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I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
tomos:
i had a quote i wanted to address.
I start the note, put the quote. then i proceed to write all my thoughts on this. It was a lot, lol. way more than lurman would put on a note card. I feel im doing it wrong. I think im doing more than one thought. maybe multiple thoughts. so mentally, i still feel i am not getting it, lol.
-superboyac (November 05, 2019, 02:48 PM)
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I'm pretty sure Dormouse wrote above about first writing, and then breaking down that writing into notes. (Sorry, I didnt look for the post...) What I like about the system as described is that it encourages you to write rather than just hoard (I do that, or at least I'm slow to do any writing).
Dormouse:
I feel im doing it wrong. I think im doing more than one thought. maybe multiple thoughts. so mentally, i still feel i am not getting it, lol.-superboyac (November 05, 2019, 02:48 PM)
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I don't know that you're doing anything wrong, except being too wordy. It is hard.
* It will probably be easier when you are more used to it.
* It will probably be easier when you already have an extensive network and are starting with an idea about the thoughts and where they would fit.
* But part of the difficulty, I suspect, is making your thoughts tight and precise. I'm not sure how much easier that can get because it does involve intense thinking.
My guess is that what you have done,so far, is what I have been calling first stage notes. I think you need a gap before going over them (iirc, Ahrens said that Luhmann went through them in the evening). At that point you need to split them into their constituent parts and then write new notes carefully, one thought to a note. There may be a sequence to these thoughts (in which case there's a parent-child sequence) and they will all link to your first note.
When I look at posts on zettelkasten.de, I can't avoid the suspicion that most of them aren't doing it right. Too much linking, too many notes, not enough thinking. Luhmann's main (second) zettelkasten was started 1963 and stopped in 1997: that's 34 years. It has 67,000 cards in one, admittedly wide ranging, area of interest. Less than 2000 cards a year. Assuming 250 working days, he averaged 8 cards a day. Eight thoughts that he decided to record. If he was doing a lot of other things, then maybe one thought every half hour. The thinking isn't easy, achieving the precision isn't easy. There's disentangling the thoughts from each other. And composing the words.
Dormouse:
I'm pretty sure Dormouse wrote above about first writing, and then breaking down that writing into notes.-tomos (November 05, 2019, 04:08 PM)
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Yes.
First I have the fleeting note, very quick brief comment.
Then my first stage notes where I make an effort to word it.
The the second stage notes where I integrate what I have done so far into a series of single thought notes, trying to be clear and writing with precision. This is the stage where making sensible links first becomes possible. This stage was also very effortful.
But remember, I don't really know what I'm doing. Just puzzling and trying to work it out.
superboyac:
I feel im doing it wrong. I think im doing more than one thought. maybe multiple thoughts. so mentally, i still feel i am not getting it, lol.-superboyac (November 05, 2019, 02:48 PM)
--- End quote ---
I don't know that you're doing anything wrong, except being too wordy. It is hard.
* It will probably be easier when you are more used to it.
* It will probably be easier when you already have an extensive network and are starting with an idea about the thoughts and where they would fit.
* But part of the difficulty, I suspect, is making your thoughts tight and precise. I'm not sure how much easier that can get because it does involve intense thinking.
My guess is that what you have done,so far, is what I have been calling first stage notes. I think you need a gap before going over them (iirc, Ahrens said that Luhmann went through them in the evening). At that point you need to split them into their constituent parts and then write new notes carefully, one thought to a note. There may be a sequence to these thoughts (in which case there's a parent-child sequence) and they will all link to your first note.
When I look at posts on zettelkasten.de, I can't avoid the suspicion that most of them aren't doing it right. Too much linking, too many notes, not enough thinking. Luhmann's main (second) zettelkasten was started 1963 and stopped in 1997: that's 34 years. It has 67,000 cards in one, admittedly wide ranging, area of interest. Less than 2000 cards a year. Assuming 250 working days, he averaged 8 cards a day. Eight thoughts that he decided to record. If he was doing a lot of other things, then maybe one thought every half hour. The thinking isn't easy, achieving the precision isn't easy. There's disentangling the thoughts from each other. And composing the words.
-Dormouse (November 05, 2019, 04:37 PM)
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Ah! yes that makes sense. I can see how this can drastically help not only my thinking, but effective writing. very cool. I am rather excited about this.
Dormouse:
I'm pretty sure that the value of the system, still presuming it has one, is in:
* the depth of thought required
* the clarity and precise definition required
* and the thinking required to link that thought to other related thoughts.
Wording well may aid the above, but certainly aids the transfer into a written paper or book.
The atomicity is an essential restriction.
All the rest, all the technical stuff, can be done in many different ways with no effect on outcome.
So, unfortunately, there will be at least two years of effort and hard work before there's any chance of seeing it's really working for you.
very cool. I am rather excited about this.-superboyac (November 05, 2019, 05:05 PM)
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I think that could be a very good place to start. I'm more daunted than excited, which does't help the getting going.
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