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Two classes of membership here?
mouser:
Apology is not needed, but do message me with details of what you think was deleted so I can look into it.
40hz:
Just an addendum regarding Mouser technically having "more say" than others...
While he does (as registered site owner) have "more say" in theory, in practice he leads by example and stays out of things far more than the average member. If he is anything, he is more "first among equals," out of personal preference, than he is your standard web-demigod or father figure. And I have yet to see him "pull rank" on anybody here for any reason. Not even in one instance where I really wished he had. What can I say? We each have our own management style.
Although there is a management hierarchy here (like everywhere else that has two or more people) it's a pretty invisible beast. I think Mouser has founded a new school of management where you manage, not by managing, but by asking people to act politely and become involved. Which is actually a pretty good definition of "friendship" when you think about it.
So if Mouser actually does have "more say" (and he does in fact) it's primarily because everybody here would be more than happy to give the last word to him. Not because we're all gushy-girly hero worshipers. (Many, if not most of us, have far too much ego and "attitude" to ever be real joiners or followers.) So if this community defers to Mouser, it's mainly because he has earned the respect of this community by respecting it himself. That's not an accomplishment too many site owners can claim. We all get treated like intelligent grownups here. And we, in turn (mostly) act that way.
This is hard thing for people coming from other forums to understand sometimes. When I first came here I was surprised by the absence of moderation or official agendas in the forum. I kept waiting to discover what the catch was. Especially since I'm a non-coder hanging out on what is "officially" (insofar as anything around here ever is 'official') a coder site. But I'm very happy to say that at no time has my admittedly negligable degree of knowledge and experience creating programs ever had any effect on the welcome I received, or the responses I've gotten. Yes... It's hard to believe, but these people really are that nice, and this place really is that cool.
We're also not publicly funded. We're supported by members who voluntarily make a contribution. That makes us as privately funded as it gets. And that's an important distinction since it makes DoCo a voluntary association of people. We're here because we want to be here - and are wanted. Even me.
:)
AndyM:
Apology is not needed, but do message me with details of what you think was deleted so I can look into it.
-mouser (November 13, 2012, 12:55 PM)
--- End quote ---
You're a class act mouser, no surprise to anyone who's paid even a little attention.
But this caught me on a cranky day, so one last snipe and then I'll go back in my hole. I note that you've received no reply to your offer to resolve the problem.
40hz:
^give the OP some time and benefit of the doubt to read all the "litanies" that just got posted.
I'm sure it was a simple misunderstanding that will get worked out. I have high hopes clean will become a valued and regular visitor. I also give him/her credit for airing his/her concerns rather than just packing up and going elsewhere. That takes character as well, and it's one more reason why I hope to see him/her stay with us.
app103:
- Some people with many posts here often express very strong opinions and get away with it, they ain't banned and not even reprimanded - so it seems they have the "right" to do so
-clean (November 13, 2012, 11:22 AM)
--- End quote ---
Everyone has a right to their opinions, even strong ones. As long as you express yourself with respect and refrain from making personal attacks, nobody will think badly of you merely for having an opinion. If you do engage in personal attacks, we will let you know you are being out of line, but not by deleting your posts. Deleting and banning is strictly reserved for spammers.
- I jumped in here, some days ago, not because of virtual kvm's, all the less so because of a given offering, but bec of another thread which treated censorship on bits, and MANY people here had been very astonished by this - this was TOO MUCH for me to not speak out, so I related my censorship history with bits, tongue-in-cheek, but the real reason was my having been TOTALLY CENSORED HERE: Some time ago, under another avatar, I had dared to make some posts where I had related bad experiences with software, and instead of triggering other posts on these subjects - perhaps with better experiences than mine -, I got deleted my posts within minutes, AND got my "account" deleted, i.e. no further posting possible, without getting the slightest explanation, which would have perfectly been possible since I had given my real mail account (which is certainly not the case with this current account that will probably be deleted within minutes from my clicking on the "Post" button.
--- End quote ---
If your posts have been deleted and your account banned, then it is most likely you posted something that a moderator thought was spam. If the moderator was mistaken, the simple solution is to contact mouser and give him the info he asked for, and he will look into it.
- At the time, I had been totally surprised by that move, since I had thought to write about subjects of not too remote interest, and since I had not in any way been agressive, cynical or something in this order; on the other hand, this current "censorship at bits" thread here had made me laugh out loud, since people who do heavy censorship themselves shouldn't complain about them being censored elsewhere, right?
--- End quote ---
There is no censorship here. If there was, I would not be here. I would be among the first to leave. Mouser's views on censorship pretty much match my own, which is one of the reasons why I am very comfortable here. I know I can speak my mind freely and there is no risk of having my posts deleted. If it had been otherwise, I wouldn't have invested my time here, making the number of posts that I have over the years.
- You speak about "mouser" - who is "mouser", did he ever gave his name, or is anonymity important to him? I suppose he's the creator of this forum, right? Allow for another question: Why is he considered "God" or similar, here? Has he done exceptional things? Get me right, please, I'm not suggesting he didn't, I'm just in total absence of knowledge, so I'm asking.
--- End quote ---
Mouser is the site founder, it's first software author, site administrator, and the captain at the wheel of the community, steering it through fair weather and the storms. He has earned our trust, our respect, and our love... many times over.
- Then, is he funding this forum? It seems that for the financing of the servers, this forum relies upon public funding, by donations, so there might not be any (more) funding by "mouser", or is there? So here again, I haven't been successful in getting why "mouser" is considered "above it all", instead of this forum being sort of a democratic one.
--- End quote ---
He started this site with his initial investment, out of his own pocket, and funded it himself until it became established and self supporting. Today, we fund it. And by we, I am referring to the members, both seen and unseen, that have considered this site, our software, and our community something worth supporting, that have generously opened their pockets and made a contribution to ensure that we can continue doing what we do here.
- When I see the kind of speak of the "very frequent posters" here, addressing newcomers or "infrequent posters", I see sort of condescension and patronizing and which does NOT seem to be related to the respective content of the respective postings of either side, but simply to a "rule" or something that the former would have the "better rights" as the latter ones - of course, I don't discover this phenomenon in any thread and any exchange of posts, but it appears rather often and much more frequently than being coincidental or unintentionally.
--- End quote ---
This isn't something I have noticed. I am not saying that your observations are incorrect, it's just that I am not aware of it happening. There might be a certain amount of distrust to new members, especially ones that drag up very old threads, and post links to another site as their first post. The community will tend to look at them as possible spammers and might behave a bit less than throwing their arms open and hugging them to death.
- So what's going on here? What is the reason behind "unworthy" contributors here being treated like schoolboys were fifty years ago in civilised countries, especially in view of the fact that, as said, "regular" posters, the "masters" here, are allowed LOTS of "strong opinioning", so there does NOT seem to be a general rule of utmost complacency and attenuation, etc. that'd apply to everyone, far from that?
--- End quote ---
As I stated before, strong opinions are welcome, from anyone and everyone, regardless of how long they have been a member here.
- What is the general idea behind this allowing to freely discuss things for a minority here when for everybody else, it's permanent self-censorship in order to avoid reprimands or even kick-out?
--- End quote ---
There is no fear of being kicked out unless you are a spammer. As far as being reprimanded, it might happen in the case of a heated discussion that mouser will step in and make a post reminding us to be nice to each other and not make personal attacks, or he may send someone a private message to discuss a post one has made that might not be suitable. He will express his opinions and discuss things fairly with you. You may or may not see eye to eye on an issue. But he won't ban you or delete your posts over it.
- This being a discussion forum with lots of participation, it seems to me that the questions I ask here are of some relevance, since for many a potential poster to such a forum, it's a question of adhering to such rules that need some explanation, or to shut up to begin with. There are many countries in this world where people ain't equal, and much worse, but for a forum where you'd instinctively presume equality among the participants, this blatant non-equality in the treatment different classes of participants are granting each other, mutually, seems astonishing and worthwile a little more info about the underlying reasons for all this than you can get by simple observation, hence my request to get some background to all this.
--- End quote ---
You have every right in the world to voice your concerns and ask for clarification if there is something you do not understand. Our community prides itself in being respectful of other's opinions and allowing all participants to have their say. We are all equals here, more equal here than we would be considered elsewhere. We enjoy helping each other and answering each other's questions, including yours.
- Is there a chance go get this, or will the censor act first?
--- End quote ---
There is no censor here.
^give the OP some time and benefit of the doubt to read all the "litanies" that just got posted.
I'm sure it was a simple misunderstanding that will get worked out. I have high hopes clean will become a valued and regular visitor. I also give him/her credit for airing his/her concerns rather than just packing up and going elsewhere. That takes character as well, and it's one more reason why I hope to see him/her stay with us.
-40hz (November 13, 2012, 01:17 PM)
--- End quote ---
I agree. :Thmbsup:
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