Author Topic: What's your mouse of choice? (Read 77,032 times)

Darwin · « **Reply #25 on:** February 21, 2009, 03:01 PM »

Er... what's a free-wheel?

app103 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 21, 2009, 03:04 PM »

Quote from: Darwin on February 21, 2009, 03:01 PM

Er... what's a free-wheel?

When you scroll the wheel on your mouse, most have little "bumps" that "click" as you scroll.

Free-wheel (I prefer the term smooth-wheel) doesn't have that. It's smooth, quiet, and you have greater control. But it's one of those things that you either love or hate, and if you love it, it's hard to find a mouse with it.

tomos · « **Reply #27 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:08 PM »

Quote from: app103 on February 21, 2009, 03:04 PM

Quote from: Darwin on February 21, 2009, 03:01 PM
Er... what's a free-wheel?

When you scroll the wheel on your mouse, most have little "bumps" that "click" as you scroll.

Free-wheel (I prefer the term smooth-wheel) doesn't have that. It's smooth, quiet, and you have greater control. But it's one of those things that you either love or hate, and if you love it, it's hard to find a mouse with it.

sounds nice
if you spin it does it keep going - is there that little resistance?

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #28 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:12 PM »

I'm using a Logitech G5 right now. Standard stuff includes the normal 3 buttons and wheel, plus a "back" button by the thumb.

For extra coolness, the wheel tilts for sideways scrolling, and there are also two buttons below the wheel; these are programmed by default for changing resolution, but I've set them to "Home" and "End", which helps me all over the place.

The really unique thing here is the weights. It's a fairly light device on its own, but it comes with a set of little weights that you can insert to give the mouse more substance. I find that giving it somewhat more mass really does make a positive difference in the feel.

I used to love A4-Tech mice, but I've gone through quite a few of them. The features are great (including freewheeling), the feel is fine, but I found that they would start to malfunction in one way or another after a year or year and a half.

cranioscopical · « **Reply #29 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:25 PM »

Quote from: Darwin on February 21, 2009, 03:01 PM

Er... what's a free-wheel?

Our spokesman says, "something of which you'll never tire".

AndyM · « **Reply #30 on:** February 21, 2009, 04:45 PM »

Quote from: tomos on February 21, 2009, 04:08 PM

sounds nice
if you spin it does it keep going - is there that little resistance?

From the descriptions, it sure sounds that way. I have to say I'm very curious. I'll have to go someplace and check one of these out.

app103 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:00 PM »

Quote from: tomos on February 21, 2009, 04:08 PM

sounds nice
if you spin it does it keep going - is there that little resistance?

No, not like that, but it does take much less effort and a much lighter touch to move it. After using a smooth wheel for about 2 years, using a normal mouse wheel has a certain "ewwww" factor that feels "cheap" to me.

Darwin · « **Reply #32 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:28 PM »

Ah, thanks for clarifying that! I've never used one, but it sounds analogous to some touchpads that allow you to scroll using the bottom and right edges of the pad?

Quote from: cranioscopical on February 21, 2009, 04:25 PM

Quote from: Darwin on February 21, 2009, 03:01 PM
Er... what's a free-wheel?
Our spokesman says, "something of which you'll never tire".

Or feel deflated about, no doubt?

app103 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:35 PM »

I think the closest thing I could compare the feeling to that you might be familiar with is the tuning knobs on an old TV.

The main VHF knob always clicks to each station. The UHF doesn't, and allows you more precision for positioning the knob to the exact spot required to tune in a station.

That's the same kind of feeling of precise control you get with a smooth wheel.

Darwin · « **Reply #34 on:** February 21, 2009, 05:57 PM »

Excellent analogy, App

I miss those old sets - I hate being forced to use a remote control, for example. My newer (ie four year old) tv is pretty much useless without the remote - can't watch dvd's without it, for example, because there is no switch on the set to get to Video One. Talk about dumbing things down...

Paul Keith · « **Reply #35 on:** February 22, 2009, 04:29 AM »

Thanks again app.

With regards to the smooth wheel, as someone who hates it, I can't really say it's analogous to an old TV knob but I might be thinking of a different model.

It's really just a mouse scroll wheel that goes from really stiff to really really loose so if you do tons of scrolling, you could theoretically "drive" the precise scrolling motion with your fingers where as a normal scroll wheel it would be up a page then up a page then up a page.

I think the best way to get a feel of it is to middle mouse click on either Opera or Firefox. The cursor should change to a 4 sided icon and you can quickly scroll with the mouse around except imagine doing this without moving the actual mouse but just moving the scroll wheel.

Edit: Also IMO it feels different from a two sided trackpad but I've never used one of those. I'm just trying to imagine their feel by basing it around the Ipod's touch circle. Also IMO the lighter touch is set back by the heavy mouse and the larger than normal scroll wheel but I'm referring mostly to the MX Revolution model since that's the one I tried.

steeladept · « **Reply #36 on:** February 22, 2009, 06:17 AM »

Quote from: app103 on February 21, 2009, 05:00 PM

Quote from: tomos on February 21, 2009, 04:08 PM
sounds nice
if you spin it does it keep going - is there that little resistance?

No, not like that, but it does take much less effort and a much lighter touch to move it. After using a smooth wheel for about 2 years, using a normal mouse wheel has a certain "ewwww" factor that feels "cheap" to me.

Actually, on my VX Revolution (I forgot that part before - Thanks TucknDar), it does mean exactly that. On long pages I have sent it spinning with a quick little flick and it kept going to the bottom of the page (or up as the case may be). You can see what it looks like here:

[attach]

Paul Keith · « **Reply #37 on:** February 22, 2009, 07:53 AM »

Yep, I think the MX Revolution model is the same hence I originally coined it "loose" but after reading app's post, I think she might have a gentler touch and that's the reason it works extra well for her. It could be that the resistance is enough that once she goes past the "zone of tightness" she's not really pushing on the wheel as much as driving it. (The wheel has two phases. The first being a slightly more tighter scroll than I'm used to for when moving in short areas and only once you continue scrolling will smooth scrolling activate)

app103 · « **Reply #38 on:** February 22, 2009, 08:17 AM »

Quote from: Paul Keith on February 22, 2009, 07:53 AM

Yep, I think the MX Revolution model is the same hence I originally coined it "loose" but after reading app's post, I think she might have a gentler touch and that's the reason it works extra well for her. It could be that the resistance is enough that once she goes past the "zone of tightness" she's not really pushing on the wheel as much as driving it. (The wheel has two phases. The first being a slightly more tighter scroll than I'm used to for when moving in short areas and only once you continue scrolling will smooth scrolling activate)

I am completely clueless as to what you are talking about. What zone of tightness? What 2 phases?

There is no real difference between my mouse wheel and a normal one other than the fact it doesn't click..it has no bumps*. I don't know what your mouse wheel is like but mine is just as I described in my 2 different tv knobs comparison.

The stuff you are talking about is YOUR mouse, or some other brand & model of mouse I don't own.

Remember, mine is an Evoluent VM2, not a Logitech.

Quote from: steeladept on February 22, 2009, 06:17 AM

On long pages I have sent it spinning with a quick little flick and it kept going to the bottom of the page (or up as the case may be).

Nope, mine doesn't do that, and to be honest I am really glad it doesn't.

^{*The proper term for it is detents, which my mouse wheel doesn't have, and therefore it's smooth.}

superboyac · « **Reply #39 on:** February 22, 2009, 08:49 AM »

Let me clear up Logitech free-spin scrolling: There are two versions of this technology. The first was introduced with the MX Revolution. The second was introduced later, like on my MX 1100. Here are the differences, and I'll try to be clear because they are subtle:

MX Revolution:
The scroll wheel has two-modes. It can scroll click-by-click like most mice, or it can scroll with a free-spin (think of lifting a bicycle off the ground and spinning the front wheel, that's exactly how it is). But how do you switch between the two modes? Well, one way is that the mouse detects it automatically depending on how quickly you flick the wheel. If you go really slowly, it will just click-click as usual. But if you give it a quick flick, it will go into free-spin mode. The other way is to set the wheel middle-button click to switch between the two modes. The disadvantage to that is that you lose the ability to program the middle-click for another function.
I think this information is correct, but since I don't own the Revolution i may be off. but I used it in stores.

The problem with the technology above was that, apparently, many users just wanted to be in one mode or the other. They didn't want the mouse to automatically determine which mode is best. maybe some users want to flick the wheel hard, but don't want to go to free-spin mode. So, Logitech changed the technology.

MX 1100:
OK, this is the one I have (and love). On the MX 1100, the auto-recognize spin mode was taken away. If you want to switch modes, you simply press the little button located behind the scroll wheel. In the Revolution, this button was some kind of "quick search" button where you can highlight a word, press the button, and have the word automatically googled or something like that. Anyway, so that's it. The wheel is either completely in free-spin mode or in click mode. No more hybrid, auto-detect mode.

I love the free-spin mode and use it 99% of the time. The control you have with it is exceptional.

I hope that clears up the technology. i was confused for a while also. i had to read a lot and go to the stores to try them before I understood completely.

I also want to clear up another point of confusion. The Logitech free-spin mode is more than just not having the click. I used to have the Microsoft wireless mouse and it didn't have a click either...it was smooth. but it wasn't free-spin. There was a viscosity to it. Free spin is just like the bicycle example I mentioned above. Other mice may not click and be smooth, but they probably can't keep spinning with a flick.

app103 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:07 AM »

That's very different than what I have.

Mine never click-clicks. It can't click-click. It has no detents to do that click-clicking with.

There is no 2 modes. There is only no click-click.

superboyac · « **Reply #41 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:20 AM »

Quote from: app103 on February 22, 2009, 09:07 AM

That's very different than what I have.

Mine never click-clicks. It can't click-click. It has no detents to do that click-clicking with.

There is no 2 modes. There is only no click-click.

Hmm...ok. Then I need to make a correction. There is no physical click-click, but the mouse will behave like a normal clicky mouse when it is in that mode. So the two modes are controlled entirely by the software, and physically the wheel is always in free-spin mode.

That leads me to conlcude that the newer technology is just better. Because now you can actually get the physical clicking back if you wish.

Thanks app. Shoot! And I was trying to be crystal clear. i ended up adding more confusion!

steeladept · « **Reply #42 on:** February 22, 2009, 09:49 AM »

I don't know about the other mice, but on the VX Revolution (as compared to it's larger brother, MX Revolution) there is a little slider switch to manually adjust how much "click" is available. I find it nice as I occasionally set it to one setting or another depending on what I am doing (and how much I do it). At first I didn't like the free-wheel much, but as I got used to it, I am finding I use it more and more in all situations.

Just a personal preference though. I can definitely see where others would prefer the detents.

Paul Keith · « **Reply #43 on:** February 22, 2009, 10:04 AM »

Thanks app, superboyac and steeladept. I think based on your clarifications that there really is no way to generalize the free-scrolling/smooth scrolling/loose scrolling technology into a mouse as this is just too subtly different between each models to figure out.

I think if possible this topic should also address this as a side issue. Which model's actual scrolling feels best? I know it can switch from person to person but for someone looking at these topics in order to find the right mouse, it could be troublesome to not trying to find out and forcing them to find each models of mouse hoping that it will give them that special feeling yet not knowing what special scrolling feeling they should be looking for.

Edit:

slaps forehead

Oh wait. Apologies app. When you were talking about scroll wheel feeling, I thought you were referring to a different model than the ergonomic one. Unless I'm mistaken, the reason it doesn't have bumps is because it's like a smaller scroll ball on the mouse right?

Something feeling like this if the size of the wheel was bigger and more exposed?

mahesh2k · « **Reply #44 on:** February 22, 2009, 10:14 AM »

What's your mouse of choice?

Mo(-u)serBear

Hirudin · « **Reply #45 on:** February 22, 2009, 10:28 AM »

superboyac I think your description of Logitech's version of the free-spinning scroll wheel is spot on. I've used 3 different MX Revolutions and they all behave the same way, just as you describe. I used-to love the auto-switch-to-free-spin mode of the Revolution and was disappointed to see that it was no longer available on my G9. The G9 doesn't switch automatically, there is a completely inconvenient button on the BOTTOM of the mouse that switches between free-spin and "detent-ified" modes. I just use it in free-spin mode at all times, I've grown to like it a lot.

Here's a video that shows the 2 modes of Logitech mice...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSLZ8m0ABoM

masu · « **Reply #46 on:** February 22, 2009, 10:38 AM »

OCZ Equalizer Laser Desktop Mouse

http://www.2cooltek.com/images/P/Equalizer_D.jpg

bgd77 · « **Reply #47 on:** February 22, 2009, 12:01 PM »

My favorite mouse:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[attach]

tomos · « **Reply #48 on:** February 22, 2009, 12:10 PM »

Quote from: superboyac on February 22, 2009, 09:20 AM

Quote from: app103 on February 22, 2009, 09:07 AM
That's very different than what I have.

Mine never click-clicks. It can't click-click. It has no detents to do that click-clicking with.

There is no 2 modes. There is only no click-click.
Hmm...ok. Then I need to make a correction. There is no physical click-click, but the mouse will behave like a normal clicky mouse when it is in that mode. So the two modes are controlled entirely by the software, and physically the wheel is always in free-spin mode.

App isnt using a logitech mouse lol (i.e. she's saying how the make/model she has is different)

PS hi to bgd77's favorite mouse

Nod5 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 22, 2009, 08:33 PM »

Logitech's VX Nano also the free scrolling wheel. It has a tiny USB receiver, is light and is comfortable to use. The main drawback is that middle mouse clicking is a real hassle. The free scrolling wheel can middle click but it takes much more force to click and it is VERY easy to unintentionally both middle click AND scroll up/down. If you use middle clicks a lot then the mouse becomes almost unusable in that scroll wheel mode. I don't use it as my primary mouse. It is perfect as a laptop mouse when travelling though. I hope they find a way to re-engineer the free wheel so that regular middle clicks work. An simple hack would be to move the search button from behind the wheel to right in front of it. It is currently placed to far from the fingers natural resting place. It puts a lot of strain on the fingers to often reach back and use that button for middle clicks (I tried it for a few days). And the side buttons are not so good for that either (tried that too; middle clicks are best done with a button in the middle of the mouse)

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/3271&cl=US,EN