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Eudora, Hermes and Pandora - also compared to TheBat! and other email clients

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Steven Avery:
Most of my email play is on:

Verizon mail - grandfathered to AOL. (downloaded by POP)

Runbox (small account, downloaded by POP)

Various Gmail accounts that simply forward to the Verizon-AOL and then any deletion of the Gmail is at leisure, usage is mostly "that day" or if for some reason my home base client is less accessible. It does work well with my iPad .. especially the biz email, or resets of passwords, etc.


Eudora 7, a fantastic email program, is hitting more modern encyrption demands like TSL 1.1 and 1.2.  This means that the original Eudora 7 download will, in some cases, (and increasing) not download mail.  The server will time out, or refuse the connection.

Hermes is a new project built on the Eudora source code, which Qualcomm, after some hesitation, nicely put into the public domain! The main purpose is to fix those areas, like encyrption and certificates, where Eudora might fail. E.g. specific .dlls might be replaced. Other things might be updated, like fonts or emojies.  It is unlikely that much of the core code would be rewritten, since the tools today are very different than 25 years ago. 

(Penelope was a Thunderbird attempt to have a Eudora look-and-feel that went nowhere.)

Pandora is an excellent attempt to make a "Eudora-like" program by a gentleman named Brana. It can be discussed separately. Note that it has the potential to add some features, (e.g. virtual mailboxes would be possible, although I do not expect that they are currently on the road-map).  Feature improvements is very limited for Hermes, since the core code is Eudora.  However, it has recently become ready for prime-time.

And I mostly use Eudora and TheBat!, later in the thread I can explain why I use both.  And I also play with Pandora.


Quick mention of about ten other email programs.

Other less techie and robust alternatives include eM Client, the more Outlook-type program that some use. Claws Mail is another. Mailbird has proponents.  Postbox too. Thunderbird is still active. SeaMonkey is a minor player, also like Postbox built on Thunderbird. Outlook has its own world (and maybe PIM clones like Essential PIM?) em Client also compares themselves to Mail and LiveMail.

In somewhat of a purist email legacy mode we have Becky!, Pegasus and Poco-Barca, yet each one has its current situation. 

I have tried many of these, and always come back to a Eudora-TheBat! world.


Information largely from the

Eudora for Windows forum (no archives, I am using my inbox)

Join this for any future updates.

Posts from Ken starting around Feb. 27, 2019.  Ken had improved the Hermes instructions. 
(Also contributions from hoplist, Dave Andrews, and the super-helpful Katrina Knight.)

There is also a check that you have the proper "MS C ++ redistribution".


You can navigate to your Eudora program files folder and check the dates of libeay32.dll, QCSSL.dll, rootcerts.p7b, and ssleay32.dll.  If QCSSL.dll is dated any earlier than Oct. 29, 2018 (or if any of the other 3 files date earlier than Aug. 15, 2018), you don't have what you need to ensure Eudora is working with TLS 1.1 and 1.2, which are increasingly required by mail servers.

Here are some instructions for getting this updated library installed into your Eudora 7.1:


This is not complicated, simply explained step-by-step,


Although the developers working on Hermes haven't yet released that, they HAVE released an updated SSL library for Eudora that you can patch right into your existing copy of Eudora 7.1.  It will (1) resolve a lot of certificate problems, and (2) add support for TLS 1.1 and 1.2, which will keep Eudora working with mail servers that have dropped or will soon drop support for TLS 1.0.

(If you've been using the Stunnel tool specifically to get around this limitation, this updated SSL library will eliminate your need to use that.  It will add support for the missing protocols, while ensuring that everything about your data communication will remain encrypted.)

To install this updated SSL library into your existing Eudora installation:

(Use at your own risk: I am unaffiliated with the Hermes project, but merely a satisfied user trying to make things easier with these instructions.)

1) Download this ZIP file and extract it somewhere:  NOTE: If you downloaded this already but before Oct. 29, 2018, you'll need to download it again now, because the pre-Oct. 29th version wasn't fully functional.

2) Find your Eudora program files folder, via:
   - Eudora's top menu: Help -> About Eudora -> Click on the word "Application" above the "Visit Web Site" button.  This should launch a folder window with your Eudora program in it, which will include the "Eudora.exe" file.

3) Close the About Eudora box, and Quit Eudora

4) Make backup copies of these 4 files that are in your Eudora program files folder: libeay32.dll, QCSSL.dll, rootcerts.p7b, ssleay32.dll

5) Run vcredist.exe that you extracted in step 1.  You might already have a new enough version of this Microsoft library on your system, in which case it will tell you that and will abort.  That's fine: it means you already have the needed Microsoft library and can proceed to the next step.

6) Copy these new 4 files you extracted in step 1 (libeay32.dll, QCSSL.dll, rootcerts.p7b, ssleay32.dll) into your Eudora program files folder. You'll see they're from 2018 instead of 2006.

7) Start Eudora.

8 ) Attempt to retrieve email and send email with your personality/ies.  Most certificate errors should be gone, and sending and receiving should be functional.

9) Something not working?  Then check your incoming and outgoing mail settings:
   (Your main settings are under Tools->Options->"Checking Mail" and "Sending Mail".  They're additionally in each of your Personalities that you use to send and receive mail: Tools->Personalities, and then for each personality, right click, Properties, and look at both tabs "Generic Properties" and "Incoming Mail".)
   In each of those two places, look at the "Secure Sockets when Sending" / "Secure Sockets when Receiving" dropdown.  If you see "If Available, STARTTLS" or "Required, STARTTLS" in any of those places, some mail servers might need you to change those to "Required, Alternate Port".  If you try changing this, make note of the old setting, in case you need to change it back.
   Try retrieving and sending email again.

10) If you're using a server that has support for TLS 1.1 or 1.2, you can verify that Eudora is now using one of these: Go to each of the two places described in step 9 (i.e. in "Options" and/or as any Personality you've successfully connected with since restarting Eudora).  In each, press the button "Last SSL Info".  On the info window that pops up, find the "SSL version field".  You should see "TLSv1.2" or "TLSv1.1", instead of "TLSv1", which will confirm that the new libraries are now using the new protocols with those servers.
--- End quote ---


A brand-new clean Eudora Install is said by Nicholas Edward Werner-Matavka of Hermes on July 25 to work - with this download:
(In other words, the necessary file swaps are already included in this installer.)
Ted Walton and Katrina have discussions of using this method on August 5, especially if you are transferring over from one puter to another.


Free thinking notes

Additional programs I might want to check, for various reasons
Chaos Intellect from Rose City (they had Courier in the old days)
Zimbra - (free, open source??)
Good ol Zoho (Salesinbox) and an Amazon Workplace thingy

For other reasons -
Kiwi for Gmail-Gsuite (also Propeller) - reminds me of Streak and NetHunt)
Spike Shift


ADDED 8:16
Mailspring - pro is $8/mo
Opera Mail
Yahoo Mail (does it have desktop client, probably8 browser only)
iCloud - Apple

BlueMail in beta

collaboration tools like Front and Spike and MailCore might have email embedded.
Other quirkies like KnowMail - Rainloop

Proton Mail (mentioned for security, not a client, has apps, as do Fastmail, etc)
Runbox (I use this for a special Pop-box)
See Slant and G2


why would you use Eudora and the Bat?  I imagine you might be doing different accounts on each.

Eudora was the first email client i ever used, i think i've written about it here.  In the 90s.  Good program.  then I moved to Pegasus.  And then about 10 years or so, mouser convinced me to use the Bat, and ive been on the bat since.

the Bat is good, very reliable.  But they are stingy on features and will likely NEVER fix or address things that are bothering you.  They have made lik all these major versions over the years with almost no noticeable change.

I've also spent some time with emClient, which is a good outlook-type replacement, but I would not replace outlook with it, no real point.  It has some slick features though.  I use it specifically to manage my cardav sync with my phone etc.  why?  because it wont degrade your contact photos.   if you let android or ios or outlook manage ANY contacts, all your high-res contact photos will become potato quality.  even emclient can only do about 600-700 pixels max.  btw, the bat's contact features are SH!T.  like cmon.  i am so worried one day the bat is just going to go extinct and that will be it for the poweruser email experience.

Steven Avery:
TheBat! has some very good features.  One is fundamental to my usage, virtual mailboxes.  This is like the Linkman keyword metaphor. If I have a biz vendor, or a Bible subject, I can make up a virtual box, and all the email related to that subject are there. No matter how good your filtering, you could never achieve the same. Plus you limit many to x number of days, since you want virtual mailboxes to be 10-100 or 200 emails, and not thousands.

Does anybody else have similar, easy to setup virtual folders?  (Virtual mailboxes in TheBat! you usually set up as a follow-up to a search.)


On the other hand, Eudora (with Hermes files) trumps TheBat! in many ways. TheBat! has glitch and annoyance difficulties you rarely (never) see in Eudora.  The Eudora editor is suburb, and its stability is legendary. It is fun to work with.  Pandora is trying to get there too, buts it does not quite have the comfy feel of Eudora. Hermes will be essentially Eudora, very modestly modified, mainly in areas like certificates and TSL encryption.

So I redirect the more important email from TheBat!, to a Runbox POP box, leaving behind legions of forum mail and stuff unidentified.  I pick it up with Eudora POP download.  I can handle the redundancy, as I generally work out of TheBat! but like having the leaner Eudora mirror.

Ironically, TheBat! redirect filter has a glitch, or I do not understand something, and it redirects too much, when I do not want it too, so I just put that question on  TheBat! forum.


TheBat! has a long history, I think they do some improvement, my kvetch is that they do not search out and fix many petty annoyances. I put that concern on their forum where they were discussing what we want in the new v. 9. (I am on 7.)  I would rather have the dozen or so petty annoyances (including memory errors that you have to click away in certain areas) than add new features. Annoyances show up in areas like color groups, row layout types, and duplication of email boxes in folders, and more. None of them really crimp operations, but they will give a cheezy feel to a purist.


Outlook has its own world (and maybe PIM clones like Essential PIM?)-Steven Avery (August 07, 2019, 06:28 AM)
--- End quote ---

EPIM (at least the Pro version) has its own built-in email client, if that's what you mean.  I haven't tried it, but it's there.

Steven Avery:
Essential PIM was recently on Bits du Jour.  Apparently their Windows to iPad/Android integration is good, according to one comment. Even without any email, that sounds interesting   I am trying it out.

Efficient PIM may also have such integrations, but I do not see an IOS app.

Who else?  What works good?


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