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I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

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Dormouse:
I'd say the thread is very much on the topics of "going primitive with discursion into zettelkasten".
-tomos (July 19, 2020, 04:59 PM)
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Certainly feels like that to me.
What I find amazing is that,  having gone through all the issues, a whole new class of software springs up to support and manage the files.

I can understand for some it might be frustrating that the thread isn't instantly useful. Not factual or reference friendly like an encyclopedia or text book; no index. More novel than fact, and not even a tightly plotted modern novel but an old style ramble with picaresque tendencies. Pickwick or Quixote rather than Da Vinci Code. But it's a journey of discovery; has been, still is.

Dormouse:
It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.
-wraith808 (July 19, 2020, 04:30 PM)
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I just see them as part of the conversation. Has been the first mention of some interesting sites and software.

Dormouse:
It has struck me that the concept of Roam is very tied into atomic notes and folgezettel. That's why bullets, and links to bullets, and an outliner structure to provide the ancestry.

But,  afaics from reading about Roaman practices, it doesn't work like that in real life. It appears to encourage an endless spew of words. Atomic bullets yes, multiple links all over, but so many they make up an amorphous blob that even a graph can't structure.

What will interest me is whether the ultra fans are still as keen in five years. It's good to be productive,  but will they be able to find products when they look back?

Dormouse:
And also, again afaics, there's a horde of people, probably mostly students, who believe they are building their own zettelkasten when they are doing nothing that Luhmann would recognise as related to his own system. Partly because technology has led them astray, partly because they misunderstand the system itself (I suspect Ahrens has a lot to answer for here), partly because their needs are quite different to those Luhmann was addressing, and substantially because the system cannot stretch beyond its original purpose to adapt to different circumstances without entropy overwhelming its functionality.

We've already covered the need to retain value from the reading that does not currently deserve extra spent writing a note.
Many people have to cope with making notes and reading texts on subjects they do not choose for themselves.
They may have no reasonable expectation of their notes being part of a publication of any sort. (And afaics many are simply motivated by the need to remember what they are told they need to know.)
All these may still benefit from linking and are all capable of being developed in the future. But they may not need perfect writing or a strong reworking focus.

So, to me, that makes a boundary around the zettelkasten separating it from such concerns. Possibly a completely different system to manage them (Luhmann's own approach) or possibly a very similar system differentiated only by concept and daily practice. Assuming someone actually wants a zettelkasten.

Further,  there is no gain from trying to apply zettly methods to all notes and documents.

wraith808:
It's very easy to note them, so I'd be surprised if you missed them.
-wraith808 (July 19, 2020, 04:30 PM)
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I just see them as part of the conversation. Has been the first mention of some interesting sites and software.
-Dormouse (July 20, 2020, 07:09 PM)
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I guess a difference in perception.  Seems there are conversations around some, but not most.  But no matter; it was just idle musings after the commentary by another after the proliferation of links on some of the latter pages at the time.

I'm currently merging Agile concepts with my Zettel.  It is a very good concept for maintaining a backlog and getting things done, and the two have melded nicely.

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