Author Topic: EverNote beta 2.2.0.372 has some nice new features (Read 106,284 times)

iphigenie · « **Reply #50 on:** March 21, 2008, 12:42 PM »

The advantage for the developer of such a system are quite clear

* you know exactly how many users you have, on how many machines
* you can have avertisements on the free users
* you can have a subscription model for advanced features, rather than just a one-off license model. It can even be cheap, of the $1/month variety, which can mean nice steady income
* you can get some very useful information on what your users use/do to help you figure out what to improve and where to take your app.
* you can have surveys, trial features etc. and get feedback

For the user it's a mixed bag -theres the trust/privacy issue, but then there's the you-get-free-online-backup and you-can-access-anywhere sweeteners.

I suspect many people did want a "googleapps" style version of onenote to access all their annotated snippets anywhere - at least they did when asked in surveys. It's cool, it's trendy, you'd have to be a crusty luddite to say no to such a survey (depending on how the question is asked - i bet there was no "sorry i want to own my data" option in it)

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #51 on:** March 21, 2008, 01:30 PM »

I think that is the point - the give away of the day (mentioned in another thread) is pretty disingenuous because I bet Evernote version 3 will be free anyway but you need a paid subscription to use it - and to get people to bite they are giving away a free trial until it moves out of beta. Doubtless you will continue using the same account - but only in a paid version.

It also explains why they aren't responding to beta tester concerns about the online experience!!! People are forgetting - beta testing is making sure the software does what is required by the developer - not about providing what the beta testers want.

I am sure there will be people who will like the new model - but I'd guess there will be a lot of current customers who will simply dump Evernote as it is not what they bought into. Evernote probably don't care because they have a reputation now that means they can attract new customers to the service model.

We have to face it Evernote 2.2 is the end of the line unless you want a paid never ending subscription to a service that is at best unnecessary and at worst potentially worrying. Grab it while you can or forget Evernote. I have OneNote 2007 so I guess I will do the latter.

If you actually want all the sharing features etc. suggested then personally I think a website based on something like Drupal or Wordpress where you can set up access by group membership would be a free and better approach. If you just want note taking software what is the point?

Tekzel · « **Reply #52 on:** March 21, 2008, 01:55 PM »

Quote from: J-Mac on March 20, 2008, 12:47 AM

I don't really like Evernote 3 that much so far. Your database is on their server - no more local databases. And your backups are also online. If you have no internet connection you're out of luck.

Also, it appears that there is no more auto-category tagging, severely reduced category intersection features. By trying to make Evernote an "access from anywhere" application they have placed a lot of limits on it. The beta forum doesn't seem to be a very happy place lately.

Jim

If this is indeed the direction they are going, then I will never use the new version. I require my data to be local. Period.

Edit: Maybe it is time to revisit note taking software? I have been searching for the perfect note taking program for a long time. I used to use Keynote but after that died, I moved to Neomem. After that one died, I moved to Evernote but wasn't entirely happy with the tape thing. There was a period where I tried out OneNote but I hated that thing immediately. I want a good old tree based note taking program with rich text editing capabilities in notes. Why do people think they have to reinvent the note taking app in such weird ways like Evernote? One feature I would like in a note taking program is a new note hotkey that I can use from anywhere and it JUST pops up a note entry dialog with the ability to select a category from a drop down and the editing controls. Nice and compact, when you use the hotkey from Evernote it brings up the whole ugly unwieldy app interface. Why does taking notes have to be rocket science?

Armando · « **Reply #53 on:** March 21, 2008, 02:14 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 21, 2008, 01:30 PM

We have to face it Evernote 2.2 is the end of the line unless you want a paid never ending subscription to a service that is at best unnecessary and at worst potentially worrying. Grab it while you can or forget Evernote. I have OneNote 2007 so I guess I will do the latter.

I've followed EverNote's shift, and about a month ago (like some others : superboyac, tomos... but maybe for different reasons) I've decided that my new webclipping/note taking app would be SQLNotes.

It can already do some of what EverNote 3 wants to do (it can pull data from remote databases, allow multi-user simultaneous editing, etc.) but will also always remain what it is now : a PIM/note taking program with just a local database. (You can of course have as many databases as you want.)

It's still in beta, but it's already got great power (more that Evernote )and PPLandry (Pierre) is listening carefully to users' suggestions. Documentation is still in its infancy, but figuring out the app (especially for most experienced DCers...) shouldn't be a problem with the documentation already available at http://www.sqlnotes.net/ (and more specifically there : http://www.sqlnotes.net/Documentation/tabid/65/Default.aspx )

SQLNotes currently uses JET for storage -- which does the job perfectly well IMO -- but will soon be able to use multiple back-ends (like SQL Server). see part of the discussion here : http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=10432.msg104014#msg104014

SQLNotes can be used simply, or in a complex way, using all the different features to view or manipulate your data. You decide! It can be used to just jot notes and then later organize them (type ctrl+alt+n like EverNote, and start typing!), or it can be used to organize your entire life... Especially with the new Calendar coming reeaaal soon and the Gantt charts coming a bit later. It's flexible, "scriptable"... Just what I like!

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 21, 2008, 01:30 PM

People are forgetting - beta testing is making sure the software does what is required by the developer - not about providing what the beta testers want.

And that's what I like about beta testing SQLNotes : Pierre allows the application to evolve (Quickly!) according to the users' needs (after discussions, etc. of course). And he uses SQLNotes himself, of course...

Armando · « **Reply #54 on:** March 21, 2008, 02:21 PM »

Quote from: Tekzel on March 21, 2008, 01:55 PM

I want a good old tree based note taking program with rich text editing capabilities in notes. Why do people think they have to reinvent the note taking app in such weird ways like Evernote? One feature I would like in a note taking program is a new note hotkey that I can use from anywhere and it JUST pops up a note entry dialog with the ability to select a category from a drop down and the editing controls. Nice and compact, when you use the hotkey from Evernote it brings up the whole ugly unwieldy app interface. Why does taking notes have to be rocket science?

SQLNotes does that.
- type ctrl+alt+n : start to write in a little window (not the whole interface, like EverNote), click "add" (or type alt+a)
- Go in your "inbox" grid to see your note (the grid's name can be changed and your note can be sent elsewhere too : you decide)

SQLNotes doesn't use the tape metaphore, but will be able too quite soon for those who want it like that. Right now it's more what you're describing : "a good old tree based note taking program with rich text editing capabilities in notes." and MUCH MUCH more. But it could be used just for that : simple note-taking.

Tekzel · « **Reply #55 on:** March 21, 2008, 03:46 PM »

Thanks for your suggestion Armando, but I just don't care for SQLNotes at all. Hate the interface and the way it works with a passion.

kartal · « **Reply #56 on:** March 21, 2008, 04:09 PM »

Sql notes can be very very efficient once it is complete. Also I suggest you to try Ecco before Sqlnotes. Ecco is quite efficient and I would say bug free.

Dormouse · « **Reply #57 on:** March 21, 2008, 04:31 PM »

Well, SQLnotes is projected to be a megabucks product post beta.

And, I've read the whole of the big thread and the various bits of documentation and donwloaded and tried the beta a few times. And I still don't really know what it is, or why it looks why it does, or what I would use it for.

I had no problem understanding why I would want Evernote or how I would use it (store & search info from many sources - not really sure why it was called a note taking utility or what real similarity there was to Keynote). Ditto for OneNote (outline, plan, create plus search/store all relevant info); not really the same usage as Evernote, but could be made to do the same work. Very easy to work out how to make them do what I wanted.

I'm sure it is very powerful. It certainly looks as if it should be very powerful. But I just haven't been able to 'get it' so far, though I don't mind trying again every now and then.

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #58 on:** March 21, 2008, 04:35 PM »

I had exactly the same reaction Dormouse ... SQLNotes simply baffles me and I have tried it 3 or 4 times and ended up deleting it again. I also suspect it is going to cost big time when completed!

PPLandry · « **Reply #59 on:** March 21, 2008, 05:00 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 21, 2008, 04:35 PM

I had exactly the same reaction Dormouse ... SQLNotes simply baffles me and I have tried it 3 or 4 times and ended up deleting it again. I also suspect it is going to cost big time when completed!

I'm the designer of SQLNotes, allow me to clarify a few things:

SQLNotes can be as complex or as simple as you want. As I get user feedback, each new version is easier to use. I agree that it is not an easy program to grasp (mostly since the data is clearly separated from the UI).
Special introductory price has been set to $49.99
Documentation is improving. Checkout the new step-by-step Getting started guide: http://sqlnotes.wikispaces.com/Getting+started

This mock-up picture represents quite well the SQLNotes philosophy:

You put your data in the box and then decide what you want displayed on each of the views (i.e. box sides). But remember, the data sits in the box, not on any of the views. So the same data can be viewed from many sides. Views include rich-text outlining grids, rich-text editing pane, properties pane with user-defined forms, pivot tables / charts and soon Calendar, Contact Cards and MindMaps

[attachthumb=#]

superboyac · « **Reply #60 on:** March 21, 2008, 05:38 PM »

Quote from: Dormouse on March 21, 2008, 04:31 PM

I'm sure it is very powerful. It certainly looks as if it should be very powerful. But I just haven't been able to 'get it' so far, though I don't mind trying again every now and then.

Dormouse, I was in exactly the same postion you are in right now when i started that SQLNotes thread. I know it may be hard to believe now because I'm such a gung-ho SQLNotes fanboy, but I was very skeptical when I tried SQLNotes the first time. Before I even started that thread, I installed and uninstalled the program quickly at least 2 times, because I thought it was so strange. I thought, "this is something specifically designed for the ECCO cult, which i am not familiar with at all. This is useless for people who just want a notetaker." I was using Evernote for my notes (which is still great).
To be really honest, in my mind, I thought SQLNotes was similar to TaoNotes, which in my opinion, is one of the strangest and poorly designed notetakers out there. So, basically, I didn't think much of SQLNotes initially.
But I was wrong. Really wrong. SQLNotes is the greatest thing since sliced bread. When it's complete, it will combine the function of so many software I use, including Evernote, Calendarscope, access, mybase, texnotes in a really cool way.

I'm writing all of this not to promote the product, but for your own good. I really feel if you just put in the effort to "get" sqlnotes, you will be blown away with what you can do with it.

J-Mac · « **Reply #61 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:34 PM »

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 21, 2008, 04:35 PM

I had exactly the same reaction Dormouse ... SQLNotes simply baffles me and I have tried it 3 or 4 times and ended up deleting it again. I also suspect it is going to cost big time when completed!

Make that three of us, at least.

I must not be "geeky" enough! When I last tried it the documentation wasn't quite what I need to get going with something like this. (Sorry Pierre - I just couldn't "get it"

)

I need something where the developer has taken care of the program stuff and added a UI that is more or less self-explanatory.

Jim

J-Mac · « **Reply #62 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:40 PM »

Putting it another way - I usually have no problem when someone explains something to me the first time. I really do catch on quick (regardless of what my wife says!!)

But I haven't yet heard anything from anyone using SQL Notes that has clarified anything for me. Anytime someone asks me to give it another try, they just point me toward the beta site and tell me it is really easy once you get started. I just can't seem to get to that "Aha!" moment that I usually do with most applications. I haven't said much because I figured it was only me who didn't "get it".

When you are on a forum filled with coders you can start to feel really..... "duh"=like!

Jim

PPLandry · « **Reply #63 on:** March 21, 2008, 07:58 PM »

Quote from: J-Mac on March 21, 2008, 07:40 PM

But I haven't yet heard anything from anyone using SQL Notes that has clarified anything for me.

OK, how about these metaphors:

A very large Excel sheet where you can control which rows and columns are displayed. Multiple views of the same sheet. Making a change in one updates all others
A standard 2-pane outliner where the 1st pane (outline) is dynamically generated, not a static outline
Wikipad with wiki links in both the wiki content and in the wikiOutline
A database where you can add fields as easily as records or "Easy MSAccess" as superboyac once said
All this data is visible (live) by ODBC enabled applications (Word, Excel, Access)
Can pull data from on-line database for local browsing. If Mouser created a read-only account on DC MySQL server, you could have a local copy of whole DC content... 1 click refresh... wouldn't that be nice?
And the list goes on and on

I hope this helps. The free phone call would certainly help too. Anytime...

tomos · « **Reply #64 on:** March 21, 2008, 08:58 PM »

for me I could straight away see the possibilities in the sense of it being a database -
now I've never used database software, barely use office software (excel etc) so it's been, eh, interesting

figuring out SQLNotes!

First example,
I use it to gather song lyrics - in the simplest manner:-
Item=Title; Notes pane=Lyrics.
The beauty of it is that this info can be expanded at any time - who has sang this, if there's different versions, anything and then I can get into Pierre's "Cube" view by filtering to see what I want. That does take a bit of learning ..I've only learned the very basics but it's keeping me going

I'm now using it successfully for
timekeeping for work and keeping track of files I'm working on -
I just drag a file in and it creates an "item" which is a link to that file - or I drag in 100 files, no problem.
I can keep track of what "stage" they are at and relevant details of when changed etc, whether approved etc. using columns/(fields)
This is all one could say reasonably automated -
I click here - date goes in automatically there - colour of item changes so I can tell at a glance what has been done, what need to be done and where. More details on that here

From a hierarchical point of view, everything can have more than one parent (comparable to cloning and/or tagging) -

Another Example:-

I'm working on 50 drawing files whose "Grandparent" is USA
They have various parents depending on which State they are related to e.g. Maine, Virginia, etc

I'm preparing an invoice for work done on 20 of these files
so I copy these 20 files/items into my Invoice item
I can then sort everything e.g. first by State (original/other parent), second by item (alphabetically) or by date or whatever

I can then export as a webpage (html with expandable links showing or hiding notes related to the items) and send this along with the invoice to give very details info about work done and current progress/situation of the individual drawings

~~~~~~~~~

As Pierre says,
the whole programme is gradually being made more user friendly and the wiki is getting more pages regulalry
It is a beta - I think there does need to be a lot of work done on getting the practical concepts across of how to structure the info within a "Grid"/view, also on how to filter/show the info and how that is then shown depending on which viewing preferences are chosen.
If you dont understand that last bit it's because it's really a message to Pierre

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #65 on:** March 21, 2008, 09:41 PM »

De-hijacking....

So, how about that EverNote program?

J-Mac · « **Reply #66 on:** March 21, 2008, 09:41 PM »

Quote from: PPLandry on March 21, 2008, 07:58 PM

Quote from: J-Mac on March 21, 2008, 07:40 PM
But I haven't yet heard anything from anyone using SQL Notes that has clarified anything for me.
OK, how about these metaphors:

A very large Excel sheet where you can control which rows and columns are displayed. Multiple views of the same sheet. Making a change in one updates all others
A standard 2-pane outliner where the 1st pane (outline) is dynamically generated, not a static outline
Wikipad with wiki links in both the wiki content and in the wikiOutline
A database where you can add fields as easily as records or "Easy MSAccess" as superboyac once said
All this data is visible (live) by ODBC enabled applications (Word, Excel, Access)
Can pull data from on-line database for local browsing. If Mouser created a read-only account on DC MySQL server, you could have a local copy of whole DC content... 1 click refresh... wouldn't that be nice?
And the list goes on and on

I hope this helps. The free phone call would certainly help too. Anytime...

Pierre,

There is no denying that you have offered help to many potential users. But as I mentioned recently to superboyac, I need application-specific documentation to 1) Learn at MY pace, which may differ greatly from anyone's one-time helpful comments, and 2) I also need same documentation to reference as I need it.

The app has been in beta and the thread about it was made over five months ago and I haven't seen anything that I would need to get involved with SQL Notes personally. IMO, it is as important to develop a user-friendly UI as it is to develop a strong application! If that ever happens then perhaps I will try it again. Without an interface I feel I can use and reference docs, I am going to continue my quest for a database app I feel comfortable with, and a notes program for day-to-day use.

Thanks!

Jim

J-Mac · « **Reply #67 on:** March 21, 2008, 09:42 PM »

BTW, sorry for the OT post, though I don't think I brought that up!

Jim

tomos · « **Reply #68 on:** March 21, 2008, 09:43 PM »

Quote from: CWuestefeld on March 21, 2008, 09:41 PM

De-hijacking....

So, how about that EverNote program?

well I'll be sticking with current version of Evernote and wait and see what happens as beta progresses

cranioscopical · « **Reply #69 on:** March 21, 2008, 10:59 PM »

I've been watching the thread and sub-thread here with interest.

Nothing's going to make me switch to a system that refuses to hold data locally.
I don't trust the interweb enough for that. I'll be interested to see how Evernote 3
develops but if it really turns out not to allow local data I'm going to wish I'd not
bought it. I'll feel cheated that something bought in good faith has no upgrade
path except for one so divergent from the original concept.

As for the other...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

... to un-de-hijack for a moment I'm another in the 'don't get it' camp of
those who've looked at SQL Notes and come away feeling baffled. Perhaps that's
because I don't really need what (I think) it offers and so lack the motivation to
dig deeply enough to unearth its treasure. I do rather feel that I must be missing
something good, and better documentation would surely help.

I see Pierre being unfailingly helpful but, at the moment, I don't know enough about
what I don't know even to frame some meaningful questions.

kartal · « **Reply #70 on:** March 22, 2008, 02:51 AM »

Try Ecco first, it is free by now. You can download it here

ftp://ftp.netmanage.com/support/pub/utilities/EC401/Ecco32

and here are the docs for Ecco

ftp://ftp.netmanage.com/support/pub/utilities/EC401/Doc/

Once you use Ecco you will appreciate what Sqlnotes is trying to be. Also you can also see that how good developers of Ecco was. I mean this(Ecco_ software can yet handle today`s information keeping standards.

Quote from: J-Mac on March 21, 2008, 07:34 PM

Quote from: Carol Haynes on March 21, 2008, 04:35 PM
I had exactly the same reaction Dormouse ... SQLNotes simply baffles me and I have tried it 3 or 4 times and ended up deleting it again. I also suspect it is going to cost big time when completed!

Make that three of us, at least.

I must not be "geeky" enough! When I last tried it the documentation wasn't quite what I need to get going with something like this. (Sorry Pierre - I just couldn't "get it" )

I need something where the developer has taken care of the program stuff and added a UI that is more or less self-explanatory.

Jim

Dormouse · « **Reply #71 on:** March 23, 2008, 04:33 PM »

I've replied to the SQLnotes posts in the SQLnotes thread.

Back to EN Beta. I've tried it. It does have a local option atm. It can import databases from EN2.2. The PPC option may be useful. It's even possible that I will think of uses for the web option. I don't think I'll give up on EN yet; I'll just see how it goes; I hope that they will get more power back in to it. I do agree with cranioscopical that it is annoying to have the program transform into something that seems fundamentally different. OTOH, there's nothing to stop me continuing with 2.2 as is, with 3 for any stuff I want available more widely and always with the option to export my 2.2 database to 3.

CWuestefeld · « **Reply #72 on:** March 23, 2008, 04:57 PM »

Quote from: Dormouse on March 23, 2008, 04:33 PM

there's nothing to stop me continuing with 2.2 as is

The version I have an installer for is 2.2.0.384. After installation it downloads an upgrade to 2.2.1.386. But once 3 is out, I doubt that they'll support that upgrade. Does anyone know how to get an actual installer for 2.2.1.386? I don't see any way to download the licensed version directly.

tomos · « **Reply #73 on:** March 23, 2008, 05:48 PM »

Quote from: CWuestefeld on March 23, 2008, 04:57 PM

Quote from: Dormouse on March 23, 2008, 04:33 PM
there's nothing to stop me continuing with 2.2 as is
The version I have an installer for is 2.2.0.384. After installation it downloads an upgrade to 2.2.1.386. But once 3 is out, I doubt that they'll support that upgrade. Does anyone know how to get an actual installer for 2.2.1.386? I don't see any way to download the licensed version directly.

when I bought it it was a promotion (reduced, called "EverNote Plus 2.1 - D3 Promo" on the download page),
got a "Handango" invoice mail with a link for downloading - just tried it (but I do have to give my details) and was able to download latest.
I have a feeling though I bought "download protection" after buying it cause I couldnt find the mail or something
but if you can find your invoice mail see can u download from that
"EverNote Plus 2.1 - D3 Promo" is officially the full programme but it doesnt have a liscence number $:-\$

Carol Haynes · « **Reply #74 on:** March 23, 2008, 05:52 PM »

None of the Evernote apps have a license number.

What you need to do is uninstall. Reinstall the older version and start the upgrade again. While it is downloading the updated version check your user Temp folder (in XP is is at c:\Document and Settings\<user id>\Local settings\Temp and you should be able to find the installer.

Once it has downloaded quickly copy and paste it as IIRC the updater deletes the installer when it finishes.

This is the full version installer.