Author Topic: Bvckup (Read 90,263 times)

jaden · « **Reply #25 on:** October 16, 2010, 04:08 PM »

Quote

@apankrat "Across remote machines" - do you mean that you would have a UI here, but the actual backup process will run over there? If so, then this is very closely related to running Bvckup as a service. Latter requires splitting Bvckup into the UI process and the engine process (service), and making them talk to each other. Once the split is done (the hardest part), they can technically talk to each other over a TCP connection, so it should be simple to run the UI on a separate box.

However, see the quote in my reply to MerleOne above. There is a principal matter of needlessly complicating the program to make it do something that is useful to a fraction of its user base.

I'm suggesting the ability to sync a folder on different machines that aren't (necessarily) on the same LAN. For instance, I have 50GB of music on all my machines. I use Microsoft's Live Sync on 4 different machines but it's going away soon and the next version isn't XP-compatible.

Armando · « **Reply #26 on:** October 16, 2010, 04:17 PM »

Quote from: apankrat on October 16, 2010, 08:27 AM

If anyone's interested, I have reworked the opening post of this thread into a Tell Me More page on the program's website. Had to tone it down a bit though...

I think it's excellent. If I find anything to say, I'll post it here...

sajman99 · « **Reply #27 on:** October 16, 2010, 07:31 PM »

Quote from: tomos on October 16, 2010, 12:44 PM

Quote from: Nod5 on October 15, 2010, 06:04 PM
I only have one questions: how do you pronounce the name? "bvackup"? "bee-vee-cup"?

I thought it would simply be pronounced as 'Backup' - that the 'v' is just like an upside-down 'A'

I think the upside down v is the Greek letter delta. So "bee-delta-cup"...uh maybe not. $:-\$

@apankrat: thanks for the details on the config files. You might consider making the "Configuration and Logging folder" movable via the GUI itself. Right now there's only the Open button but perhaps Browse, Move etc. would be much more convenient for the average computer user.

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #28 on:** October 16, 2010, 08:00 PM »

Going to be testing this utility over the next few hours as I need to transfer a lot of files over to my wifes laptop and also my backup drives and onto one of my VPS's

Hopefully this will be a great little utility and I will be reviewing my time spent on it.

My initial review will be available in the Mini-Review section here on DC within the next 24 hours.

Armando · « **Reply #29 on:** October 16, 2010, 09:14 PM »

Quote from: Stephen66515 on October 16, 2010, 08:00 PM

Going to be testing this utility over the next few hours as I need to transfer a lot of files over to my wifes laptop and also my backup drives and onto one of my VPS's

Hopefully this will be a great little utility and I will be reviewing my time spent on it.

My initial review will be available in the Mini-Review section here on DC within the next 24 hours.

Cool ! Don't forget that it's in beta and so some features are missing...

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #30 on:** October 16, 2010, 09:18 PM »

I am fully understanding that this is in beta, and the review will reflect as such.

Obviously if I find anything missing, I will post about it, but I will also mention that these featues may possibly be part of the full version once released out of Beta.

I shall try to be as fair as possible.

**edit**

I have just noticed on the website, that there is an inactive "Purchase Now" button.

Have you got a rough scale of the pricing of the full version, or is this there mearly as an "omg, its free right now, so get it before we charge" type of thing?

apankrat · « **Reply #31 on:** October 16, 2010, 09:45 PM »

Quote from: Stephen66515 on October 16, 2010, 09:18 PM

I have just noticed on the website, that there is an inactive "Purchase Now" button.

Just click on it... or follow this link - http://bvckup.com/perks - and note the paragraph at the bottom :)

KynloStephen66515 · « **Reply #32 on:** October 16, 2010, 09:59 PM »

Quote from: apankrat on October 16, 2010, 09:45 PM

Quote from: Stephen66515 on October 16, 2010, 09:18 PM
I have just noticed on the website, that there is an inactive "Purchase Now" button.

Just click on it... or follow this link - http://bvckup.com/perks - and note the paragraph at the bottom

Thanks

very nice to know.

My first-look review on your software is now available, and has been duely modified to reflect this pricing scheme and the paragraph at the bottom.

http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=24281.0

andhar · « **Reply #33 on:** October 18, 2010, 08:11 AM »

wow, really really nice program. Testing it at the moment with some of my project files. I like to program at work and make backups of them on my web drive. So far it works great!

MerleOne · « **Reply #34 on:** October 18, 2010, 08:47 AM »

Quote from: apankrat on October 16, 2010, 01:47 AM

----

@MerleOne - with regards to backing up into an archive file - I am very reluctant to add this. Another person asked for a similar feature over an email, let me just copy-paste my reply here:

...

With regards to the "can't set ownership on dest files" issue - I saw this before, and it was triggered by a file being initially copied from another machine or created by another user. So bvckup ended up making a copy of the file not owned by the user whose account it was running under. The first copy would succeed, and the second copy will fail, because the destination machine will (quite reasonably) refuse bvckup full access to the file owner by another user.

I was wrecking my head on how to properly handle this setup, and I think the most sensible thing to do is to detect files that are NOT owned by current user and make Bvckup ask the user if it should copy the ownership information...

--

On editing filters - http://www.bvckup.com/support/forums/topic_show.pl?pid=265
On backslash - it's not needed

----

Thanks for the reply. I'll perform some more tests regarding copying to a network drive and may get back to you if applicable.

ecaradec · « **Reply #35 on:** October 18, 2010, 01:39 PM »

I've been running bvckup for a few days, and I must say that I'm very impressed by everything about it, including communication, design, technological posts around, even the "follow us on twitter" box with it's No weather or health reports, No lunch menus, No retweets, Concise and always on-topic promise AND the software which is has definitly solved my local backup issue.

It would be great if it had some history, just in case I delete something on a side by mistake to be able to get it back that way. I would happily pay for it when you release it.

apankrat · « **Reply #36 on:** October 18, 2010, 05:39 PM »

@Armando - I had a look at the renaming/moving thing. There are at least four ways it can be done.

One is with the file system driver that monitors all FS activity. This something that I can actually write, but would rather not to due to much increased support load. Also this will require admin privileges and may require reboots in some cases, again something that I'd like to avoid.

Second is to hook either the Windows Explorer (apparently it implements some sort of move/rename notification/vetoing mechanism) or to hook the Win32 API through injection. I personally get willies even thinking of integrating with Windows Explorer. The API hooking is interesting, but it is prone to the same set of support problems as the first option.

Third is to simply look at the timestamps and sizes and see if any of the disappeared files have reappeared elsewhere under a different name. This will obviously not work if the file is not only moved, but also modified between the backups.

Fourth is the same but to also account for the file contents through hashing. This is similar to what delta copying does, and it would mean scanning and re-hashing the candidate (new) file to determine if it's a match to a disappeared one.

Based on the numbers you posted, other backup programs are likely to be doing either #1 or #3. SyncToy documentation mentions in passing their use of SHA1 hashes, but I can't really see how they can re-hash a large file in mere milliseconds, so they must in the end be doing #3 as well.

I will try and put together a version that implements rename/move detection, but it might take me a week or so to do that. Stay tuned :)

apankrat · « **Reply #37 on:** October 18, 2010, 05:41 PM »

@jaden - Ah, I see. I would rather not add this to this product, and here is why.
I wonder if I should trademark this ^ response ... :D ... I feel like I am going to be using it a lot in this thread.

@sajman99 - B-D-cup then... that should get them clicking on those ads... lol
Though you are totally right regarding the delta

@andhar - thanks, great to hear that

@ecaradec - thanks, and I would happily accept your money :)

ljbirns · « **Reply #38 on:** October 18, 2010, 06:28 PM »

I downloaded Bvckup a couple of days ago and have set it to bvackup several folders - two to a HD partition and one to a network drive. Seems to work flawlessly and
without taking up resources . I like it !

Very nice and very handy

Armando · « **Reply #39 on:** October 18, 2010, 06:42 PM »

@apankrat - Very interesting. Yes, they must be doing #3.
Thanks a lot for the details. I'll be very happy to test the new version. That type of detection is great in general, but especially for those copying files over a network.

tomos · « **Reply #40 on:** October 18, 2010, 07:06 PM »

Quote from: Armando on October 15, 2010, 07:00 PM

apankrat : it seems that maybe bvckup doesn't detect file renaming / moved files so that it can perform the same operations on the destination, instead of deleting / copying the files anew. SyncToy does that and this means dramatic speed improvement.

I'd hate to think it could miss out on a file like in version # 3 $:-\$ (wonder how SFFS approaches this...)

Quote from: apankrat on October 18, 2010, 05:39 PM

Third is to simply look at the timestamps and sizes and see if any of the disappeared files have reappeared elsewhere under a different name. This will obviously not work if the file is not only moved, but also modified between the backups.

Armando · « **Reply #41 on:** October 18, 2010, 07:52 PM »

Quote from: tomos on October 18, 2010, 07:06 PM

I'd hate to think it could miss out on a file like in version # 3 $:-\$ (wonder how SFFS approaches this...)

I' almost sure that SFFS approaches this as in version #3. If you check the help file, Tobias explains how it's done. SyncToy works the same.

However, that doesn't mean that SFFS wouldn't backup the file, it only means that it would back it up fully instead of just moving it/renaming it.

Perry Mowbray · « **Reply #42 on:** October 18, 2010, 09:51 PM »

Quote from: ecaradec on October 18, 2010, 01:39 PM

It would be great if it had some history, just in case I delete something on a side by mistake to be able to get it back that way.

There is a request on their forum for versioning and some discussion about using timestamps (I guess could be hours or days or even weeks to define your backups).

I would very much like to see this type of versioning

Armando · « **Reply #43 on:** October 18, 2010, 10:28 PM »

Other (completely different) approach to that problem: postpone any deletions (user specifies the time).

Perry Mowbray · « **Reply #44 on:** October 18, 2010, 11:53 PM »

Quote from: Armando on October 18, 2010, 10:28 PM

Other (completely different) approach to that problem: postpone any deletions (user specifies the time).

Very true (pity

... I'd love to see the versioning though)

apankrat · « **Reply #45 on:** October 19, 2010, 12:37 AM »

I will do it... just need to figure out the UI bit.

Armando · « **Reply #46 on:** October 19, 2010, 12:42 AM »

@Perry Mowbray / apankrat : Of course, this (postpone deletion) would be only complementary as it doesn't replace versioning, at all. It was only a solution for unwanted deletions for those who, for some reasons wouldn't want versioning but still keep some control over what gets deleted or not.

Another solution is to allow the user to insert some file/directory masks to indicate for what files/folders should the program should always ask for deletion confirmation (not renaming or moving, of course...).

Perry Mowbray · « **Reply #47 on:** October 19, 2010, 01:42 AM »

Quote from: Armando on October 19, 2010, 12:42 AM

@Perry Mowbray / apankrat : Of course, this (postpone deletion) would be only complementary as it doesn't replace versioning, at all. It was only a solution for unwanted deletions for those who, for some reasons wouldn't want versioning but still keep some control over what gets deleted or not.

Yes, sorry: I was being tongue-in-cheek... being keen on a versioning option, the more issues it addresses increases the likelyhood of implementation. Though I'm very heartened by this...

Quote from: apankrat on October 19, 2010, 12:37 AM

I will do it... just need to figure out the UI bit.

Personally I'd be happy with the time versioned copies to exist in sub directories of the backup job parent (with a limit on the number kept)... which'd mean if you ever stop versioning that old versions would remain, etc.

Quote from: Armando on October 19, 2010, 12:42 AM

Another solution is to allow the user to insert some file/directory masks to indicate for what files/folders should the program should always ask for deletion confirmation (not renaming or moving, of course...).

That could also be done on a per backup job basis (though not as powerful), which would make the backup jobs more readable in some ways (you'd get more little jobs rather than one big one with different file masks for the settings $:-\$ ??)

andhar · « **Reply #48 on:** October 19, 2010, 08:50 AM »

I came across a little problem:
Some of my project folders have a directory called ".bmx". At the same time the project files (which are in the same directory like the ".bmx" subdir) do have the extension *.bmx. I only want to backup all of these bmx-files but not the ".bmx"-subfolder. How can I set up bvckup to do this?

apankrat · « **Reply #49 on:** October 19, 2010, 02:55 PM »

@andhar - add an exclusion filter for .bmx and then add an inclusion filter for *.bmx after (below) it. Filters are scanned from top to the bottom and first one will match the folder, but not the files, and second will match the files only.