of them. Twice.

ahh f0dder, I see you're a fan of recycling . . . eeeuuuuuwwwww

Eóin · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2011, 10:44 AM »

The s*** might really be hitting the fanboi's for Apple on this one - Senator questions Apple over iPhone tracking.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2011, 11:53 AM »

Quote from: The Article

It says that "Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device.

Are you F'ing Kidding Me??!? This rather implies an involuntary upload mechanism.

Quote from: The Article

This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services.

Oh The Hell It Don't. What is the consistent night time location. Now look up the address to see who's house that is ... Yours! Not exactly a freaking mystery now is it?

nosh · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:09 PM »

There's a fix available now (for jailbroken devices). Just thought it would be appropriate to mention this here since so many of you are obviously using iPhones.

Renegade · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2011, 12:49 PM »

Quote from: Stoic Joker on April 21, 2011, 11:53 AM

Quote from: The Article
It says that "Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device.

Are you F'ing Kidding Me??!? This rather implies an involuntary upload mechanism.

Quote from: The Article
This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services.

Oh The Hell It Don't. What is the consistent night time location. Now look up the address to see who's house that is ... Yours! Not exactly a freaking mystery now is it?

Or use the phone data that's available that will personally identify you...

Privacy is an illusion.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2011, 04:59 PM »

Quote from: nosh on April 21, 2011, 12:09 PM

Just thought it would be appropriate to mention this here since so many of you are obviously using iPhones.

Alright now, don't be starting any rumors ... iLife was banned from my universe long ago.

Renegade · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2011, 05:07 PM »

Here's how Samsung treats the issue (from the developer tutorial on location based services):

Tutorial is here (PDF).

i.e. Explicit consent must be given by the user for each application, and only applications that are verified to have an acceptable privacy policy can even have access to those portions of the SDK.

40hz · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:34 PM »

Oh I think Apple has grasped the issue of privacy just fine.

And now that they've grasped it, they're trying to drag it into the bushes and murder it.

nudone · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:54 PM »

Quote from: 40hz on April 21, 2011, 06:34 PM

Oh I think Apple has grasped the issue of privacy just fine.

And now that they've grasped it, they're trying to drag it into the bushes and murder it.

heheheh, good point.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2011, 08:46 PM »

Quote from: nudone on April 21, 2011, 06:54 PM

Quote from: 40hz on April 21, 2011, 06:34 PM
Oh I think Apple has grasped the issue of privacy just fine.

And now that they've grasped it, they're trying to drag it into the bushes and murder it.

heheheh, good point.

Yepper, I'll sign that!

Renegade · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2011, 01:30 AM »

Here's an update...

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/apple-iphone-tracking/

Quote

“Apple must be able to determine quickly and precisely where a device is located,” Apple said in its letter. “To do this, Apple maintains a secure database containing information regarding known locations of cell towers and Wi-Fi access points.”

Huh? A secure database for publicly available information, but an unencrypted database for private information?

Spin.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2011, 02:29 AM »

The whole "anonymous upload" concept makes me laugh. Uh, we just got this data in from Mr or Ms X at IP 17.172.224.27.

On web forums one of my pet peeves are those sigs that load an image from a 3rd party server to get the IP of the viewer, which is dynamically inserted into the picture. Might seem harmless but I don't see it as any more harmless than those 1 pixel images embedded in your email to get you to download, thus revealing the IP of your machine. If the guy with the prank sig has his own server who knows what he's sending from it to me once he's gleaned my IP?

Renegade · « **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2011, 07:54 AM »

Ahem... Why don't you all just shut up, then bend over and take it...

To paraphrase this:

http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/whiskey-tango-foxtrot/46738-thoughts-on-the-iphone-tracking-beat-up

Quote

So, where are we now? Of course there is the obligatory "foam-at-the-mouth" demand for a congressional enquiry (is there any other way those guys can plot to get re-elected?) along with a variety of ill-informed ratcheting-up of the rhetoric on the blogosphere.

But, all-in-all, I think this will slowly fade as people continue to recognise the importance and rely upon the apps that are based on this service.

Commentary redacted due to being overly obscene and profane...

Eóin · « **Reply #19 on:** April 24, 2011, 02:50 PM »

I'm not surprised you felt the need to bite your tongue after reading that one Renegade.

The man does make an excellent case - "Some experts knew about this beforehand, also the media has been a bit emotive in it's reporting. These two things prove Apple did nothing wrong"

Flawless logic indeed.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #20 on:** April 24, 2011, 02:57 PM »

That "article" sounds more like a sympathizer's attempt at making a point.

Or to put it simply: If a forensics lab, thinks it's great idea ... You should be afraid, very (very) afraid.

Dig?

Renegade · « **Reply #21 on:** April 24, 2011, 02:58 PM »

Quote from: Eóin on April 24, 2011, 02:50 PM

I'm not surprised you felt the need to bite your tongue after reading that one Renegade.

The man does make an excellent case - "Some experts knew about this beforehand, also the media has been a bit emotive in it's reporting. These two things prove Apple did nothing wrong"

Flawless logic indeed.

It's just typical, irrational fanboy nonsense. He's so radically disconnected from reality... Sigh... $:-\$

rxantos · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2011, 10:00 PM »

I can understand why you would need to track the CURRENT position of a phone. But the only reason for someone to keep track of your past position and keep it on a file is to track where you have been. Why would apple need that? And even if there where a valid reason, why keep it secret?

If I wanted to bet, I would say that Apple is selling the service of tracking iPhones. To who? From marketers all the way to government.

Suppose you want to make a union. And decided to make a secret reunion of workers so that the company does not fire the ones in the meeting. the company then knew that the meeting took place and where. Every atendant with an iPhone would be in danger of being fired (illegal, but companies can make any excuse to do so).
.
Imagine you decide to excersise your first admentment rights (freedom of speech) and join an activity. If you have an iPhone, Uncle Sam now knows you where there and where you live. So next time you travel you get a special treatment by the TSA.

And how about if someone that happen to work at Apple is also a stalker. Great now the person knows every movement of you.

Many horrible uses for this, specially since its done behind your back.

MilesAhead · « **Reply #23 on:** April 28, 2011, 01:44 AM »

Quote

Suppose you want to make a union. And decided to make a secret reunion of workers so that the company does not fire the ones in the meeting. the company then knew that the meeting took place and where. Every atendant with an iPhone would be in danger of being fired (illegal, but companies can make any excuse to do so).

Not only that. But imagine if your current location and habitual hang-outs were sold to process servers and bill collectors!

Renegade · « **Reply #24 on:** April 28, 2011, 07:14 AM »

The latest Southpark is simply off-the-hook (VERY NSFW):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7p97i7pbL8

It reams on Apple a little bit. Not much, but a little. They really could have gone further than they did. Never the less, it's still very NSFW.