Facebook urged over 'panic button'

[KynloStephen66515]

This isn't really Tech News worthy, so I figured I would post it as more of a rant, than anything that needs replies to...

Home Secretary Alan Johnson will hold talks with Facebook later this week about the social networking site's refusal to install a "panic button" to allow children to report suspected paedophiles.

Mr Johnson and junior Home Office minister Alan Campbell will meet representatives from the site in an attempt to persuade them to install the button, which links to the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (Ceop) centre.

Mr Campbell told MPs he could see no reason why Facebook and other social networking sites would not adopt the system.

Calls for Facebook to install the button on its website have intensified following the conviction of Peter Chapman for the kidnap, rape and murder of 17-year-old Ashleigh Hall.

Convicted sex offender Chapman used a false identity to befriend and entrap the teenager through Facebook, which has some 23 million UK users.

Mr Campbell, responding to a debate in Parliament's Westminster Hall, said he was "disappointed" that not all social networking sites had added Ceop's "report abuse" panic button.

He said: "I expect those responsible for provision of services online to take responsibility for providing safety mechanisms and information to their users and, in the case of services where there can be communication between people who are not previously know to each other and where identities can be invented, to provide the click Ceop button to allow users who feel threatened or vulnerable to make a report."

Mr Campbell continued: "We have argued... that the Ceop button should be used by all of those sites and many sites have either agreed to take them or agreed to take them at some point in the future, such as Bebo.

"We see absolutely no reason why sites should not do so.

"Later this week the Home Secretary and I will be meeting with Facebook to impress upon them the need to allow users who feel threatened to have access to the Ceop button."

Source Website

<solution1>

Don't let your freakin kids use social networking websites!

<solution2>

From the Facebook Help Centre:

What is the minimum age required to sign up for Facebook? How old do you have to be?
In order to be eligible to sign up for Facebook, users must be thirteen (13) years of age or older.

Users who are 18 years or younger should have seriously restricted options on Facebook.  Now I know people lie, and kids lie all the damn time, but the ones who put their true age in, should have all friends requests, private messages, comments etc...moderated by their parents (Parents would have to sign their kids up and link their FB account to their children's)

Seems logical to me!


All in all, I do NOT agree with anybody under 18 using social networking websites...They can be very dangerous places.

Examples of websites that should be removed/changed:

Myspace
Faceparty
BEBO (Main culprit)

Bebo actually WANTS every child in the world to sign up...don't ask me why, or what their reasons are...but it is a nasty website and should be more heavily moderated.

Faceparty...well...go look at it...you will understand why I hate it!

Myspace is just crap...end of conversation on that...



End of Rant

[RedPillow]

Im 16 and I think I`ll know if a freaking pedophile tries to rape me virtually or in real life.
Also, kids even younger than me (like 10-15 year old) are so into porn these days, that no one really starts puking to their keyboard if a random korean-dude send in some goatse - That`s what close button is for.

So .. No 18 please :]

[KynloStephen66515]

Im 16

Not to seem offensive or anything, but your generation (omg that makes me feel old) WILL claim that you are de-sensitized and not 'at risk'.  Take a 14 year old girl...give her a webcam...guaranteed compromising photos posted on facebook, bebo, myspace, msn, and anywhere else she felt the need to share them.

Take a 14 year old boy, give him a computer with unrestricted access, hes going to hunt for porn, and chat rooms...

These things happen.

[Dormouse]

Im 16 and I think I`ll know if a freaking pedophile tries to rape me virtually or in real life.

I think the girl in the example knew too.
But by then she was on her own with him and it was too late.

[Renegade]

The problem isn't with Facebook, it's with the pedophiles using it. Laws need to address/restrict the source problems, and not to restrict/address victims of problems. Laws are supposed to protect people, and not to punish good citizens.

Facebook here is a victim as they have been misused by a seriously deranged fellow. Punishing Facebook doesn't solve the problem.

Roads can be dangerous places, and if you're careless, you're liable to injure yourself or others, but you don't find them all lined with rubber padding and whatnot. Similarly, the Internet presents dangers as well. There are lots of ways to put on an "Internet seat belt" or install "Internet airbags", but most people just simply won't do it (e.g. Internet nanny programs, firewalls, etc.). People need to actually do something to protect their children rather than just sit back and let the state try to do it (which can ONLY end in disaster).

We see absolutely no reason why sites should not do so.

WTF??? Reality check! I can think of a million reasons not to! Do you seriously want to have kids flagging people as pedophiles? You know what that would do? It would turn into a witch-hunt complete with stakes, bonfires, and burning flesh. (Note that CEPO, a government organization in the country with the most CCTV cameras per capita of anywhere in the world, wants reports to go directly to them!)

Having children falsely report people would ruin a lot of lives. The amount of information available to governments now is already far too much. Every time something like this gets into the system erroneously (kids reporting falsely), somebody is going to get pulled aside at customs when the go through a border, have troubles with police for a parking ticket, lose a job opportunity because a red flag came up, or something else. The information will not be used responsibly. We have many years of governments abusing power as evidence and very little in the way of evidence to show that a system like that wouldn't be grossly abused.

A fellow I know had his medical records fraudulently stolen (which obviously required complicity on the part of the medical community) and used against him politically. He had no realistic recourse against those that held (and released) his medical records. Jeez... The system is already working soooooo well... Sigh...

It would be a very good idea to simply delete your account at any site that did adopt something that insane.

I would much rather see a "Facebook Jr." site that was restricted with no adults allowed. With an appropriate license agreement, any adult signing up fraudulently could be prosecuted.

The potential for abuse with a system like that is just far too high.

[RedPillow]

Just add a "Are you a pedophile" -check, when you register - just like "Are you a bot" -test =D

But srsly, I just don`t get it - there is really not that much pedophiles .. actually there is so tiny amount of them that this whole thing makes me laught - it`s a freaking Cartoon-joke.
And of course these "Chat with random people and use your webcam with them and watch how pedohiles use fake webcam to show your age japanese-boy which looks like that cute guy from the final fantasy" are redicilous.
I admit, that there is people stupid enought to fall for those, it is said - that some pedophiles in facebook even have other pedos as friends so they don`t look so alone and weird.
How about increasing sex-ed, internet-safety-conversations and parent to kid conversations about internet ?
It have worked on finland, I think we have very low ratings at getting raped trought internet - unlike other countries.

[CleverCat]

Kids claim to be 'smart' these days, so tell them to tighten their security settings!

[Renegade]

Kids claim to be 'smart' these days, so tell them to tighten their security settings!

It's the parents that need to tighten the security settings for the kids. The parents should know better. Kids are, well, kids.

[CleverCat]

[RedPillow]

Kids claim to be 'smart' these days, so tell them to tighten their security settings!

It's the parents that need to tighten the security settings for the kids. The parents should know better. Kids are, well, kids.

Most of the parents don`t know what their kids do, and even if they see em doing something - they can always tell that it was a virus or something else equally stupid cause their parents know only how to play minesweeper or stuff - so free computer-education for parents!

They should astleast know how to check cookies

[app103]

Would a panic button ever stop a kid from trusting anyone enough to meet them in real life?

No.

Would a panic button ever stop a gullible kid from believing lies told to them by someone looking to lure them?

No.

Would a panic button ever stop a kid from liking the attention they seek, being given to them by strangers online?

No.

The kids that trust people that they shouldn't, will never click this button. The thought would never occur to them. Those that could potentially be helped most by it, will never use it.

So what is the purpose of this panic button again?

[KynloStephen66515]

Would a panic button ever stop a kid from trusting anyone enough to meet them in real life?

No.

Would a panic button ever stop a gullible kid from believing lies told to them by someone looking to lure them?

No.

Would a panic button ever stop a kid from liking the attention they seek, being given to them by strangers online?

No.

The kids that trust people that they shouldn't, will never click this button. The thought would never occur to them. Those that could potentially be helped most by it, will never use it.

So what is the purpose of this panic button again?

No idea...I just bring you the stories, I don't write them

But yeah, in my post, you will notice I never ONCE say that a panic button is a good idea, only tightening security protocols on the potential victims computer will.

I agree that increased sex-ed and what-not will help towards a final solution, but will never be the last we hear of it.

Facebook here is a victim as they have been misused by a seriously deranged fellow. Punishing Facebook doesn't solve the problem.

[WTF??? Reality check! I can think of a million reasons not to! Do you seriously want to have kids flagging people as pedophiles? You know what that would do? It would turn into a witch-hunt complete with stakes, bonfires, and burning flesh. (Note that CEPO, a government organization in the country with the most CCTV cameras per capita of anywhere in the world, wants reports to go directly to them!)

Facebook is NOT being punished in any sense, the governments are just trying to crack down on potential problems, and although the ideas they have are not very good, they are still only 'ideas' - No website is being FORCED to have this button...If so, every website with possible chat functions (Yes...Even Donationcoder.com) will have it forced upon them.

Better ideas are required by all parties, but, no one single solution will be the finish of pedophilia, and as much as I hate to say it...It will always be something we have to deal with...just like rape, murder, theft, copyright crimes, illegal downloading, driving without a licence...etc...

[app103]

But yeah, in my post, you will notice I never ONCE say that a panic button is a good idea, only tightening security protocols on the potential victims computer will.

If by computer you are really referring to the potential victim's brain, then I agree.

If you mean that literally, I don't see how that would help, unless you completely disconnect the computer from the internet.

I agree that increased sex-ed and what-not will help towards a final solution, but will never be the last we hear of it.

It's not really sex-ed that would help in this situation (although that's never a bad thing, any way, for other reasons). What we need is better education on the proper use of the internet.

We tell our kids not to talk to strangers, not to take candy from them, not to accept a ride from them, etc. when they are young, but we don't do a very good job of reinforcing that when they get older and go online. Those rules apply online as well as walking back & forth to school, and this needs to be stressed a lot more.

How many kids are told never to meet someone they know only online, in real life? How often are they told that if they do, they shouldn't be alone, it should always be in a public place, they should have the permission of their parents, and lots of people should know about it before they do it?

And then there is the "invincibility" factor...

Kids, especially teens, tend to think that adults are too paranoid and that bad things can't happen to them...that bad things only happen to other people. This is one of the root causes of risky behaviors of all types, in young people.

I am not sure how to fix that, though. I am not even sure it can be fixed, except through experience and aging. Acquiring a healthy case of adult paranoia might be the only cure, and that would mean growing up is the only solution.

[Lashiec]

Also, kids even younger than me (like 10-15 year old) are so into porn these days, that no one really starts puking to their keyboard if a random korean-dude send in some goatse - That`s what close button is for.

[CWuestefeld]

WTF??? Reality check!

+1 to Renegade. It's really a non-problem: the chances of someone being harmed due to this are like being hit by lightning. (Actually, given these lightning stats [1], I'd say that lightning is a much bigger risk).

But on the other hand, the danger of lives being ruined because of false reports is far greater. If they're so naive that they're in danger from a pedophile, I claim they're also too naive to understand they'd do to someone by reporting them as a pedophile. ("Jane's dad just told me I'm not allowed to see her anymore; I'll show him...")

[1] See http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/medical.htm
For 2008: Total deaths=60, Est. injuries=540

[RedPillow]

Also, kids even younger than me (like 10-15 year old) are so into porn these days, that no one really starts puking to their keyboard if a random korean-dude send in some goatse - That`s what close button is for.

And I meant it.

[Lashiec]

I'm shocked. Really.

[KynloStephen66515]

Facebook turned it down:

Ashleigh was NOT being bullied...she was NOT being sexually harassed...she was NOT aware of the fact she was being groomed... she DID trust that someone was who they said they were...and she went to meet someone who she believed to be the same age as herself...a young man with whom she had been having an online friendship...and we can assume that she believed that the relationship was going somewhere...and THAT is where the report abuse button becomes redundant.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=210518539&blogId=531216980

[RedPillow]

Facebook turned it down:

Ashleigh was NOT being bullied...she was NOT being sexually harassed...she was NOT aware of the fact she was being groomed... she DID trust that someone was who they said they were...and she went to meet someone who she believed to be the same age as herself...a young man with whom she had been having an online friendship...and we can assume that she believed that the relationship was going somewhere...and THAT is where the report abuse button becomes redundant.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=210518539&blogId=531216980

No, that`s when you ask your dad to come meet the guy with you.

[KynloStephen66515]

Facebook turned it down:

Ashleigh was NOT being bullied...she was NOT being sexually harassed...she was NOT aware of the fact she was being groomed... she DID trust that someone was who they said they were...and she went to meet someone who she believed to be the same age as herself...a young man with whom she had been having an online friendship...and we can assume that she believed that the relationship was going somewhere...and THAT is where the report abuse button becomes redundant.

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=210518539&blogId=531216980

No, that`s when you ask your dad to come meet the guy with you.

You should know, as well as everybody else, that is never going to happen...Asides from the face going up to a parent and saying "Can you come with me to meet this guy I met on the internet" is never going to be the easiest conversation, She trusted the person she was speaking to, and quite possibly never had any reason not to trust he was nice, friendly and safe and all that...

Panic button = Pointless
Internet Restrictions (Whether it be firewalls or bans from actually going online) == Good.

[CWuestefeld]

Internet Restrictions (Whether it be firewalls or bans from actually going online) == Good.

Ahem. Please allow me to amend that:

Internet Restrictions as deployed and configured by parents (Whether it be firewalls or bans from actually going online) == Good.

We don't want to be advocating nationally-mandated censorship like China and Australia.

[KynloStephen66515]

Yeah, I did mean to put parental configured firewall and computer restrictions. 

Thanks for noticing that lol