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I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

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Dormouse:
It is called Wavemaker-sphere (April 28, 2020, 10:32 PM)
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Thanks. I hadn't heard of this one. Cross-platform, so very interesting to me.

I don't like web apps generally, but a local browser extension with the ability to sync to Drive is probably as good as they will ever suit me.
I will have to look at it on Windows - which appears to be what it is most designed around - but did check it out briefly on Android. Snowflake, Cat etc as templates for the Writer is good and I assume/hope you can design your own. I tried the mindmap, but couldn't find a way to move the boxes. Seemed like a nice grid implementation, though would use a lot of space; ideally it would tie in with the Writer sections, but it didn't seem to do that. I didn't try the Writer.
I had some difficulty in getting it to start and never succeeded on my phone.

Will comment further when I've checked the Windows version.

Dormouse:
It seems like one should be able to more easily "play" with the cards-sphere (April 29, 2020, 06:27 PM)
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I agree.

Luhmann could obviously do it with his physical cards, but I don't think the digital versions encourage it even though I personally feel it's that playing that is the core to its effectiveness. It is something that Trello facilitates.

Dormouse:
Will comment further when I've checked the Windows version.-Dormouse (April 30, 2020, 07:47 PM)
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Looks as if a new, substantially revised, version of Wavemaker should be out soon, maybe June. So I'll defer any detailed look until then. Scrivener 3 should surely be out by then too.
Developer mentioned Trello & Kanban as some of his inspirations.

Dormouse:
As promised, I've had a quick look at how to do a creative story type zettelkasten.

It's mostly a question of remembering the rules:
One thought per card.
Simple not verbose.
Cards should be easily reviewed. Physical cards are easy and a simple digital analogy is likely to make the process easier.
It should be possible to move the cards around.
You need to be able to link them.
Tags can help.

So, what to do?
The answer is simply to record all your ideas, whatever they are, and whether they link in your mind or not. No need for them to be driven by a single project, although the chances are that's how your mind will be focusing when you do it.

An example:

card1 Plot idea. Urchin becomes local hero. #plot
card2 Name Twiglet. Orphan. Small. #char #hero >card1
card3 Friendly inn-keeper. Name Blob #char
card4 Small wooden inn with tables on veranda. The Round House. Owner Blob . #place >card3
card5 Photo of Apron. Cook's apron? #clothing #apron #cook
card6 Name Rosie. Caring cook. #char >card5
card7 Twiglet allowed to collect pots at inn, paid by being allowed to eat any leftovers. #regular event >card3 >card6
card 8 'If he had a horse it would be a shetland with a limp.' #conversation
card9 Rosie has a daughter. #char
card10 Name Rosebud. Very beautiful. #char >card6 >card9
card11 Name Trot. Rosebud's pony. Present from boyfriend. #char #pet >card10
card12 Rich boy Name Bran. Enamoured of Rosebud. #char >card10 >card11
card13 Large substantial land owner. Bran's father. Name Tree. #char >card12

As you can see, this is someone sitting down with a snack bag trying to think of ideas for a new story. Inspiration limited, browsing the web at the same time. Then remembering something they'd heard someone say on a bus but forgotten to write down. It's very static - needs something to drive a bit of movement so they think:

card14 Twiglet moons over Rosebud. #motive  >card2 >card10 >card12
But that feels old hat. And Twiglet is too small, so unrealistic. So:
card15 Twiglet moons over Rosebud's pony Trot. #motive >card2 >card10 card11

Better. Then catch a bit of news on the radio:
card16 Epidemic. #event #motive
card 17 Epidemic is traced back to Trot. #event #motive
But it doesn't really fit any imaginable arc. Maybe for the beginning fo the sequel. So add #sequel1

Obviously this is oversimplified, and it's at a very early stage of imagining.
It should be obvious that this facilitates free thinking, switching around later and building complexities, but also that it is slow and cumbersome. As the process continues, cards can have new cards linked with information and description etc.
This is a plotter's zettel.

A pantser probably has less to gain, but could still do one:
card1 Bob
card2 Sue
card3 Bob says to Sue
Card4 Then they
Card5 Karl interrupts

Just writing on cards rather than in a document. I doubt it's worth it, but does allow shuffling later.

If you were writing mostly about dialogue and words, then each card would be dialogue ideas written as they come to mind. Subsequent cards with sharper words.

I've not found many programs on Android that will do this adequately. Trello can. ColorNote allows [[wikilinks]].
Most can't do links. Many don't allow the easy going through and moving that makes the process work.

Dormouse:
I'm aware that I don't know exactly where I am, but it doesn't feel very like where I thought I was going.

I blame atomicity and snippets.
A .crd extension that conveys a universal index card format and file viewers that showed the cards would be good. And probably better than the universal portrait sheet of paper on landscape monitors. But snippets are fragments - they only have value from their relationships with other atoms and snippets, and those relationships can only be held in a database, which takes us away from the universal. I fear that even a plaintext account of these relationship would require interpretation and interpreters.

It makes me uneasy. I always accepted the value of databases for work in progress, but this is potentially very, very long-term progress. And a degree of dependency I was hoping to escape. I shall keep sources in documents. I will save interim WIP in documents. My own documents will likely be some form of plaintext. But that's not as independent as i was hoping.

OTOH, it is a move towards primitive. Using atoms is more fundamental than using more complex contstructions.

I'm not quite sure when the index card light switched on. Obviously informed by Luhmann and the zettelkasten movement. I'm not sure I will actually build a zettelkasten as such, and I never used index cards in the past as many have done. But I will be doing it much more in future.
Annoying that I've just seen recommendations for apparently excellent index card programs, one for iOS and the other for Windows. I won't even check them out. There seems to be nothing for Android. I'd prefer a more flexible alternative but think I'm likely to be stuck with Trello. At least it seems big and well supported enough to last for a long time.

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