Author Topic: circledock DELETED ALL MY FILES! help! (Read 37,388 times)

wraith808 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:46 PM »

^ That was a classy response in a very stressful situation.

Veign · « **Reply #26 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:50 PM »

Just popping in for a suggestion.

Why delete any files in any folder or drive? Why not ask the user to point to an empty folder and make it there responsibility to provide the clean folder. CircleDock checks the folder provided to make sure its empty, if not popup a warning that the operation could not be completed.

CircleDock is not an application that a user would expect to be deleting anything from their drive, regardless of warning boxes.

Just my .02.

wraith808 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 04, 2010, 03:53 PM »

Quote from: Veign on February 04, 2010, 03:50 PM

CircleDock is not an application that a user would expect to be deleting anything from their drive, regardless of warning boxes.

QFE, and totally agreed.

phitsc · « **Reply #28 on:** February 04, 2010, 04:04 PM »

Quote from: thegipper on February 04, 2010, 01:14 PM

Leason learned. And for me too-- except I dont know what my lesson is: dont trust open source software?

Always make backups of your data, and make them on a regular basis?

joiwind · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2010, 05:04 PM »

Another suggestion for this kind of situation in general would be restoring a system snapshot - even Windows restore point could/would have rectified this "disaster", not to mention the many better applications to create snapshots.

mouser · « **Reply #30 on:** February 04, 2010, 05:26 PM »

thegipper,

as someone who has suffered from data loss in the past, i know that no amount of saying sorry or sympathy is going to do much to ease your pain.

this shouldn't have happened to you. you have every right to be angry and upset. and i want to thank you for being so understanding and not becoming uncontrollably enraged at the programmers, as i fear i might have become.

the only thing i can say is that the people who work on circle dock feel truly sick about this, and have worked hard to get out a fix and make sure this kind of thing never happens again. if it's any consolation at all, it's that your loss, and your taking the time to come here and tell us about it, has no doubt saved others from suffering the same fate. so for that we thank you.

for the programmers out there, as has been pointed out by others in this thread, if you get the brilliant idea of adding a function to your program that involves deleting the contents of a folder, you should stop what you are doing, take a break from the computer, and jump into an ice cold shower. it's just a recipe for disaster, and no matter how clever you try to be, the chances of something going wrong are just way to high to offset any convenience that might be gained. the solution, if you need the directory emptied, is as veign suggests, and as i understand circledock does now, is simply to tell the user to go empty the directory on their own.

wraith808 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 04, 2010, 05:51 PM »

Quote from: joiwind on February 04, 2010, 05:04 PM

Another suggestion for this kind of situation in general would be restoring a system snapshot - even Windows restore point could/would have rectified this "disaster", not to mention the many better applications to create snapshots.

A windows restore point will not restore lost non-system files, so it wouldn't have rectified the problem- in fact, it would have made it more difficult to retrieve the data.

Dormouse · « **Reply #32 on:** February 04, 2010, 06:05 PM »

One of the things I never quite understood was the need for a 'Make Portable' function.
A lot of apps have Install and Portable options available.
I have some apps with the 'Make Portable' option, but they are all shareware and I always assumed that this was a way of having portable functionality with a lower risk of having their app ripped off. But since CircleDock is free and Open Source, that can't apply here.
I just continued to use Eric's version for portable needs so I never spent time trying to work out the answer or ask the question here, but it still intrigues me.

joiwind · « **Reply #33 on:** February 04, 2010, 06:19 PM »

Quote from: wraith808 on February 04, 2010, 05:51 PM

Quote from: joiwind on February 04, 2010, 05:04 PM
Another suggestion for this kind of situation in general would be restoring a system snapshot - even Windows restore point could/would have rectified this "disaster", not to mention the many better applications to create snapshots.

A windows restore point will not restore lost non-system files, so it wouldn't have rectified the problem- in fact, it would have made it more difficult to retrieve the data.

I don't agree. I have often restored a snapshot after mistakes etc and I have always been able to completely recuperate everything.
Are we talking about the same thing ? I use Farstone Driveclone Pro and automatically make a snapshot once every 24 hours plus a snapshot when I am about to install something that could make important changes and this has often got me out of serious trouble.

Any other opinions on this ?

Kamel · « **Reply #34 on:** February 04, 2010, 06:51 PM »

I'm sorry to hear about your loss. It is, in the least, a very good thing that you discovered it and others will not make the same mistake due to the software being fixed.

Legally, they could have ignored you and not cared, but I think it does show their true heart that they did respond as promptly and diligently as they did. I've actually had paid for software wipe out entire windows installs before, adobe premiere being one of them. Nothing I could do, sue them perhaps? Not that I had any shred of proof that their software had actually caused my program files folder to be wiped (and essentially had to reinstall windows).

In the end, I think the operative lessons learned here are A) The programmers do actually care about the people who are using their software B) It is, indeed, a very good idea to keep good backups for many reasons (Hardware failure does happen) C) When something like this happens, as soon as you notice, do not allow ANY file operations to happen, as it makes recovery more difficult/impossible. (It's a good idea to turn off the computer and remove the drive entirely until you have done enough research on how best to approach the recovery of the software)

This isn't to say that you did anything wrong at all. Data loss is a part of life unfortunately. I store my important data in an encrypted DVD library, but even then a single fire and I would be 'toast'. In highschool, I was taught by my physics teacher that there are no constants in the physical universe, and that's an unfortunate truth of life.

I feel sorry for you losing your data, if I or anyone else here could do anything to help, please let us know. I believe we have shown our willingness, as a community, to assist you with this of course, but please do not hesitate to ask for any additional assistance. Quite a few brilliant minds are here, who have had to do extensive data recovery, so we may be able to assist you.

PS. I'll never forget the night my friend and I spent all night long reading a data recovery forensics book, trying to write a program to recover the files that were lost from my hard drive. Once finished with the program, it did its job well, as good as any enterprise solution could (seeing how the data is either there or not), only about 5% of my data was recovered properly in the end. Several years later, my friend came to me and told me he had found a bug in the program which caused it to improperly recover files that had to be segmented on the disk. My data was never recovered, but the resulting program still works extremely well. I could ask him to allow you to use it, if you are still interested in trying (assuming you haven't ran any write operations on that disk). It works extremely well, it just may take more space to the files than the size of the disk itself. The reason for this is the fact that it ignores all "sanity checks", so if there are 2 references to 1 file, it will still restore it and the resulting file will have a good version and a corrupt version. It's the most thorough form of data recovery you can do though, and has the highest chance of recovery.

Anyway, I'll stop blabbing. Sorry to hear about this, but at the same time it is encouraging to see that the community took such great efforts to help.

wraith808 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 04, 2010, 06:52 PM »

Quote from: joiwind on February 04, 2010, 06:19 PM

I don't agree. I have often restored a snapshot after mistakes etc and I have always been able to completely recuperate everything.
Are we talking about the same thing ? I use Farstone Driveclone Pro and automatically make a snapshot once every 24 hours plus a snapshot when I am about to install something that could make important changes and this has often got me out of serious trouble.

His drive was deleted. Taking out of the equation what system restore does, for it to restore a drive's worth of data, that data would have to be cached on his system drive. Even notwithstanding system restore's functionality, that doesn't seem plausible.

Then add in the actual function of system restore, i.e. from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306084

Quote

Note System Restore does not affect personal files, such as e-mail, documents, or photos. You can only restore files that you have deleted if you have made backups of those files.

And you have a cut and dried case for the fact that System Restore is not a substitute for backups. It will not restore deleted personal files. Just trying to get this across as a lot of people have that fallacious view, and it's a misconception that can make you very frustrated when the time comes to put it to the test.

You state that you also use Farstone Driveclone Pro. That, IMHO, is what has saved you... system restore is only there to restore your system- not your files. As it was his data that was affected, system restore wouldn't have helped him at all.

Stoic Joker · « **Reply #36 on:** February 04, 2010, 06:58 PM »

Quote from: mouser on February 04, 2010, 05:26 PM

for the programmers out there, as has been pointed out by others in this thread, if you get the brilliant idea of adding a function to your program that involves deleting the contents of a folder, you should stop what you are doing, take a break from the computer, and jump into an ice cold shower. it's just a recipe for disaster, and no matter how clever you try to be, the chances of something going wrong are just way to high to offset any convenience that might be gained. the solution, if you need the directory emptied, is as veign suggests, and as i understand circledock does now, is simply to tell the user to go empty the directory on their own.

One of the in-house billing applications I wrote creates two copies of each bill it generates, one in an archive on the server, and one view only temporary copy in the user's Temp directory ... User's Temp is automatically cleared on program exit - by design... Which folder actually gets cleared at run-time ... is an oddly random affair. Fortunately the truly critical information is stored in a SQL db so nothing (critically) important is really lost.

Moral being (as Mouser above states) Programmatic Auto-Delete Bites.

sgtevmckay · « **Reply #37 on:** February 04, 2010, 07:03 PM »

Quote from: thegipper on February 04, 2010, 01:14 PM

Well, I'm not going to say I'm recovered, but what are you going todo. I'm still shellshocked, but it appears that the program recovered lot of what was deleted, except for the 5gig of email, but Ihad a backup on my laptop, but not that recent.

To those who had nothing to do with this, and who extended their thought and donation, I thankyou for your quick participation.

To the programmer, the only way to learn is to make mistakes, but it migt be wise in the future to "measure twice and cut once" when it comes to file operations on the user's computer. Leason learned. And for me too-- except I dont know what my lesson is: dont trust open source software?

thanks again for the people trying to help. it was timely, the help, to be sure.

Sir
Your words are well spoken, and I thank you for them.

Markham and I spoke for hours last-night, and he is absolutely heart sick with the damage this has caused.
I have found that Markham strives for excellence in his programming, and he finds this incident inexcusable of himself.
I can honestly say that none of us can be harder on him than he is on himself right now!

That being said: A correction has already been instituted for the next release.

So the lessons:
Oh my God...what have I, we, all learned

For my part; I must endeavor to test further faster and ensure better documentation. I had not even tested the Portable version from beginning to end, and there are still things I do not know. Better documentation is a must and the public will have it!

For Markham: He knows what he has done.
I am grateful that he is made of good intestinal fortitude and did not run, and is moving forward.
He has instantly coded a correction, and is immediately retesting everything amongst the test group he has developed.
Will something like this never happen again? I could lie and say sure, but that is not the truth. There are things hidden and buggy even in larger company software (ie Internet Explorer, Adobe Flash, Firefox, Norton's Anti-virus, etc). Programming has advanced so far so fast, that it is not a perfect science.
I say this from experience and no direct experience, as I am no programmer.
I will say we will do everything in our power to ensure the integrity and security of Circle Dock, and make every effort to ensure that this will not happen again!

For yourself: The lesson has to be derived for yourself.
I can tell you I will be backing up my own data more often

Mouser spoke best when he said:

Quote

i know that no amount of saying sorry or sympathy is going to do much to ease your pain.

What you have suffered is devastating in an extreme, and even now I am kicking myself.
When it happened to me, I got lucky and recovered almost all my data from a combination Hard/soft crash, but I know this is not your case.

Quote

I dont know what my lesson is: dont trust open source software?

Please do not even think this.

Open Source and free software is what I eat and drink. For someone like me, that is unable to afford even mid-level software, it is my bread and butter. I could give you at least 40 programs, by name, in my system off the top of my head, and I am sure I have well over 60.
I am a walking encyclopaedia of free software

I have at one point or another had an issue with many of them, and yes one of them is what caused the aforementioned Hard Drive loss.
Even for the loss of the information, and the retrieval, and all the heart break and frustration; I still use that product and am loyal to that product.

Open Source, freeware,, and donation ware has the advantage that they are made because folks like Markham want to make them, and want to deliver a better product than you could pay for. We are driven by a want to deliver success, not by the dollar in our pocket book.
Many folks that program in this arena are broke, and are on their own, and have little or no support at all, unlike large corps that have 100's of people working a program, so development is slow, and sometimes...well you just experienced it

Do not Drop open source programs because of a bad experience from one. That one is not an example of the majority.
I am ashamed that your bad experience is with Circle Dock,. but I still believe in the product, even for this set back, we will improve.
I hope that you will extend your patience to us, and try the next version, and the versions after that.
Because of you; Circle Dock just got better!
I am asking you to continue to help us make Circle Dock even better

I would also let you know that you have joined a fine community that is far more extensive than many realize.
Please stay, look around, and if you have questions, there are literally thousands of members standing by to help with Software, Technical information, and any other questions that strike you.

Welcome to DonationCoder.com
I am glad you came

Regards
The Sarge

thegipper · « **Reply #38 on:** February 04, 2010, 07:32 PM »

i wont comment on the "they could have ignored you" post, as "i could save initiated a lawsuit" is the only answer to that attitude. However, I understand the point that some programmers out there dont care, and that these guys are not part of that group.

sarge- where is the updated version posted?

seperately, why can it not be made portble already, without the needto install and "make a portable" whenyoure already inside the program?

Kamel · « **Reply #39 on:** February 04, 2010, 07:42 PM »

Quote from: thegipper on February 04, 2010, 07:32 PM

i wont comment on the "they could have ignored you" post, as "i could save initiated a lawsuit" is the only answer to that attitude. However, I understand the point that some programmers out there dont care, and that these guys are not part of that group.

sarge- where is the updated version posted?

seperately, why can it not be made portble already, without the needto install and "make a portable" whenyoure already inside the program?

I'm sorry if my words were taken wrong, I didn't mean to be anything but encouraging by the post I'd made. If it hurt more than helped, I can assure you my intent did not come across properly at all.

The offer is still on the table for the backup software. The only thing is, it only works on NTFS volumes, so if it's NTFS, feel free to ask and I'll see what I can do.

Veign · « **Reply #40 on:** February 04, 2010, 08:30 PM »

I think what any of the developer reading this post should take from this is 'Always fail safe'. If an operation has the potential to do damage then checks need to be made prior to performing the step. No bug in a software application should be allowed to do such damage. Yes bugs happen but developers need to learn to program in such a way that failing can't do such massive damage.

The rule of thumb is never effect the users environment unless the user (and developer) has 100% knowledge or understanding of what's about to occur.

joiwind · « **Reply #41 on:** February 04, 2010, 10:25 PM »

@ Wraith808 - I've PM'd you !

f0dder · « **Reply #42 on:** February 04, 2010, 11:48 PM »

Quote from: Veign on February 04, 2010, 03:50 PM

Why delete any files in any folder or drive? Why not ask the user to point to an empty folder and make it there responsibility to provide the clean folder. CircleDock checks the folder provided to make sure its empty, if not popup a warning that the operation could not be completed.

CircleDock is not an application that a user would expect to be deleting anything from their drive, regardless of warning boxes.

QFT.

This is not to point fingers at the developers - but the option to delete files is pretty weird, even if a confirmation dialog is added. (If the option is kept and a dialog is added, make sure not to have any default button - not even "cancel").

sgtevmckay · « **Reply #43 on:** February 05, 2010, 12:01 AM »

Quote from: thegipper on February 04, 2010, 07:32 PM

sarge- where is the updated version posted?

seperately, why can it not be made portble already, without the needto install and "make a portable" whenyoure already inside the program?

Apologies for the late response.
No excuses, just had Post-op knee surgery Visit and Physical Therapy

We are running a full comb through of the code to ensure this does not happen again, from any part of Circle Dock. So it is coming soon. Markham made a whole bunch of code changes just last Night.
We IM'ed for hours last night and I finally need some sleep. I was expecting a copy of the v1.5 and did not receive...My current belief is that he may have found something to correct. Once he is done, then I get a chance to go through it!
Then it will be released shortly there after, assuming I find nothing.
I know we need to get this out now, but better safe than sorry; again

On the settings page for the Portability what you are actually seeing is the ability to make CD portable now.
Simply click "Set Portable Mode". This will re-write the XML files to the same folder that Circle Dock is located in and will allow CD to be utilized as a portable application.
Once "Set Portable Mode" is active; The file that contains Circle Dock can then me moved, and or copied to any directory including Hard drives, Flash, other portables, etc.

Now the "Create Zip file" is almost a different animal, but delivers similar stripes.
The create zip file was created for the convenience of folks that wanted multiple distributions of their Circle Dock.
Such as My self; I create my dock from the full install. Then I package (zip) and then move to my thumb-drive and my MP3 player to take with me.
This option also allows me to share my dock setup with others, assuming my icons and everything are in the Circle Dock file when it zips.
This is also convenient when you are the Corporate IT person and the boss wants this an on a hundred Thumb-drives across several states and/or countries.
This also assists folks that want to run multiple incidences of Circle dock, as you then take the zip and unzip to appropriate other labeled files, and then run them each.
This also allows for a user to create a back-up of there current build of Circle Dock
For all the advantages: It is the documentation that is lacking!

I am partially to blame for this

Realistically you could create a zipped package of Circle dock right now, that is stable, but because the proper Documentation, and stop gap measure are not in place, better to wait for v1.5
if you are highly interested in doing a standalone package now, PM me and I will send you my current walkthrough on how to safely produce one.

Otherwise, Circle Dock as a standard install is stable and working.

Dormouse · « **Reply #44 on:** February 05, 2010, 01:03 AM »

Quote from: sgtevmckay on February 05, 2010, 12:01 AM

Quote from: thegipper on February 04, 2010, 07:32 PM
why can it not be made portble already, without the needto install and "make a portable" whenyoure already inside the program?
On the settings page for the Portability what you are actually seeing is the ability to make CD portable now.
Simply click "Set Portable Mode". This will re-write the XML files to the same folder that Circle Dock is located in and will allow CD to be utilized as a portable application.
Once "Set Portable Mode" is active; The file that contains Circle Dock can then me moved, and or copied to any directory including Hard drives, Flash, other portables, etc.

Now the "Create Zip file" is almost a different animal, but delivers similar stripes.
The create zip file was created for the convenience of folks that wanted multiple distributions of their Circle Dock.
Such as My self; I create my dock from the full install. Then I package (zip) and then move to my thumb-drive and my MP3 player to take with me.
This option also allows me to share my dock setup with others, assuming my icons and everything are in the Circle Dock file when it zips.
This is also convenient when you are the Corporate IT person and the boss wants this an on a hundred Thumb-drives across several states and/or countries.
This also assists folks that want to run multiple incidences of Circle dock, as you then take the zip and unzip to appropriate other labeled files, and then run them each.
This also allows for a user to create a back-up of there current build of Circle Dock
For all the advantages: It is the documentation that is lacking!
I am partially to blame for this

I think the question, from me at least, is why can't the Portable Version be available as a download? If someone (eg me) only wants to use it portably, it is a great deal more straightforward to have it like that from the beginning and never having to install CD at all.

And if the create zip does everything you say, how is it different at all to the Portable option (except for being zipped)

sgtevmckay · « **Reply #45 on:** February 05, 2010, 03:59 AM »

I was over ruled in this

Markham · « **Reply #46 on:** February 05, 2010, 04:16 AM »

Let me address some of the points made above.

The reason the "Portable App creator" is in Circle Dock is because some users were experiencing problems when they wanted to take a pre-configured dock and copy to a USB memory stick; the most common of which was missing configuration files.

When Circle Dock is run for the very first time, it does a check to see if its installation folder is protected by Windows UAC (regardless of the UAC setting). If it is, it places its configuration files in the current user's "AppData\Local\CircleDock" folder. This stops Windows displaying its UAC dialogs each time a change to the dock is recorded. If, however, Circle Dock is installed in a folder not protected by UAC (basically not the System drive), then its configuration files are stored it its System sub-directory.

A somewhat simplified version of the above is documented in the program's help system.

As for the next release, the Sarge is quite right in saying that it is undergoing test and, in fact, a replacement executable was supplied to the testers yesterday with the request that they check the "Portable App creator" thoroughly.

Like all developers, I am human, I am fallible and although I try to produce code that works right 100% of the time, that is often an impossible goal. And I can tell you this, all the developers reading this and its allied thread will be thinking, "there but for the grace of God go I".

"theGipper", the unfortunate user most badly affected by my mistake, questions his decision to use "open source" software. I can understand your thoughts and feelings but I'd ask you to consider this: does paying for software necessarily mean you will get a product that works correctly 100% of the time? The answer is, unfortunately, "no". Does paying for software mean that whenever bugs are discovered, the developers fix them immediately and rush to produce an update? Again, "no" - in fact some companies will charge you for an update that is supposed to fix the bugs in the version you bought! Some of the best quality software is free and developed by people who have a love for their product and pride in their work - something you won't find in the "coding farms" within the big software companies. You've had a bad experience and one that I can only apologize for but please don't let that experience put you off either Circle Dock or free software generally.

Mark

Archon of Fate · « **Reply #47 on:** February 05, 2010, 05:13 AM »

well said. no program is fullproof even commercial software, however the efforts that all of you are showing is that you care about the people who use this software and that is very admireable.

sgtevmckay · « **Reply #48 on:** February 05, 2010, 05:35 AM »

Well said Archon of Fate

I think there has been enough flaming Sauce flung here, and Hind site is almost always 20x20.

As I am tired of The "I" and "You should have" would'a should's could'a...done so and so and so.....
The lesson has been learned and duly noted!
I find that we have moved away from constructive criticism, and moved onto something that feels inappropriate.

TheGipper:
As you have questions, you are welcome to start another post or PM me directly for assistance.

This post is now locked.

sgtevmckay · « **Reply #49 on:** February 07, 2010, 05:42 PM »

Final Note!!!

This issue has a resolution that is available in version 1.5
Please update your current install with the latest version

Download the latest version here:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=20623.0

Regards
The sarge