Author Topic: The Bat: Fix all the wrapping issues...now! (Read 23,201 times)

superboyac · « **on:** August 18, 2009, 04:28 AM »

The Bat's wrapping issues are really starting to wear on me. They need to fix this immediately. I mean, it is really ridiculous. It's the best email program out there, but this needs to be fixed right now.
I've commented on this here many times, but I'm doing it again. I've mentioned it on their stupid mailing lists and the reaction is always that it's not a big deal. Look, email's basic function is writing a bunch of text. That text needs to wrap like every other freaking box that you write in on a PC...all the way from Notepad to Word to any little form on the web. Why is it that everything can wrap normally but the Bat can't?

I just noticed that with the way I had my settings, the paragraph wrapping on the other end for my emails look stupid...all jagged with long and short lines. I didn't know this because I have it wrapping fine in the editor while I'm composing the message. I've tweaked the wrap settings many times just to get it to wrap like normal in my editor while I type...which is usually i want it to wrap according to my message window size. No other program have I had such issues, even with the slew of text editors I have tried.

And no, I don't want to use the plain windows editor option instead of Microed because then I'll lose the nice color features and other things.

I'm going to add some screen shots later when I have time about all these things.

This needs to be a priority for the developers. Don't even get me started on their archaic mailing list.

f0dder · « **Reply #1 on:** August 18, 2009, 02:36 PM »

Personally I just use Alt+L to wrap-format the paragraph I'm in, and that seems to work just fine?

superboyac · « **Reply #2 on:** August 18, 2009, 03:16 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on August 18, 2009, 02:36 PM

Personally I just use Alt+L to wrap-format the paragraph I'm in, and that seems to work just fine?

I understand the Alt-L thing, but that's not the only issue. Besides, like I said in another thread, why do we have to do that in the first place? I don't have to Alt-L in any other program I write in, but I have to do it in my email editor where I write more than anywhere else. They need to fix the wrapping so it works like a normal editor.

f0dder · « **Reply #3 on:** August 18, 2009, 04:09 PM »

*shrug*

I'm afraid I don't really see the issue - when I write in TB, my stuff gets auto-wrapped (and not in the way that normal editors (and outlooke/OE?) do, since that would produce a single long line of text). I only really need alt+l when doing copy/paste, or dealing with other people's badly formatted mails.

One wrapping issue I can think of is that very long words don't get split up decently - but I can live without hyphenation support in my mail client... I kinda like that it doesn't try to be a full-blown word processor

PS: if the receiving end doesn't use a monospace font, things will never look "right".

lanux128 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 18, 2009, 05:54 PM »

not wishing to rub it in, but wasn't The Bat voted the best email client here in DC? if it is of any consolation, PSPad had some problems with word-wrap some time ago but thankfully it was fixed in the later versions. by comparing an email client and text editor, i meant to imply that when it comes to programming edit controls, even a dedicated text editor can't get it right sometimes.

Innuendo · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2009, 08:37 PM »

Go to Options...Viewer/Editor...Editor Preferences...Make sure Auto-Wrap and Auto-Format are turned on and Justify on Wrap is turned off.

Fixes 95% of the problems with Word Wrap in the MicroEd editor and my emails look normal with uniform lines to all my friends.

superboyac · « **Reply #6 on:** August 21, 2009, 05:58 AM »

I used to have the settings you have above, Innuendo. However, with Auto-Format turned on, you'll notice that if you write and then start a new line by pressing <return>, as soon as you start writing on the new line, the cursor will jump back to the previous line and continue there. It's annoying. For example, I wouldn't be able to do the following:

----
list1
list2
list3
---

Because as soon as I press enter, list2 will jump back and turn into "list1 list2"

Again, my question stands: why can't it just behave like a normal editor, or at least have the ability through checkmarks/options, whatever, to behave normally. Look, even this DC forum posting box is normal and there are no options. The whole idea of it not able to behave normally is mind boggling to me for an email program.

superboyac · « **Reply #7 on:** August 21, 2009, 07:35 AM »

OK, so I decided to give up on microEd and go to the Windows plain text editor option. It's better, but now I lose this feature: The Bat can color quotations and stuff according to your settings. If I paste a quote in the Windows editor, it doesn't get the color applied to it automatically. if I do the same in microEd, the color automatically gets applied. So now I lose that. The Bat developers need to work on all these things with the editor.

Like I said, I love the program, but it seems the developers are stuck in their own little world. Development is pretty slow, which is not a big deal because the program works well and is mature. But little fixes like this never happen. What they spend all their time fixing and adding is beyond me. I'm certain they are predominantly weird, little features that most people don't care about. Their documentation is horrible and non-existant. Again, I normally wouldn't care about that, but the Bat has so many options and features, even i can't figure everything out on my own.

And of course, their support is way too archaic. It's a mailing list. So to ask a question, you have to sift through a whole mailing list. They have a forum, but all the "real" users use the mailing list, so there's nothing of value in the forums. They might as well not even have it. So, the best way to read the mailing list is to use a newsgroup reader unless you want to actually subscribe to the emails, which is nonsense just to ask a couple of questions about your email program. It's not like I want to follow the development of the Bat every day, like it's the most important thing in my life (I already do that here!).

Seriously, I love the program, but they need to get with the times.

f0dder · « **Reply #8 on:** August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM »

I still don't see the issue, really.

Apart from lack of hyphenation, MicroEd mode wraps perfectly for me. What exactly is your problem? Time to add those screenshots, perhaps?

superboyac · « **Reply #9 on:** August 21, 2009, 04:37 PM »

Quote from: f0dder on August 21, 2009, 10:29 AM

I still don't see the issue, really.

Apart from lack of hyphenation, MicroEd mode wraps perfectly for me. What exactly is your problem? Time to add those screenshots, perhaps?

OK, do this:
--make sure Auto-Format is turned on
--start typing in MicroEd
--press <Enter> once to go to the next line
--start typing on the new line. you will see that the cursor jumps back to the previous line continues from there as if you didn't press enter.

So, you will say, "disable Auto-Format". Sure, that solves the problem. But now there's another problem. Without auto-format, I can't go back and edit a paragraph and have it automatically reflow and rewrap. I'd have to use the Alt-L trick to fix the paragraph after I've finished editing it.

So, there you go. It's very frustrating and they need to fix it like right now.

mouser · « **Reply #10 on:** August 21, 2009, 05:07 PM »

Quote

Without auto-format, I can't go back and edit a paragraph and have it automatically reflow and rewrap. I'd have to use the Alt-L trick to fix the paragraph after I've finished editing it.

that's what i use.
it is a bit annoying i agree. but it's just a minor annoyance for me.

superboyac · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2009, 05:57 PM »

Quote from: mouser on August 21, 2009, 05:07 PM

Quote
Without auto-format, I can't go back and edit a paragraph and have it automatically reflow and rewrap. I'd have to use the Alt-L trick to fix the paragraph after I've finished editing it.

that's what i use.
it is a bit annoying i agree. but it's just a minor annoyance for me.

it bothers me more than it probably should because I expect a lot out of the Bat. I agree that it's the best, most powerful client out there. They just need to fix this. Let's say I write 20 emails a day. I have to use <enter> how many times? Like 60? So each time, i have to either go back and fix it, or turn it off and do a ctrl-l.

The other reason why it bothers me is that they don't fix version after version. I sent a help ticket, so maybe something will happen.

mouser · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2009, 06:08 PM »

well i mean you really DO have a point --
they keep messing with features that probably get used by 1 out of 100 people, once per year.

where the editing of email text messages happens many times per day by every user -- so it's not so much to ask to get this right.

superboyac · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2009, 06:47 PM »

I've been very irritable lately...I used to be much more polite. The past few months have done a number on me. Girls, work, all those things that can get to a guy.

superboyac · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2009, 09:34 PM »

Want to know why i am frustrated? I sent a help ticket to Ritlabs to inquire whether the auto-format thing was a bug or not. And if not, could it be modified so that you don't have the line jumping back thing. This is the response:

Quote

Hello,

I am sorry to say, but this is not a bug, it's a feature of MicroEd. Auto-Format works that way for years and we do not intend to change that...

First of all, it's just a strange response. Most developers would be more than willing to change something like this. But I am not asking them to change, just add a checkbox or something so we can have it both ways. I've done this to you, mouser, plenty of times and you have always graciously added practical features to your programs. Very seldom do you say the feature will not be implemented, unless there really is a good reason for it (and there is sometimes). But this is not a good reason. i think they are either being stubborn or out of touch. i don't even think it would be that hard. Again, it reminds me of their mailing lists and why they insist upon doing it that way. Hardly a good reason.

Innuendo · « **Reply #15 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:21 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on August 21, 2009, 05:58 AM

continue there. It's annoying. For example, I wouldn't be able to do the following:

----
list1
list2
list3
---

Because as soon as I press enter, list2 will jump back and turn into "list1 list2"

That's why I said 95%. It's not perfect & in your example when the text turns into "list 1 list 2" just put the cursor right before "list 2" and hit enter. It'll stay properly formatted then. It's inconvenient & I can see your point, but the advantages of using The Bat! far outweigh the disadvantages of the editor.

Innuendo · « **Reply #16 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:29 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on August 21, 2009, 07:35 AM

And of course, their support is way too archaic. It's a mailing list. So to ask a question, you have to sift through a whole mailing list. They have a forum, but all the "real" users use the mailing list, so there's nothing of value in the forums. They might as well not even have it. So, the best way to read the mailing list is to use a newsgroup reader unless you want to actually subscribe to the emails, which is nonsense just to ask a couple of questions about your email program. It's not like I want to follow the development of the Bat every day, like it's the most important thing in my life (I already do that here!).

Seriously, I love the program, but they need to get with the times.

What one user calls archaic another user may call refreshing. I wish all the programs I used had a usenet support forum. Having all the support for all my programs just a click away in my newsreader would make me very happy. I realize, though, that not everyone likes usenet, but if one just wants to keep up on the support forums there's access through the web & configurable RSS feeds. That's four ways to access their support forum. Surely one of those methods will trip your trigger.

superboyac · « **Reply #17 on:** August 25, 2009, 04:24 AM »

I am pretty convinced that the developers of the Bat are not really all that friendly. They will not respond to any of my feature suggestions anymore and they refuse to address the problem I've explained here other than to say "That's how it is and we're not going to change it." It doesn't make sense to me because the feature I am asking for doesn't change anything, it just adds a small feature, something most developers would easily and gladly add.

Again, I asked for the following feature:
--When Auto-Format is turned on, have an additional option (checkbox) to enable/disable "Allow single carriage return"

There's no reason for current users to oppose this idea because it would be transparent to them. If they don't want anything to change, just leave it off and everything will be the same. But for others like me, it allows us to start new lines without having to press Enter twice, while still keeping the auto-format reflowing features, and the other benefits of using microEd. Yet, many users in their mailing list oppose the idea and keep telling me to just use Alt-L. I'm not looking for a workaround. I know about Alt-L. That's not the point. I know how to do it if I have to, I just feel it's too much work for something that needs to always happen.

This is not the first time I've been frustrated by the Bat's developers and community. A few months ago, I asked a question that was critical about MicroEd on their forum, and the banned me from the forum without warning and removed the thread. I was not being mean or rude, I was just questioning and somewhat critical. This was the first and only time my feature suggestions and comments about a program have not been appreciated and actually had a negative response.

Quote

That's why I said 95%. It's not perfect & in your example when the text turns into "list 1 list 2" just put the cursor right before "list 2" and hit enter. It'll stay properly formatted then. It's inconvenient & I can see your point, but the advantages of using The Bat! far outweigh the disadvantages of the editor.

Innuendo, no offense, but this is exactly the type of response I am getting from the other users. I know you mean well, but my point in asking was not because I couldn't find a workaround. I know how get it to work the way i want using the current features. What I'm frustrated about is the extra steps it takes, which I feel can be eliminated if they add my feature suggestion.

Every day for the last several years, when I use the Bat, i probably have to do a few extra steps because of this wrapping issue. I wouldn't care so much normally, but in this case, it's a tool that I use way too much to go unsaid.

Innuendo · « **Reply #18 on:** August 25, 2009, 08:00 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on August 25, 2009, 04:24 AM

Innuendo, no offense, but this is exactly the type of response I am getting from the other users.

No offense taken. I guess I don't see what the problem is because I have always typed the way MicroEd expects me to...going all the way back to when I first started with computers back in the mid-80s. I always double-space between paragraphs as that is the way I was taught to type, etc. The only time I ever run into a 'problem' is when I try to type something like your "list 1 list 2" example, but it's always easily fixed.

You may need to start looking for a new email program if it irritates you so much & the developers won't see your way of thinking.

superboyac · « **Reply #19 on:** August 25, 2009, 10:41 PM »

Quote from: Innuendo on August 25, 2009, 08:00 PM

You may need to start looking for a new email program if it irritates you so much & the developers won't see your way of thinking.

Nah, it's not that serious. The Bat is still by far the best email program. I'll deal with it. but I do feel the whole Bat community is kind of out of touch...quirky at the very least. I suppose it's typical of programs that offer a lot of power and customizations.

Innuendo · « **Reply #20 on:** August 27, 2009, 03:25 AM »

Quote from: superboyac on August 25, 2009, 10:41 PM

Nah, it's not that serious. The Bat is still by far the best email program. I'll deal with it. but I do feel the whole Bat community is kind of out of touch...quirky at the very least. I suppose it's typical of programs that offer a lot of power and customizations.

I found the same quirkiness with the ReGet Deluxe community with their usenet support forum. It must be an Eastern Europe phenomena.

rjbull · « **Reply #21 on:** September 03, 2012, 10:05 PM »

Don't know if it helps yet, because I've only just spotted it. My emphasis.

Quote

The Bat! 5.2
08/23/2012 New features

New filter action – "Clear all tags"
Added profiles for re-filtering a folder
Filter action to add/delete addresses to/from address book can now extract target addresses from message body with template
It is now possible to quick-search folders in the folder selection dialogue
Nickname/Handle from Address Book can be used in TO parameter of /MAIL switch in command line
Nickname/Handle from Address Book is automatically expanded when used in address macros (TO, CC, ...) in templates
Added folder set tabs in the folder selection dialogue
Option to wrap text in "Plain text (Windows)" editor

Improvements

"Paste as plain text" option added to popup in the Edit Mail Message Form
System folders (Inbox, Outbox, Trash, etc.) can have their own settings for templates, deletion etc.
Now if files are dropped onto an Address History item, the editor uses the corresponding e-mail address as the destination
Some visual fixes in "View Mode Setup"
Empty lines are now correctly displayed in POP.log and SMTP.log
Double clicking on a list column separator expands column to fit its contents
When an account is created by selecting folder in MAIL folder, the account name and home directory are automatically filled
Image content is used to determine real image type (for example, name has PNG extension but there is GIF image inside)

Fixes

View Mode option "Expand All Threads" cannot be ignored during changing threading or switching between View Modes anymore
Temporary files are now deleted after auto-save in the message editor
Deletion of common folders could sometimes give an Access Violation error
Large folders are not opened slowly on Windows XP anymore
Message create/receive time is correctly displayed without degrading folder loading performance
Fixed a bug when only the first message was used for checking against filter condition when a filter was applied to several selected messages using Hotkey
Text settings like Date/Time separator are now retrieved correctly from the system's registry if the text is one character long
Message list cannot lose changes made by incoming filters anymore (setting color group in IMAP folder for incoming messages wasn't visible before refreshing folder)
Fixed stack overflow when trying to parse malicious or malformed HTML with too many nesting tags
(#0000014) Fixed problem with wrong timezone offset in new message header if "(GMT) Greenwich Mean Time: Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London" timezone is used in daylight saving time
"Resend" message action now uses "Delivery type" option in "Account Properties" to send message immediately or put it in Outbox
Fixed "-ERR Invalid command" response from POP3 server when opening message in Dispatcher
Fixed an AV when trying to save attachment by drag-and-dropping it from message stored on HDD (anti-virus check enabled)
Application does not freeze when doing mass mailing of big messages anymore
Solved the problem that appeared when copying/moving several messages between folders of the same Gmail account
File selection dialog does not hide current window – message editor or address book – anymore
Fixed memory corruption if Message Finder was closed when searching was in progress
Solved the problem when System Hotkey "Open MailTicker messages" did not bring opened message to front on Windows XP
Fixed possible deadlock when updating counters for IMAP folder
(#0000059) Fixed the problem with certain graphics that could not be accessed in tabs
Solved possible access violations related to logging subsystem
Fixed reported errors on some received S/MIME messages that were encrypted by weak keys

superboyac · « **Reply #22 on:** September 04, 2012, 03:55 AM »

^^That's weird. You already could wrap text in the windows editor. What are they adding?

The issue is wrapping text in the microed editor. Maybe they'll address it in the next 10 years if we're lucky.

Then, you say, why not just use the windows editor? Well, because the other nifty formatting features don't work well. For example, if i paste quoted text (has a ">" symbol at the beginning of the line) in Microed, the lines automatically turn purple (or whatever the color for quotes is). That is very cool. But if you do the same in the Windows editor, it doesn't automatically get colored. The live styling changes only work well in microed. In the windows editor, it only works in the beginning when you open the window, after that if you edit or change stuff, the auto-formatting doesn't work.

So it's a dilemma. Do I want the coloring in Microed? Or do I want no-headache wrapping? Since the wrapping is a bigger headache, I usually use Windows editor. but I get annoyed when the colors don't work.

dvally · « **Reply #23 on:** September 09, 2012, 07:48 PM »

I empathize with you.

I stopped using TheBat! for the same reasons you mentioned, even though I am a licensed user.

I purchased Softmaker Office Pro and part of the suite is the "eM Client" which I have switched to using exclusively for email.

No email client is perfect, however I didn't want to deal with the frustration any longer. It was time to cut bait and run.

Just my opinion, I know many others mileage may vary...

DV

rjbull · « **Reply #24 on:** September 09, 2012, 08:55 PM »

Quote from: dvally on September 09, 2012, 07:48 PM

I stopped using TheBat! for the same reasons you mentioned, even though I am a licensed user.

Lately it's been infuriatingly slow at picking up my e-mail, though I updated at the same time as installing a new router (don't think that should affect things). I need to face up to checking my ISP's Web site in case it's their fault, but a brief trial of Opera's built-in e-mail client seemed to give much faster mail retrieval.

Quote from: dvally on September 09, 2012, 07:48 PM

I purchased Softmaker Office Pro and part of the suite is the "eM Client" which I have switched to using exclusively for email.

No email client is perfect

Er, does that mean that some things about eM Client are already irritating? And it's just a case of which program irritates less? I have Softmaker Office Home, without eM Client, and I've heard Thunderbird development may have ceased, so I'm interested in alternatives.