Author Topic: Windows Security Essentials (Read 147,674 times)

jgpaiva · « **on:** September 30, 2009, 09:54 AM »

Looks like MS has released a free non-subscription antivirus!
Has anyone tried it?

http://www.microsoft.com/Security_essentials/support.aspx?mkt=en-us#mainNav

sri · « **Reply #1 on:** September 30, 2009, 10:01 AM »

Another joke from Microsoft. I would stay away from it.

Quote

Microsoft notes that Microsoft Security Essentials is an anti-malware program and should not be used while any other anti-virus program is still running on the PC.

Quote from http://www.techtree.com/India/News/Microsoft_Releases_Free_Security_Essentials/551-106629-580.html

Josh · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2009, 10:05 AM »

What's wrong with that quote? From my understanding, malware now includes viruses. So yes, like any other product in this category, I would not recommend running more than one at any given time due to negative impacts on the system.

Not being negative, just inquisitive.

cmpm · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2009, 11:33 AM »

I run Avira AntiVir Personal and bought Malwarebytes for full time protection. Malwarebytes says it can run with any antivirus program.

jgpaiva · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2009, 11:45 AM »

@sri: According to the microsoft site,

Quote from: http://www.microsoft.com/Security_essentials/support.aspx?mkt=en-us#mainNav

Microsoft Security Essentials provides real-time protection for your home PC that guards against viruses, spyware, and other malicious software.

From my understanding, this product replaces OneCare, which was a subscription-based antivirus product.
According to ChannelWeb, it's a contender in the free antivirus market:

Quote from: http://www.crn.com/security/220300307;jsessionid=IKPETVCB4N4QNQE1GHOSKHWATMY32JVN

MSE will, however, go head-to-head with other free downloads, provided by AVG and other antivirus vendors, which have relied upon free software to promote brand awareness and ultimately entice users to invest in paid security software

I very much like the idea, as soon as I have some time, I'll be removing avira in my mother's computer and replacing it by security essentials

sri · « **Reply #5 on:** September 30, 2009, 12:34 PM »

jgpaiva: I am looking forward to hear how MS Security Essentials fares against the free combo of Avira + Malwarebytes's anti-malware (free version of Malwarebytes doesn't provide real time protection).

lanux128 · « **Reply #6 on:** September 30, 2009, 12:58 PM »

DownloadSquad did a piece on this, perhaps this offering from Microsoft will fare better than MSAV.

having said that, i'm curious too how will this change the playing field..

• http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/09/28/microsoft-security-essentials-leaves-beta-available-for-downloa/

jgpaiva · « **Reply #7 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:02 PM »

lanux: you just gave bad news:

Quote from: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/09/28/microsoft-security-essentials-leaves-beta-available-for-downloa/

MSE will be offered to users in 19 countries including Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States.

No Portugal

AndyM · « **Reply #8 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:08 PM »

Quote from: jgpaiva on September 30, 2009, 09:54 AM

Looks like MS has released a free non-subscription antivirus!
Has anyone tried it?

Woody Leonhard seems to like it -

http://www.askwoody.com/2009/microsoft-security-essentials-today/

lanux128 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:12 PM »

Quote from: jgpaiva on September 30, 2009, 01:02 PM

lanux: you just gave bad news:
Quote from: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/09/28/microsoft-security-essentials-leaves-beta-available-for-downloa/
MSE will be offered to users in 19 countries including Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States.
No Portugal

there is a Softpedia link in that article, which allows one to download the program, but i'm not sure whether it checks for location when installing. only one way to find out.

P.S. additional link: http://www.filehippo.com/download_security_essentials_xp/

tomos · « **Reply #10 on:** September 30, 2009, 01:23 PM »

Quote from: jgpaiva on September 30, 2009, 01:02 PM

lanux: you just gave bad news:
Quote from: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2009/09/28/microsoft-security-essentials-leaves-beta-available-for-downloa/
MSE will be offered to users in 19 countries including Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, the United Kingdom and the United States.
No Portugal

maybe they mean it will be actively offered (windows update?) to users only in these countries.
(which would mean it would work anywhere - if that's the case)

Innuendo · « **Reply #11 on:** September 30, 2009, 02:00 PM »

I'm sure it's released and around for awhile there'll be no trouble downloading it no matter where you are in the world. That's just how the internet works. Companies try to trap their programs within country borders, but the internet knows no such boundaries.

How good MSE is, however, is something that we're going to have to wait to find out. Once the independent testing organizations put MSE through its paces & release the results we'll then know how it stacks up to its competitors.

mwb1100 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 30, 2009, 05:21 PM »

Looks very interesting - and it even supports XP, which surprises me a bit. However, MS has somewhat of a history of abortive antivirus attempts. But, it seems like this one might stick (but that's just an impression with no particular rational backing).

I'm not throwing out my exisitng solutions unless they show problems, but I do have a machine that I was evaluating new anti-malware on because my existing 'standard' stuff I had on it was bringing it to its knees. I'll be switching that over to MSE to see if it'll do the trick.

sajman99 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 30, 2009, 06:19 PM »

Despite the fact I don't think I have pre-conceived notions regarding Essentials, I cannot seem to get that idiom about "the fox guarding the chicken house" out of my head.

Innuendo · « **Reply #14 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:22 PM »

Quote from: sajman99 on September 30, 2009, 06:19 PM

Despite the fact I don't think I have pre-conceived notions regarding Essentials, I cannot seem to get that idiom about "the fox guarding the chicken house" out of my head.

My thoughts ran in another direction. Although it is an unproven program I was tempted to install it for MS's reputation for using undocumented system calls & hooks would probably be able to integrate a security solution into Windows better than any outsider could.

However, I resisted temptation and am sticking with Outpost Security Suite Pro for now.

Bamse · « **Reply #15 on:** October 01, 2009, 09:33 PM »

Actually Microsoft have been looking good at AV-Comparatives for quite some time now. And they still use OneCare not MSE. Not another Windows Defender and I dont see how they can go zzzzz on this. I have used for as long as possible and can only say I understand why certain companies are busy talking it down

There are some annoyances of course, if used to Kaspersky Suite you will laugh at interface, but I would guess main problem will be how high ram usage is received. Runs smoothly overall but Task Manager do not lie. Not that it matters out in the real world but surely good news for Avira, Avast. Avast soon release version 5 btw. Also looking very nice and I have read it is compatible with MSE. How that works Im not sure of but would be a wicked free package.

Innuendo, I think you should reconsider improving Outpost malware module because Virusbuster leaves something to be desired. MSE is not really unproven so if you want to get closer to magical 100% hitrate you should try it out. Im testing Outpost free right now, just because I can

No problems with MSE so should work fine with Pro as well.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #16 on:** October 01, 2009, 09:56 PM »

How long before the anti-trust lawsuits start up.

I suppose it is reasonable that MS should off free antivirus and other anti-malware protection since 99% of the time it seems to be Windows itself that has the security holes in it that are being exploited.

Just a shame they allowed a large third party group of developers build a thriving business base that Microsoft will now undoubtedly try and market out of business.

Perhaps MS should spend more time working on stopping the holes in the first place - and releasing patches in a reasonable time when they appear (which they aren't always good at).

Given that MacOS seems to be a growing target for malware perhaps MS should also produce a Mac version

f0dder · « **Reply #17 on:** October 01, 2009, 10:58 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on October 01, 2009, 09:56 PM

I suppose it is reasonable that MS should off free antivirus and other anti-malware protection since 99% of the time it seems to be Windows itself that has the security holes in it that are being exploited.

I kinda had the impression that flash and java were the biggest sinners these days, especially since UAC was introduced?

Innuendo · « **Reply #18 on:** October 01, 2009, 11:11 PM »

Quote from: Bamse on October 01, 2009, 09:33 PM

Innuendo, I think you should reconsider improving Outpost malware module because Virusbuster leaves something to be desired.

While it's true that Agnitum licenses the VirusBuster engine they have customized it to their own use & that's why you will see Agnitum's programs score higher in tests than VirusBuster although they use the same engine.

Agnitum also employs symbiotic relationships between all their various modules to give an experience that the the total experience is more effective than the sum of its parts. In another thread you spoke highly of MalwareBytes AntiMalware. Just the other day I purposely infected a PC with some stinky malware & Agnitum's security suite was able to detect everything MBAM did and they both cleaned the PC equally well. I was impressed.

And I am not an Agnitum fan by any stretch of the imagination. The only reason I am a customer is one day I had a fit of being nickeled and dimed to death for signature updates by the security companies & Agnitum had Outpost Security Suite Pro on sale with a lifetime license & free updates forever so I only bought it out of rage not confidence in their product.

However, I have been running it for the past few months & it has caught (and blocked) all sorts of attacks as I happily explore the seedy underbelly of the internet.

Innuendo · « **Reply #19 on:** October 01, 2009, 11:12 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on October 01, 2009, 10:58 PM

I kinda had the impression that flash and java were the biggest sinners these days, especially since UAC was introduced?

Oh, they are and it's only going to get worse. Even the Mac users are starting to experience Flash & Java trying to inject malware into their systems. So far it has only been primitive attacks, but I'm sure as time goes on the attacks will become more elaborate.

Bamse · « **Reply #20 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:26 AM »

I remember a post on Outpost forum where a moderator or rep. said the same Comodo does about their so so AV. Prevention and the package makes AV less important. Or he concluded that after giving up on chitchat about tests being valid or not. I was considering Outpost because of lifetime license so had to check them out. Pretty much dumped them because of AV. About that time I also lost interest in adblocking, a nice extra Outpost feature. There is good value in that deal you made regardless of Virusbuster not winning medals. I guess I prefer best possible AV than having to rely on my ability to handle advanced firewalls or what they are called. Seems like it is the better way to stop infections, I might lack trust in the method as well. Oh no, I clicked allow so my brilliant idiot proof setup is wasted! What happens. Had a Comodo period a while ago, almost took the fun out of computing

Comodo require special interest once you start tinkering but I can believe need for AV is close to zero with perfect settings. Can go wrong in so many ways I doubt that hold water. I hope Outpost Pro is more straightforward. Free version seems like it, default settings very relaxed.

If I set up a Virtualbox with Outpost Pro trial and cant get anywhere with infections while MSE is overrun I might reconsider. Im so low risk user it is boring but still want tiptop security of course

Real interest in "firewalls" is mainly system monitoring part not security, I welcome popups. Would much prefer Online Armor since the only one I really like to use. But no 64bit support or obvious alternatives in sight.

Innuendo · « **Reply #21 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:31 AM »

This just in....

Got an email from a friend who placed his trust in Microsoft Security Essentials. Seems he ran across a couple malware-laden sites & what's curious is while MSE popped up dialogs that it was blocking the download when he double-checked with MBAM he discovered that some malware MSE said it blocked had gotten through to his hard drive & installed itself.

I think I am going to recommend people for the time being to NOT install MSE & trust their safety to it.

Bamse · « **Reply #22 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:13 PM »

Can you give me details? like a link, Seems like it should be tried again. So after all this testing there is this gigantic bug, but by program or your friend? Not much download and installs itself unless Windows, browser including plugins are year old. Having an AV which recognize infection dont really help, heh. But often how accidents are explained

MSE do have channels for complaints, forum too so give them hell. If you send me link, and it turns out your friend have not misunderstood something, I will gladly post on their forum. This is MS but they should be extra alert these days.

Reminds of one of the weak points. History cant be saved or exported, 1 click on "Delete history" and it is all gone. Can see some problems in a removal situation. Info and details kind of important. They have said it will be improved in future version.

Try Google Mywebtattoos, SearchGuardPlus, Faster Browser Search - install and you get all products. Typical procedure. You say yes to 1 item, then much more is sneaked in, for "free". Not detected by MSE, browser or Malwarebytes. Really annoying to remove. Another one, Registryvictor.net not detected by any AV according to Virustotal. Download not by Malwarebytes either - I would think domain is blacklisted though. Is from a list supplying Malwarebytes with IPs. Registryvictor more a scam/rouge than anything else. Scanners cant figure that out, humans better with this http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/registryvictor.net

You can easily find 100% reproducible slips without reading emails

Can go on and on. Especially easy in the gray area - stuff Malwarebytes and others are good at but in realilty only taken care of by human blocking. You can find Google ads making Malwarebytes go crazy and anyone with a min. of knowhow warn against "do not install". Tragic but how it is. No news but one of the reasons I dont mind MSE taking market shares. The others have had the chance for years. I found pcrunsfast or "errorfix" from Google ad on a malware removal forum of all places. Spells problem out. Malwarebytes know that one, 100% rouge/scam and yet there is no help from any popular AVs. They all will say this is covered, even Windows Defender did.

EDIT: just had to add that if you install Tattoo stuff in IE it is still installed in Firefox. Useragent, search, homepage changed. Toolbar is not on your hd but online. A hidden Firefox extension from IE install!, does not appear in add-ons - cant be removed in other words. Is there but only 1 line in a fbstoolbar.txt file "{7B759CB6-4353-E772-CA81-4DC69D2492D9}". That ID is apparently picked up by entries in prefs.js made during IE installation. So to remove you have to clean up about:config or prefs.js All content in toolbar is online. Crap is targeted young people through spam, Facebook app and Myspace - this company will have a whole range of products. Not many will be able to remove, will instead get used to redirection and fixed sponsored results.

sajman99 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 02, 2009, 07:37 PM »

Quote from: Innuendo on October 02, 2009, 03:31 AM

This just in....

Got an email from a friend who placed his trust in Microsoft Security Essentials. Seems he ran across a couple malware-laden sites & what's curious is while MSE popped up dialogs that it was blocking the download when he double-checked with MBAM he discovered that some malware MSE said it blocked had gotten through to his hard drive & installed itself.

I think I am going to recommend people for the time being to NOT install MSE & trust their safety to it.

Given your excellent standing here in DC land, I don't for a millisecond question your veracity, so thanks very much for sharing this important information. I will certainly not be rushing into this one.

Innuendo · « **Reply #24 on:** October 03, 2009, 03:15 AM »

Quote from: sajman99 on October 02, 2009, 07:37 PM

Given your excellent standing here in DC land, I don't for a millisecond question your veracity, so thanks very much for sharing this important information. I will certainly not be rushing into this one.

Excellent standing? Nah...the guy with that is over there. I'm just a guy who talks a lot.