Noah is almost fantastic, but what is it?

[Curt]

I would like to tell you a lot about this new program I've downloaded today, but my English vocabulary is very tiny, especially when it comes to describing such a 'new' kind of program. Noah is a PIM and an email client and a email client's manager and a Internet browser and a bookmark manager and a RSS reader and a organizer and.. - so I don't really know what to call it - I mean, Noah is almost fantastic, but what is it?

Anyway, it would make a lot more sense to you if you would just watch the video tutorial, and download the gratis program yourself. However, I have to point out that it is also a 'new' kind of (harmless) adware! [Edit: The program is American - if you care.]



I am very impressed with this program, and considering it merely is version 1.0 I believe Noah has great potential!




http://www.gen-9.net/index.html

[mouser]

Nice find, curt.  Definitely interesting to read.

I think it may be a little ahead of it's time in terms of being a better idea than an implementation, but i think the main idea is important.

We all have related data spread out everywhere.

Although this noah seems to enforce a timeline and topic oriented approach to organizing information, i think the future will look more like a dynamic filtering/tagging system, which will basically let you view all your documents in very different ways.  Want to work will all your email, you'll see an email centric approach organized where when you view an email you can related documents on your disk relating to the user your are emailing.  Switch to timeline view to see a timeline with all the documents you worked on, emails made or received, on that date, etc.  Or use keywords to show all data on your computer (and online) relating to your finances, etc.

[allen]

Ahead of its time or behind?

The idea of merging everything isn't new--but no sooner did such suits start to surface, and people started reverse engineering to separate them under the premise that, in general, it's better to have one app that does one thing brilliantly than one app that does everything somewhat.

I'm sure it's fine, but... does it have the e-mail power of The_Bat! or Poco or Becky, does it have the browsing power of Opera or Firefox, et cetera.

Maybe everything will go full circle again. And again.

[dspelley]

I thought the idea was an interesting one - I'm always on the lookout for an application that will let me look at various kinds of data and show the relationships among them.

I downloaded and tried Noah, but it couldn't import my Thunderbird inbox so I stopped right there. During installation it displays a listing of Outlook and Thunderbird email folders it finds on your machine, and lets you select which ones it should import. Unfortunately, the Thunderbird Inbox was not among them. I don't think it has provisions for importing from any other email program. I don't recall seeing a way to import a csv or other flat file, but I didn't look at everything.

[Curt]

Noah was not ment to replace your email client, but to organize your plans.

[nontroppo]

When Operating systems get better metadata support, the needs for these kinds of apps will diminish. These apps are really just glue to overcome the ugly, weak folder hierarchies and lack of comprehensive search in traditional file systems. But while tagging and metadata is a wild hit on the web, OSes keep dragging their heels.

[CWuestefeld]

Although this noah seems to enforce a timeline and topic oriented approach to organizing information, i think the future will look more like a dynamic filtering/tagging system

I'll see that and raise you one. Even tagging requires too much from the user in terms of anticipating the contexts from which he'll be interested in an item years down the road. I've given up on any kind of proactive organizing or structuring. It must work on the inherent content and metadata itself. This app appears to start down that road:

In Noah you never have to spend hours searching for this stuff again, it's all in one place arranged by date and time. If you can roughly remember when something happened, you can find it with a few clicks, and you will find everything else that was happening during the same day, hour, or minute.

But the timeline is only one small aspect of the goal.

I've been working smoothly for some time now using desktop search (Microsoft at work, Copernic at home). Recently my employer "enhanced" the Exchange servers, using a Symantec product called Vault that archives old messages offline while providing a "searchable" (note my scare quotes) index to get back to them. Their idea of searchable is laughable, and this has really thrown a wrench into my ability to organize my work.

[nontroppo]

This app appears to start down that road

But this should be done at the OS, not application level. Metadata is going to be useless in Noah when all your other applications know nothing about Noah's way of doing things. Metadata is my hobbyhorse. I've long campaigned for Opera to unify its data stores; currently we have page history, bookmarks, mail, RSS, IRC chat all in their own little fiefdoms. I wanted all this to be stored together with rich metadata, and the browser to be broken down into a data miner, in much the same way Noah is structured. But really that just pushes the problem one step further, because then that data is inaccesible to my file manager, my global search interface, and any other software that could take advantage of it.

[justice]

amen. please convenience the powers that be and I will move to the OS that does this best. Vista tried, then removed it before the public releases. Leopard is on its way. Beos users know how powerful this can be... searching through your mail, contacts etc as they were all stored as metadata and individual files. I'm sure if BeOS was still going strong we'd be there by now alas. It's mind blowing, provides an amazing degree of freedom and changes the way you manage and combine previously isolated information.

[nontroppo]

The problem with metadata, as Armando clearly posited, is portability. Currently as it is Leopard has fantastic metadata support (they hired the BeOS file system designer after all!). There are some 120+ core metadata attributes for any file in my system, this is accessible from any app, or even the command-line. A daemon, mds (metadataserver), uses FSEvents notification so when any new file lands in the file system from anywhere, it scans the file and fills up as much metadata attributes as it can. Any developer can code a metadata importer to import their proprietary formats metadata in the same transparent way. All of that is immediately available via spotlight, or whatever UI you want to build round the core framework. And as a core part of the OS and file system (not some 3rd party hack on top), this service is available to all. Apple even have a way of saving this metadata on non-apple drives, where a sidecar file is generated (like XMP in some ways).

BUT - when I give my file to my colleague who is not using OS X, they can't use all that juicy metadata goodness. I and many others were hoping Vista would pick up the can from the crappy metadata support in XP, so that a bridge could be built. But alas.

Another problem is stasis. People are used to folders, they've twisted their mental models to traversing up and down hierarchies like an indecisive mountaineer; of arbitrarily having to classify something as "a" OR "b". And so though the technological base is finally there at least in one popular OS (BeOS not being so popular sadly ), adoption of it will take time, and people are wary of change. I want the future today goddamit! But until then clumsy stopgaps and programs like Noah will have to do.

[Armando]

Yes, we want portable-compatible-accessible-indestructible metadata!!!!!    We want it at the OS level, we want it to be easily searchable and useable, and we want it now!

(Unfortunately, maybe, tags in filenames is still the best option I came up with. It does work pretty well : portable, fairly compatible, very accessible and almost indestructible. It's even useable *everywhere*, in any software or database : from files to emails, outlook tasks and events, farr aliases.... you name it -- the only requirement is : enough characters. It's not that sexy though, a bit abstract for most people's taste.)

[DBC]

I would like to tell you a lot about this new program I've downloaded today, but my English vocabulary is very tiny, especially when it comes to describing such a 'new' kind of program. Noah is a PIM and an email client and a email client's manager and a Internet browser and a bookmark manager and a RSS reader and a organizer and.. - so I don't really know what to call it - I mean, Noah is almost fantastic, but what is it?

This sounds on the face of it rather like another program, Omea Pro, that eventually became freeware back in december 2006: http://www.jetbrains.com/omea/

"Omea Pro 2.2 replaces tools like your Email Organizer, Desktop Search Utility, RSS Reader, Personal Information Manager, Newsgroup Reader, Task Manager, Contact Manager, Bookmark Manager, and Instant Message History Manager. It can also read your Files in Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, Adobe Acrobat, and view your Pictures, in one Integrated Information Environment."

DBC

[Perry Mowbray]

I am very impressed with this program, and considering it merely is version 1.0 I believe Noah has great potential!

Are you still playing with this Curt... and what are your impressions?

[urlwolf]

This app appears to start down that road

But this should be done at the OS, not application level. Metadata is going to be useless in Noah when all your other applications know nothing about Noah's way of doing things. Metadata is my hobbyhorse. I've long campaigned for Opera to unify its data stores; currently we have page history, bookmarks, mail, RSS, IRC chat all in their own little fiefdoms. I wanted all this to be stored together with rich metadata, and the browser to be broken down into a data miner, in much the same way Noah is structured. But really that just pushes the problem one step further, because then that data is inaccesible to my file manager, my global search interface, and any other software that could take advantage of it.

nontroppo, can you post the thread in the opera forums here?
I'd like to give it my support.

[Curt]

Are you still playing with this Curt... and what are your impressions?

I am not playing at all.... My one and only project needs nothing more than a reminder and an authoring tool like Liquid Story Binder or (merely) IMBT PageFour - so I removed Noah, it was of no use to me, or I didn't understand how to take advantage of it.

But I was still impressed with it.

[nontroppo]

nontroppo, can you post the thread in the opera forums here?
I'd like to give it my support.

I didn't make a proposal in the wishlist but debated directly with developers etc. Access points were asked for bookmarks a long time ago; if you want to read more:

http://my.opera.com/operabluesky/blog/2007/09/23/acess-points-for-everything-part-i
http://my.opera.com/non-troppo/blog/2007/07/20/the-curses-of-hope - item 2

One Opera employee would ideally like a CLI for Opera, kind of like FARR for the browser, this would require tagging and unified data for full effectivity:

http://my.opera.com/csant/blog/2007/01/17/unleash-the-powers

I wrote a manifesto for unified data storage about 2 years ago but that is not publically available...

[Perry Mowbray]

I am not playing at all....

Sorry Curt, didn't mean "play" in a derogatory sense, but more in "investigation, experiment"

But I was still impressed with it.

Thanks 

[Curt]

I am not playing at all....

Sorry Curt, didn't mean "play" in a derogatory sense, but more in "investigation, experiment"

No offence taken - I understood your question the same way you explained it. Frankly I am the one who should apologize, because sometimes Curt really is too curt... in particular when I am to express myself in (my kind of) English!

[Perry Mowbray]

No offence taken - I understood your question the same way you explained it.

That's very good then!! 

Frankly I am the one who should apologize, because sometimes Curt really is too curt... in particular when I am to express myself in (my kind of) English!

Not at all, I guess it's all part of being part of a multi-cultural, multi-lingual community. (I just wanted to make sure...)

[Curt]

... being part of a multi-cultural, multi-lingual community.

Do I have a folder of such kind of community... ?!!

[attachthumb=#]

[Curt]

Noah 1.0 was Noah, but Noah 2.0 Beta is StratoVista! http://www.stratovista.com/
However, this beta version is for invited, registered Noah users only.

The final StratoVista will be $50
Beta testers will be offered to have it for $30.

They still have a very fine video tutorial:
http://www.stratovista.com/video_tutorial/StratoVista%20Tutorial/StratoVista%20Tutorial.html

Introduction

StratoVista is a new type of software platform that is designed to help you organize, manage and securely share your information with coworkers, friends, and family members, no matter where they are located. It’s a powerful collaborative tool capable of managing virtually any type of data – emails, notes, application files, appointments, contacts, Web pages, RSS feeds and more - easily and logically using a common "data canvasses" we call Topics. One of the biggest benefits of doing this is the ability to easily find what you’re looking for when you want it. After all, you can’t use, or share, your information until you find it first. And when you do, StratoVista makes collaborating with your friends and colleagues possible with just a few simple clicks of your mouse.

http://www.stratovista.com/
http://www.stratovista.com/Features.htm
http://www.stratovista.com/Tutorial.htm

As a registered Noah user you've been invited to participate in our StratoVista beta test. StratoVista, or Noah 2.0 as it was originally called, has all of the features of Noah 1.0 and much more. To compare StratoVista's set of features with Noah's go to http://www.stratovista.com/Features.htm.
 
StratoVista comes with a detailed user manual with embedded video tutorials for each of the key features ( http://www.stratovista.com/Tutorial.htm ).
 
StratoVista Beta will be made available on a first-come, first-serve basis for a limited time only. To download StratoVista Beta go to http://www.stratovista.com/StratoVista Beta.htm .
 
StratoVista Beta is a fully functional version of the current application with no time limits on its use. When you install StratoVista your Noah 1.0 database will be automatically upgraded (see the user manual for more details about installation).
 
When this beta test is complete StratoVista v1.0 will be made available to all beta users for $29.95 for a limited time (the regular price is $49.95). This price will include one year of free upgrades and online support.
 

[rknyci]

Hi Curt,

Just wanted to say that we appreciate your postings for both Noah and StratoVista. 
By way of a thank you we can arrange for you to download a free reviewer's copy
of StratoVista - Google Edition v1.0 and a $20 discount for the other participants.
If interested, send an email to info@gen9.com with the subject "Donationcoder sent me".

Thanks Again!
 

[J-Mac]

Hi Curt.

Now this is an example of "necromancing" threads that is beneficial!! Your latest post would have been pretty darned cryptic without the rest of your Noah thread. Please keep us all updated on Noah 2.0/StratoVista. Sounds very interesting. And the developer is apparently very helpful, too, as seen in his/her reply post to you.

Thank you.

Jim

[Curt]

- yeah, Jim. I was of course very pleased to get such a generous offer. Wow! However, their program seems (to me) to be useless without one or more Google widgets, and I am not pleased with the idea of having any Google apps installed on my desktop.

I am still thinking about what to do, though. Any more advices?

[rknyci]

Hi Curt,

There's no need for Google widgets. StratoVista connects to Google Web Services via API's for each Google site.

-Kind Regards-