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Main Area and Open Discussion => General Software Discussion => Topic started by: tosim on May 28, 2013, 07:49 AM
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I thought I would write this up to maybe help those who are tired of Windoz. I've used Windoz since 1998 and have a small computer repair business, so I am fairly savvy in Windoz. After toying very slightly with various versions of Linux over a few years, about 9 months ago I downloaded the "live CD" of Linux Mint 13-MATE.By booting with the "live CD" you run it from RAM, so nothing affects your regular install(of Windoz). I liked it so much that I've installed it and running(on 3 of my computers) it, dual booting with Win7. I'm using Linux probably 99% of the time, and really prefer it to Windoz. To further inform you-Linux is completely free, as are over 31,000 programs for it. Another thing I particularly like, using the dual boot is that I can go in Windoz partitions using Linux.You don't even need to run an anti-virus program.
Try it, you'll like it!
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You're quite late to the (Linux) party, but welcome :tellme:
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Late, early, or in between - it doesn't matter much once you've arrived. :)
Welcome to the penguin party fellow DoCo member Tosim. Always glad to greet another 'Nix' user! :Thmbsup:
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I prefer Mint11 with the good old Gnome2 desktop manager. Unfortunately, it is not supported anymore so I looked for distributions with Gnome2. I can recommend SolusOS adn Stella(CentOS).
Another good distro based on MATE (and Debian) is Pointlinux.
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I'll be following your footsteps before too long. I'm going to do a dual-boot with Linux as the primary. I've still got a lot of investigating to do before I figure out which flavor of Linux that I want. Either way, I'm kind of excited about it...
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tosim, yes, it is fun
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You don't even need to run an anti-virus program.
-tosim
Hm-m-m. That was Apple's claim for years. Then they got big enough, in terms of users, market percentage, to be interesting.
No OS is malware-proof if it is interconnected or allows 3rd-party access.
(FWIW, been multi-booting since early [pre-commercial] Red Hat.)
Sorry to harp, but I keep seeing folk mention things that cannot be corrupted. Ain't none. What Man can devise, Man can destroy: the only variable is time-frame.
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One more Distro with Gnome 2:
http://www.gnewsense.org/
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Why not BSD?
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Also, while we're at it: Why exactly are Linsux users too dumb/lazy to spell "Windows" correctly? Can't Linux stand out without having superior operating systems bashed verbally?
You don't even need to run an anti-virus program.-tosim
Good luck.
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I too am starting to use Linux more and more.
Before, I happens to use it only occasionaly, mostly as part of some recovery procedure involving a live Linux distro of sort, or to try some cross compilation.
Then in recent times I started toying with a Raspberry Pi and his Raspbian first, and then I built a new home server with Ubuntu 12.04 -I thought it would be less confusing to remain around something Debian based while I was learing how to move around.
I have to say it's a very pleasant experience. Finding doucumentation about anything is very easy. In near no time I had a mirrored Zpool setup, Samba shares, media server for the Squeezebox, the works.
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^One thing that tends to surprise most regular Linux users is how much their hands feel tied when they need to go back to Windows in order to do something. Like use a program you can't get to run under Linux. That, and just how inelegant and rigid the whole Windows environment starts to feel once you've experienced something else to compare it to.
I'm amazed how many people (especially the real "power-users") haven't gotten on board with Linux yet.
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I'm amazed how many people (especially the real "power-users") haven't gotten on board with Linux yet.
-40hz
Prolly 'cause the power users have to do things that can't be done in Linux distros - I have to revert to Win in order to use Visio, for instance - at least, not yet. Wine does a fair country job of running a number of Win progs, but some of 'em just don't function well or completely under Wine. If your job involves Win-centric corporate activity, sometimes Win is the only option. And a lot of IT sections won't allow dual boot or virtual Win 'cause they don't have a clue how to deal with Linux, thus their first trouble-shooting determination - read accusation - is that it's the OS.
When I was working at MCI, I had Red Hat on a laptop that I carried into work - and used - on a daily basis. As soon as IT discovered that (about three (3) months later) I was accused of corrupting their network. Actually, it was a toss-up 'tween me and another guy who was doing the same thing with OS/2. Turned out the cause was a failed/incomplete server upgrade, but they didn't look that far, just pointed a finger and stopped checking.
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Also, while we're at it: Why exactly are Linsux users too dumb/lazy to spell "Windows" correctly? Can't Linux stand out without having superior operating systems bashed verbally?-Tuxman
Freudian slip, perhaps?
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Also, while we're at it: Why exactly are Linsux users too dumb/lazy to spell "Windows" correctly? Can't Linux stand out without having superior operating systems bashed verbally?-Tuxman
Freudian slip, perhaps? -skwire
Methinks OS Envy. :P
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Also, while we're at it: Why exactly are Linsux users too dumb/lazy to spell "Windows" correctly? Can't Linux stand out without having superior operating systems bashed verbally?-Tuxman
Freudian slip, perhaps? -skwire
Methinks OS Envy. :P
-Tinman57
No, just some VCIW snarkiness. Apparently it still annoys some BSD fans that they're using it - and nobody is impressed - or even cares that they do. ;D
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I am not annoyed. I pity the fools. :)
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I am not annoyed. I pity the fools. :)
-Tuxman
That's insulting. That I/we do not use your OS of choice does not make us fools. We are using whatever OS that allows us to get our respective jobs done!. That you do not care for our respective OSes does not give you the right to denigrate us, nor to denigrate an OS that we may have no choice but to use. To quote an old sci-fi phrase, Curb thy tongue, impious fish.
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I am not annoyed. I pity the fools. :)
-Tuxman
That's insulting. That I/we do not use your OS of choice does not make us fools. We are using whatever OS that allows us to get our respective jobs done!. That you do not care for our respective OSes does not give you the right to denigrate us, nor to denigrate an OS that we may have no choice but to use. To quote an old sci-fi phrase, Curb thy tongue, impious fish.
-barney
There are over 100 things I cannot get done in Linux, not the least of which is some coding snacks here.
I'd use Linux ... wait for it ... if it just was as easy as Windows. I got a horrible mood when I just could not update a few things because of bad libraries or something...
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I got a horrible mood when I just could not update a few things because of bad libraries or something...
-TaoPhoenix
Just out of personal curiosity, which distro were you using? What were the things that wouldn't update? And how long ago was it that you ran into that?
:)
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That's insulting.
-barney
PDFTT ;) 8)
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PDFTT ;) 8)
-40hz
Sorry. Sometimes my fingers get ahead of good sense :-\ :P.
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1 year 6 months and counting, no firewall and anti-virus needed so far on ubuntu. I am using few windows apps via Crossover (got it from the last novembers giveaway. Tired of linux is not ready for desktop rants, tbh. If you are using computer mostly for browser and few stuff here and there, then I don't think switching to linux ( or mac) is that hard.
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no firewall and anti-virus needed so far on ubuntu.
-mahesh2k
FWIW there may not be that much malware targeting Linux machines to date (compared to Windows) - but that will change once Linux becomes a target with a high enough value for the blackhats to dedicate sufficient resources to hacking.
I still use an antivirus scanner on every machine I own. Windows machines because they need one. Linux and BSD machines (especially servers) because I don't want to spread infected Windows files that may be stored on them by other machines - even if the Nix boxes themselves won't be directly affected by it.
There's also all those cross-platform Java programs we can worry about if we ever feel left out... ;D
8)
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I got a horrible mood when I just could not update a few things because of bad libraries or something...
-TaoPhoenix
Just out of personal curiosity, which distro were you using? What were the things that wouldn't update? And how long ago was it that you ran into that?
:)
-40hz
Two different versions of uBuntu messed up bad on me.
The last time when I gave up was when my test box very specifically didn't like one of the then-new versions. It was something like 4-10 was fine and 10-10 hosed my box so bad it wouldn't boot the screen driver. A Sub-Sub-Distro fixed that, but about that point I just began to lose interest in it all.
A couple years earlier Dapper Drake (X-06?) created its own problems and ran itself into the ground on a Dell box. Then in general I just tried to update some stuff A' La Windows and got into DLL Hell. I'm gonna get a bit aggressive here and say no it's not okay for that to be "way back when", ... when Windows 2000 and its pony child Windows XP were *five years earlier* and are still the measuring sticks of Windows, *five* versions later. So no, I won't put up with *twelve* versions of Ubuntu, half of which are reported to cause problems per the forums and two of which caused severe problems for me personally.
Not insignificantly, I have a few Snacks from here, and they ... wait for it ... run on Windows. Plus a ton of other stuff that's Windows Only.
So I get the philosophy, I really do, but MS won. They played the long game and held on tight, and they won.
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^Not an issue for me. Whatever works best for the user I always say. If Windows does the trick, go for it.
Note: don't read too much into Ubuntu's large number of versions. It was mostly a marketing move to differentiate themselves from Debian's glacial release schedule. A new version of Debian feels more like a second coming than an update.
:Thmbsup:
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^Not an issue for me. Whatever works best for the user I always say. If Windows does the trick, go for it.
Note: don't read too much into Ubuntu's large number of versions. It was mostly a marketing move to differentiate themselves from Debian's glacial release schedule. A new version of Debian feels more like a second coming than an update.
:Thmbsup: -40hz
Didn't Ubuntu just come out with some kind of new updater that took care of all the old issues?
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I really like CrunchBang. But that's me saying it after trying it out on my netbook a couple of years ago and then again just using it in a VM for about half an hour the other day.
I've never used Linux on a daily, real world, get stuff done basis. But I like CrunchBang, and I think I'd try that one if I were going to attempt moving to Linux on a more serious/permanent basis.
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@Deo - CrunchBang is my favorite go-to distro for laptops. Works very well with lower powered boxes too. Glad you found it. The interface is a little different if you're used to more traditional window managers like MSWindows or Gnome or KDE. But in may respects it's more flexible and configurable than most if you put a little time into learning about OpenBox and how to configure it.
It's also based on pure Debian so you can sidestep and not indirectly support Ubuntu's lack of etiquette in the FOSS community.
Looks pretty cool too IMHO. I always have somebody ask me what I'm using if I'm doing something on a CB laptop when I'm in a coffee shop, library or similar place. 8)
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@Deo - CrunchBang is my favorite go-to distro for laptops. Works very well with lower powered boxes too. Glad you found it. The interface is a little different if you're used to more traditional window managers like MSWindows or Gnome or KDE. But in may respects it's more flexible and configurable than most if you put a little time into learning about OpenBox and how to configure it.
It's also based on pure Debian so you can sidestep and not indirectly support Ubuntu's lack of etiquette in the FOSS community.
Looks pretty cool too IMHO. I always have somebody ask me what I'm using if I'm doing something on a CB laptop when I'm in a coffee shop, library or similar place. 8)-40hz
I've never heard of that before. I've not got the time to go through their forum/site at the moment, can it be run as a live CD/USB do you know?
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can it be run as a live CD/USB do you know?
-pilgrim
It can. I have a copy on USB which I take with me everywhere "just in case." :Thmbsup:
(Note: I'm a big fan of live CDs and portable apps.) :)
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Thanks, I'll have a closer look when I've got the time.
For some reason the live CD's I've already got have refused to run on my new PC, they boot OK and then throw up file system errors.
The drive is OK because amongst other things I've run backup and partition software with it, and the live CD's still run on my old PC.
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For some reason the live CD's I've already got have refused to run on my new PC, they boot OK and then throw up file system errors.
-pilgrim
Could be either a bad download or a problem with the drive that was used to burn the disks.
Anytime you download a very large file there's always the chance of some corruption Happens a lot with some slower DSL services where there's a significant number of lags and timeout/resumes during a download - which your DL manager usually won't tell you about.
99% of the time there's a file error it's because the ISO download got corrupted. First thing to do following a download is to verify the MD5 or SHA-1 checksum. If there's a mismatch, the download is corrupted and you'll have to download it again.
If you don't have a utility to verify checksums, I'd recommend grabbing a copy of Colony West Software's freebie digestIT (http://www.colonywest.us/digestit/).
If the checksum is ok, then there might be an alignment issue with the burning drive. Usually the problem occurs with higher R/W settings. So when in doubt, the old trick is to try burning the CD at a lower speed like 8X or 16X. Virtually any drive can read any disk duped at those speeds.
If you don't want to chance wasting a disk, you can always load a live distro image onto a bootable USB key and play with that. It's faster than loading from CD anyway.
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One of the CD's is a genuine one that came with The Official Ubuntu Book (http://www.amazon.com/Official-Ubuntu-Book-Benjamin-Mako/dp/0132435942).
The other was a download and I should still have the ISO itself which I can check, although as I said they both work on my old PC.
I learned about burning speeds the hard way although it's not always the answer, when I rebuilt my old PC a slipstreamed XP-SP3 CD that I had used before was rejected.
As my genuine ones are both SP2 I had to use one of them and then install the service pack, fortunately I always keep downloaded installers except for normal MS updates.
I get a File Hashes tab under Properties on all my computers: CRC32, MD2, MD4, MD5, SHA-1, SHA-256, SHA-512. There's 7 more that are hidden.
It also allows me to compare files.
I have a number of both CD and DVD RW discs, anything I am not sure about I put on one of those first.
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^Out of curiosity - was your new machine preloaded with Windows and UEFI/Secure Boot enabled?
Because if it is, it won't boot Linux (or any other non-Windows OS) off a CD until some changes get made in the hardware setup to allow it.
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Re: [#31 pilgrim] live CD
For me, 'live' CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-R work with Puppy and Mint_12-32 bit, Mint_14-32 bit,
but do not consistently allow app additions. 'Live' DVD-RW works perfectly for Puppy
and Mint_12-32 bit and 14-64 bit but not 15-64 bit. USB drives work well for Puppy_5.4.3
and Mint and allow package/application additions. [dedicated Linux PC, AMD-64 bit, two
internal DVD drives failed to work but an external usb 'Buffalo' DVD drive works well.]
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^Out of curiosity - was your new machine preloaded with Windows and UEFI/Secure Boot enabled?
Because if it is, it won't boot Linux (or any other non-Windows OS) off a CD until some changes get made in the hardware setup to allow it.-40hz
The new PC is all my own work so it wasn't preloaded with anything.
I thought that Secure Boot was only related to Windows 8 and that it was OS based.
Having read your post I have been looking into it. The first place I looked was the MB manual (I'm not on the PC at the moment), it does not mention it. Then I found a thread on the Windows 8 forums about disabling UEFI and one of the MB's mentioned is the same make but a different model to mine, having looked at the images it is probably the same BIOS.
Not knowing any better I strongly suspect that I have it enabled so when I get back to the PC I'll have a look.
sword,
I had an old copy of Puppy I'll have to see if I can find it.
EDIT:
I just checked the PC's BIOS and found no reference to Secure Boot or UEFI.
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^ I'm glad sword brought up the point about the media type. I too have had weird problems with live CDs burned to RW media with certain machines. Never ran into it with standard non-R/W media however.
Possibly it's just the optical drive in your new machine that's being fussy?
That might be something worth looking into - or try the installation from a USB key assuming you're sure the image you downloaded is good.
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Those that I have been trying are all CD-R, I only use the RW when I am making sure that I want to make a permanent copy.
I need to go through the files on my old PC and its external drive to find the ISO's or I might simply download the latest versions as all mine are several years out of date.
Looking around I found several cases, especially with Ubuntu, where people were complaining of issues with specific versions when previous ones had worked.
I'm not sure that this is a Linux versus Windows problem as a rescue CD that I tested booted successfully and that is Linux based.
When I get any further I'll post again.
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First, welcome Tosim, to Linux. You're going to love it. Made the switch myself almost 7 years ago(!) and have blissfully side-stepped all the weeping and gnashing of teeth that a life lived among Microsoft products brings. Every once in a while I'll visit that dinosaur site called ZDNet and see all the thunder and fury guys like Ed Bott scream while trying to [still] accept what Microsoft gives them before the next VP who was in charge of the update dashes for the exit door (Sinofsky).
My advice follows that of 40hz. And for those still on the fence, I suggest you simply load distros onto your old machine and use it for your daily tasks. Immerse yourself. And no, don't expect it to be a gaming machine for your Windows games or run Photoshop. But now that Photoshop is a cloud subscription (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud.html), you no longer can use that excuse.
I use openSUSE (http://www.opensuse.org/) because it's very liberal when it comes to software choice and it's uber-stable. Try Mint if your machine can handle it and you'll see all the endless things a Linux distro can really do. Good luck.
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Whatever works best for the user I always say.
-40hz
This, I can get on board with. The OS is a tool, not a religion. :)
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I use openSUSE (http://www.opensuse.org/) because it's very liberal when it comes to software choice and it's uber-stable.
-zridling
Another superb choice. :Thmbsup: I still have earlier versions that I paid money to buy disk sets for back when it was still available in retail computer stores - back when there still were retail computer stores and not just PC sections in big box outlets.
The real "old guard" distros (Slack and Debian) are exceptionally stable and pretty well worked out. You may lose a few of the fancier out-of-box bells & whistles (until you install them yourself :)) by not going with some of the newer releases like Mint or Mageia. But that shouldn't stop you.
Check out the Distrowatch (http://distrowatch.com) website for a fairly comprehensive list of what's currently available.
:Thmbsup:
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Whatever works best for the user I always say.
-40hz
This, I can get on board with. The OS is a tool, not a religion. :)
-wraith808
Seriously! :Thmbsup:
What is the BFD about which brand of computer or software you use? Who cares?
You share what you know about the "good stuff," offer help and suggestions when you can, and move on your merry way.
I don't get evangelism. But that's probably because I was once very interested in religious belief systems and put a fair amount of study into learning as much as I could starting with Albigencian and ending somewhere around Zoroasterianism. Mostly because I didn't get it. At all.
Still don't really.
Feel much the same way about software, makes of cars, and sports teams.
It's all a big "so what?" to me. ;D
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When using Linux don't you feel like crippled deep down a dungeon? is Linux a good platform to allow a software developer make a living ? Also I didn't find any desktop manager which allowed searching within a combobox ;D
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When using Linux don't you feel like crippled deep down a dungeon?-kilele
Not for a minute. As the matter of a fact, lately I feel like I'm wearing handcuffs every time I need to work within Windows. :)
is Linux a good platform to allow a software developer make a living ?
Redhat, Suse, Canonical, HP, IBM. Hollywood and a bunch of other people who write software seem to think so. Even Steam feels there's a future for paid games - and they're doing ok with it last I heard. 8)
Also I didn't find any desktop manager which allowed searching within a combobox ;D
Not quite sure what you mean by "searching within a combobox"...but ok. Maybe you can elaborate a bit more on that one? Searching isn't something a desktop manager would do. Do you mean doing a file search within a GUI interface like so:
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
That would be a function more likely found in a file manager. 8)
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@40hz
I was kidding but I feel a bit that way knowing the entire possibilities that can be done in Windows. Actually I plan to make an installation of SolusOS on some old pcs.
You mentioned a few companies that have a business model based on technical support for their distributions, this is something that could work for small stores providing service for Mint equipped machines. I was referring more to freelance and software developers, aside from the small market it seems that many developers are not appealed by inconsistencies on packages among different distributions regarding software and hardware stability.
I was not able to find the proper way to hit a letter or two and make the selection jump to the 1st item starting with those letters.