Home | Blog | Software | Reviews and Features | Forum | Help | Donate | About us
topbanner_forum
  *

avatar image

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
  • December 07, 2016, 09:57:49 PM
  • Proudly celebrating 10 years online.
  • Donate now to become a lifetime supporting member of the site and get a non-expiring license key for all of our programs.
  • donate

Author Topic: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet  (Read 3915 times)

Edvard

  • Coding Snacks Author
  • Charter Honorary Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,888
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« on: July 27, 2014, 02:42:11 AM »
I admit, this idea struck me as odd at best and 'pie-in-the-sky' at worst, but the basic gist is to create a network intended to replace the internet that is completely decentralized, paid for by users' spare hard drive space, and is completely encrypted.  This goes beyond darknets and meshnets, and... well... read the FAQs, check out the article, watch the video, decide for yourself.

Quote
The Server Needs To Die To Save The Internet

“What we’re building is software that connects together all the computers on the network to form — think of it as one giant computer, or effectively one giant cyber brain. So it really connects together all the nodes on the network and allows them to effectively become a very large datacenter, without of course the datacenter,” explains Lambert. “It’s a network infrastructure that will replace datacenters — and hopefully large technology companies.”

That’s right. This startup wants to reconfigure the current Internet hierarchy too — pulling the power and centre of gravity away from the owners of the biggest datacenters and platforms, and putting it back in the hands of individual users.



from CodeProject News

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 07:16:01 AM »
Reminds me a little of FidoNet's concept. Which makes it a step in the right direction in my book.

Of course, it'll only be as secure as it's encryption methodology. And we know what we're up against with that 'poisoned well' thanks to Snowden spilling the beans. And as long as the powers that be are logging everything it's not exactly what you'd call fully stealthed. But it will make the task of those opposed to local control and personal privacy that much more difficult.

Of course there's nothing to stop MaidSafe from being compromised (local nodes infected with a government spybot for example) or honeypotted since there will be sloppy devs and node owners who don't understand or can't be bothered to RTFM. Less an issue while it's mostly übergeek. But once the masses pile on, it's a problem that will eventually surface.

Still, anything effort on this front is better than nothing. And who knows? Maybe that famous old story about Nasrudin and how "the horse will talk" just might come true here.

choice.jpgMaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet

Fingers crossed! 8) :Thmbsup:
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 07:31:50 AM by 40hz »

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2014, 10:15:48 AM »
Funny... I was actually going to post about Maidsafe! :)

This goes beyond darknets and meshnets,

Not really... Maidsafe isn't Hyperboria (CJDNS). I think you're mixing some of this up a bit.

Just to clarify:

DARKNET: What this is varies, but ultimately boils down to using existing infrastructure. That infrastructure is used with encryption protocols to obfuscate identity or otherwise anonymise users. This is often over Tor, but not always.

MESHNET: This is more along the lines of Hyperboria or similar technologies. It's an infrastructure for communications. See here: http://www.reddit.com/r/hyperboria/

Maidsafe can use a meshnet or the normal Internet. The network infrastructure isn't really an issue (IIRC).

So, for example...

You have a communications infrastructure, like Hyerboria/CJDNS, and run a Darknet service over top of that, like Tor or I2P, then store data anonymously anonymously (doubled - once for the Darkent service, then again for Maidsafe) using Maidsafe.

Maidsafe adds in a new aspect to the equation that isn't Darknet (Tor/I2P), and isn't MeshNet (CJDNS), but is something entirely new that fits right on top of all that other wonderfully crypto-anarchical goodness! ;D 8)

I've been following it off and on for a while. I'm still trying to figure out some of it, but I think that I really just need to read the API documentation.

For a badass example of Maidsafe:



You can see file storage, file sharing, and real time chat there. :O Yeah... bad. ass.

The new "Hello World!" application should be amended to "Hello World! Welcome to crypto-anarchy!" Because that's what the new generations (plural) of applications will be.

Crypto-anarchy is winning, and will win. The effort to encrypt compared to the effort to decrypt without keys is disproportionate in many, many orders of magnitude.

I came across a gambling site that was provably fair. I saw that the encryption was relatively weak and decided to see if I could game the site. I crunched the numbers. Nope. Not doable. I know how to crack the cryptography on that site, but, it simply cannot be done sanely. It would cost far too much.

People would do well to look into crypto-anarchy and find out what it is and what it means. I'll skip that as it is a topic best left to the Basement.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2014, 10:18:07 AM »
Still, anything effort on this front is better than nothing.

Do I detect a hint of hope and optimism? 8)

Fingers crossed! 8) :Thmbsup:

You and me both! ;)
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2014, 12:10:17 PM »
Still, anything effort on this front is better than nothing.

Do I detect a hint of hope and optimism? 8)

Fingers crossed! 8) :Thmbsup:

You and me both! ;)

LOL! I'm eternally optimistic. Wouldn't be alive or still have a sense of humor if I didn't.  ;D

That said (you just  knew this was coming... ;)


For a badass example of Maidsafe:
.
.
.
You can see file storage, file sharing, and real time chat there. :O Yeah... bad. ass.

Less "bad ass" to my eyes than it is more the ever predictable kiddie bad-boy behavior you tend to see with this sort of thing. Oh well...let the food court and coffee shop 'revolutionaries' have their fun I suppose.

Crypto-anarchy is winning, and will win.

Um...not to be a downer, but I think that's a little premature. Crypto-anarchy (as a movement) has yet to fight it's first real battle, let alone see hope for a lasting victory. Right now, it's little more than a minor annoyance to the powers that be, and not much more than an RPG for most of those who style themselves crypto-anarchists.

But not to fear. It will start getting seriously interesting soon enough. :tellme:

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,141
  • Slartibartfarst
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2014, 07:31:59 PM »
@Edvard: Many thanks for posting this. I had not been aware of it before:
I admit, this idea struck me as odd at best and 'pie-in-the-sky' at worst, but the basic gist is to create a network intended to replace the internet that is completely decentralized, paid for by users' spare hard drive space, and is completely encrypted.  This goes beyond darknets and meshnets, and... well... read the FAQs, check out the article, watch the video, decide for yourself.
Quote
The Server Needs To Die To Save The Internet
“What we’re building is software that connects together all the computers on the network to form — think of it as one giant computer, or effectively one giant cyber brain. So it really connects together all the nodes on the network and allows them to effectively become a very large datacenter, without of course the datacenter,” explains Lambert. “It’s a network infrastructure that will replace datacenters — and hopefully large technology companies.”
That’s right. This startup wants to reconfigure the current Internet hierarchy too — pulling the power and centre of gravity away from the owners of the biggest datacenters and platforms, and putting it back in the hands of individual users.

from CodeProject News

Just for posterity and reference, these are possibly relevant links in DCF:

The post about MaidSafe is very heartening news to me. I can't believe that I hadn't heard of it till now - the MaidSafe blog appears to go back to April 2014 and makes reference to some Google+ discussions about it before then (though I would probably have missed those anyway as I prefer to avoid g+).
The MaidSafe news at least gives another possible reason for DigitalLifeboat's somewhat abrupt cessation in July 2013 (or thereabouts) - another possible reason was BitTorrentSync, refer also:

However, I am skeptical, not so much about MaidSafe per se (which appears to be a slam-dunk that has been operationally tested/proven, in prototype mode, at least), but about the Establishment's potential for aborting/euthanising MaidSafe through "necessary" legislation under (say) the "Prevention of Terrorism Act", or something, simply because it offers some potential threats to the Establishment on several fronts, including:
  • Crypto-currency: The coupling of MaidSafe with crypto-currencies (including mastercoin and bitcoin, and the MaidSafe proprietary Perpetual Coin + safecoin).

  • Disruptive technology - Commercial: The original Web/Internet as probably envisaged by Vint Cerf, would be a very different creature to what we seem to have today, which has become a fiercely capitalist profit/money-making scheme for those corporations that have been on the leading edge of using the Internet as a mass-marketing demographic data collection and vending system. Google's huge market dominance in this area could be a major victim of this disruptive technology, as it could sever the value-chain that provides their lifeblood and which drives their business model. As we are aware, there would seem to be a strong working relationship and interdependency between US Government/NSA/Google.

  • Disruptive technology - State: The US and allied governments have apparently already invested many billions of dollars on developing internet surveillance systems (revelations re NSA/SS, SnowdenGate refer), all in the name of "National Security". MaidSafe could seem to have the potential to defeat a greater part of that.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 07:47:26 PM by IainB, Reason: Minor correction. »

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2014, 08:09:34 PM »

For a badass example of Maidsafe:
.
.
.
You can see file storage, file sharing, and real time chat there. :O Yeah... bad. ass.

Less "bad ass" to my eyes than it is more the ever predictable kiddie bad-boy behavior you tend to see with this sort of thing. Oh well...let the food court and coffee shop 'revolutionaries' have their fun I suppose.


Aaaannd... cue the pessimism! 40hz is back~! ;D

Given it's not in widespread use yet, so any victory cries are premature...

But if it does go mainstream, it will again revolutionise how modern communications work. Decentralised communications? That's a big deal.


Crypto-anarchy is winning, and will win.

Um...not to be a downer, but I think that's a little premature. Crypto-anarchy (as a movement) has yet to fight it's first real battle, let alone see hope for a lasting victory. Right now, it's little more than a minor annoyance to the powers that be, and not much more than an RPG for most of those who style themselves crypto-anarchists.

But not to fear. It will start getting seriously interesting soon enough. :tellme:

Ok, yes - it is premature. But it's getting there.

Bittorrent revolutionised file sharing.

Bitcoin is revolutionising currency (and finance and contracts in general).

Maidsafe could revolutionise file storage, file sharing, and modern communications.

Code: Perl [Select]
  1. #!/bin/perl -sp0777i<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<j]dsj
  2. $/=unpack('H*',$_);$_=`echo 16dio\U$k"SK$/SM$n\EsN0p[lN*1
  3. lK[d2%Sa2/d0$^Ixp"|dc`;s/\W//g;$_=pack('H*',/((..)*)$/)

This is an information war.
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2014, 09:10:57 PM »
This is an information war.

It's not really 'war' until your opposition decides to take up arms and seriously mobilize. And that part hasn't happened yet. Except maybe to Julian Assange and Kim Dotcom.

For the most part they're still trying to handle things quietly on the "law & order" front.

If 'war' does come to the cyber frontier, you'll know. And in no uncertain terms.




40hz

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2007
  • **
  • Posts: 11,768
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2014, 09:26:17 PM »
Decentralised communications? That's a big deal.

Agree. Tom Jennings's Fidonet  :-* had something very similar to that back (somewhat ironically) in 1984.

(Note: Episode 4 of BBS: The Documentary is about Fidonet. You can watch it here.) :)

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2014, 09:52:29 PM »
The post about MaidSafe is very heartening news to me.

It is very good news! :)

However, I am skeptical, not so much about MaidSafe per se (which appears to be a slam-dunk that has been operationally tested/proven, in prototype mode, at least), but about the Establishment's potential for aborting/euthanising MaidSafe through "necessary" legislation under (say) the "Prevention of Terrorism Act", or something, simply because it offers some potential threats to the Establishment on several fronts, including:

Which is what 40hz has been saying for a long time.

Sic semper tyrannis.

I suppose that's the end game in that scenario.


  • Crypto-currency: The coupling of MaidSafe with crypto-currencies (including mastercoin and bitcoin, and the MaidSafe proprietary Perpetual Coin + safecoin).

  • Disruptive technology - Commercial: The original Web/Internet as probably envisaged by Vint Cerf, would be a very different creature to what we seem to have today, which has become a fiercely capitalist profit/money-making scheme for those corporations that have been on the leading edge of using the Internet as a mass-marketing demographic data collection and vending system. Google's huge market dominance in this area could be a major victim of this disruptive technology, as it could sever the value-chain that provides their lifeblood and which drives their business model. As we are aware, there would seem to be a strong working relationship and interdependency between US Government/NSA/Google.

  • Disruptive technology - State: The US and allied governments have apparently already invested many billions of dollars on developing internet surveillance systems (revelations re NSA/SS, SnowdenGate refer), all in the name of "National Security". MaidSafe could seem to have the potential to defeat a greater part of that.

The potential for disruption is far reaching. Heck, it could take the state back 100 years in terms of its ability to spy on people. :)

The rise & fall of Big Data?

When you think about it, these are some pretty wild times we live in!
Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2014, 10:07:12 PM »
If 'war' does come to the cyber frontier, you'll know. And in no uncertain terms.

*cough* NSA *cough* DHS *cough* DARPA (have a look at the colour scheme at the top... very clever metaphor) *cough* DEPS *cough* BCND *cough* TechDirt *cough* TorrentFreak *cough* EFF *cough* Falkvinge *cough* The Pirate Party *cough* Chris Paget & RFID *cough*  ;)

Man... That's totally the beginning to Sweet Leaf! 8)

Agree. Tom Jennings's Fidonet  :-* had something very similar to that back (somewhat ironically) in 1984.

Some things are just ahead of their time. It happens.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker

IainB

  • Supporting Member
  • Joined in 2008
  • **
  • Posts: 6,141
  • Slartibartfarst
    • View Profile
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2014, 07:55:00 AM »
...have a look at the colour scheme at the top... very clever metaphor...
What - you mean the way the colour scheme shifts from one side of the page to the other through the 7 colours of the rainbow against a black background? As in "SPECTRUM" of electromagnetic radiation? How is that clever? Maybe I am missing something. The screws have been coming loose for years...

EDIT: I just listened to Black Sabbath's "Sweet Leaf" (thanks for providing the link), and I think I see what you mean about that, at least. I never really liked their music so never paid it much attention and would just "tune out" on them if I heard it. So I don't recall hearing that one before, but I feel sure I must have at one time or another - probably on replays of the BBC's "The Old Grey Whistle Test".
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 08:10:32 AM by IainB »

Renegade

  • Charter Member
  • Joined in 2005
  • ***
  • Posts: 13,220
  • Tell me something you don't know...
    • View Profile
    • Renegade Minds
    • Donate to Member
Re: MaidSafe - The new decentralized Internet
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2014, 08:27:53 AM »
...have a look at the colour scheme at the top... very clever metaphor...
What - you mean the way the colour scheme shifts from one side of the page to the other through the 7 colours of the rainbow against a black background? As in "SPECTRUM" of electromagnetic radiation? How is that clever? Maybe I am missing something. The screws have been coming loose for years...

The US military often refers to "full spectrum domination". DARPA lists their work "across the full spectrum". Everything from, well, as they have it:
 
Quote
AEO - Technology, Adaptability & Transfer
BTO - Biology, Technology & Complexity
DSO - Discovery, Modeling, Design & Assembly
I2O - Information, Innovation & Cyber
MTO - Electronics, Photonics & MEMS
STO - Networks, Cost Leverage & Adaptability
TTO - Weapons, Platforms & Space

It's a full spectrum for dominance.

Slow Down Music - Where I commit thought crimes...

Freedom is the right to be wrong, not the right to do wrong. - John Diefenbaker