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I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten
wraith808:
Well, if I had another client that would actually use that format, then I suppose nothing would have been. But moving to something else that doesn't do the same... Not vendor locked is not the same thing as usable in another platform. There's also the matter of the time spent color coding the types of files/folders.-wraith808 (October 30, 2019, 10:24 PM)
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I get that.
I restricted myself to the filename approach because I could access them by file search on any platform. I'm trying to avoid dependence on any particular software. Haven't reached the tagging stage yet, so I'm free to change my mind. SetTags is the only other one I know that uses filenames, though I expected there would be others. Can't say I've taken to TagSpaces or SetTags. I did consider simply using Bulk Rename and manage the tags manually.
-Dormouse (October 31, 2019, 05:24 AM)
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With you re-starting this conversation around tagspaces, I tried it again. Still the empty folder problem. So I deleted my installation and then used a new zip. It started working! For how long, I don't know. But it could have just been user error, though nowhere on the site do they say don't overwrite when you're upgrading. I noticed that the interface is a lot spiffier than it was when I used it before, so perhaps that change was enough to make it a breaking change?
Dormouse:
I have topic notes which can be just lists of links to internet articles, links to my other main type of page (sources). Source pages are so I can either: save the article, save the bits of the article I like, or pull the article apart because I'm trying to understand it. The topics allow me to collect different sources. Sometimes my topics have been refined and rewritten, sometimes they are basic. -kfitting (October 30, 2019, 04:57 AM)
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Makes sense. My usual webclipping into OneNote or Evernote works perfectly well and simply and there's no reason not to let it continue to function as my private hoard.
There's no reason I can't add things to my zettel that never get a real note. Available in text search, but can easily be archived if they start clogging usability.
I've also decided to add an annotated text folder. Partly because it is a stage in the zettel; partly because they may never warrant more processing.
And an Archive folder.
It's all about efficient workflow for me. If I'm reading a book or paper, I won't necessarily read all of it, let alone make notes. I see no virtue in spending time on it now for no short-term purpose when there may never be a purpose. What I will do is note what I haven't read or annotated, and why.
Dormouse:
Programs I've selected so far include Bulk Rename, DocFetcher and Q-Dir.
Bulk Rename works very well, as i'm sure everyone here knows.
I've used DocFetcher previously. Portable version on same disk as the zettel. I can choose the folders I want indexing, and it will only be indexing when I decide to use it.
Also used Q-Dir before. I have Directory Opus and XYplorer, but I can see the potential value in having four listers open in front of me.
I've also put the portable Screenshot Captor on the same for clippings designed for the zettel. Will need to play more with how to use it. PDFs are very inefficient.
Of the taggers, I'm most likely to go with TagSpaces if I get comfortable with it (and it works). I tried to use the clipping feature once without effect (claims it is a potential replacement for Evernote).
I'm mulling greps.
For writing notes and documents, I'm happy to mix and match. I'm okay with Atlantis as my main writer for the notes with Jarte as a fall back). I'm writing a longer piece putting my thoughts together. And went automatically to WriteMonkey: the text folding is just so useful. I have the colour systems on all of them set up to be gentle on my eyes.
superboyac:
ok, i'm not going to read the book. lol. i just want to quickly learn how the system works. I'm a little hung up on the one thought one note aspect.
I'm using folders purely as stages or components of the zettel. So I have one for sources. One for resources (stuff I have written myself that's a resource for the writing part - might be a setting). Another for the writing. And then the Notes/zettel itself. One might be about the purpose of a scene. Another might be about the style of dialogue and why. Each new thought has a new note.
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yes, this is helpful. I need some tips on how to begin this.
So you are saying:
sources folder: things you copy/paste? like, you didnt write it yourself
resources folder: things you write or word yourself, but not the actual script itself
writing folder: these are the parts that end up in the actual script
zettel folder: im not sure about this...like, this is the intense analysis of the ideas for the script?
i dont know if all that makes sense to me yet. I'll try it and see how it goes.
my initial instinct is to have all the notes in one folder, and let the linking and other content stuff link to the other notes. but i also like what you are doing with categorizations. not sure what the categories should be though.
so i just read some more about zettel, and it seems that using a single zettel for everything is recommended. i'll try that. and my real practice will be to stick to the one topic, one idea. i do not yet know how that will turn out as far as a creative writing exercise, but i can see it working. well...i do like your idea of using maybe a separate folder for writing aspect of it, that is, the final script where i am pulling things together? i dont know. but i heard that the zettel inventor would also write a lot of books. so he must use the zettel to organize his thoughts, but i doubt he was writing the book in the zettel. so i feel there must be some middleman staging area? or not! i should try and see.
Dormouse:
I have a problem. My methodology means that hyperlinks are likely to be broken quite often when tags are added or removed. Changing methodology for tags means that the system won’t be independent of OS or software. I appreciate that there is no such problem for the users of the spiffy programs.
The unique identifier means I can easily search for the linked file(s), but that will be more work and more time. Maybe I can automate by sending the identifier to Everything through the context menu or an AHK script; not as much more work and time but still more. If text search and tags work faster and easier then I can see usage tipping towards them.
So how important are these direct links?
I know Sascha (zettelkasten.de) has attacked the value of one category of direct link (the folgezettel) and Daniel Lüdecke has defended its necessity. I can see both points of view.
I understand the value of tight links raised by kfitting. I believe these can be duplicated within a tagging system, but in usage probably wouldn’t be. Tags can’t replace the folgezettel.
All such questions have something unknowable at their heart:
How much did Luhmann’s precise methodology reflect the limitations of his technology rather than an ideal?
How much would my needs be best met by Luhmann’s precise methodology rather than a variant?
I think Sascha’s contrast between principles and methodology is an error. Anything Luhmann said about the principles of his system would have been an emergent property of his methodology. I don’t believe that his zettelkasten system came into being fully fledged as a result of his theoretical ideas; there will have been trial and error and his explanation of the difference between not working/working/best working will be the principles. And he never had the opportunity to try tagging or full text search.
I will be pragmatic. I will insert hyperlinks when it seems easy enough to be worth the time and effort. I will put parent hyperlinks a the top, child at the bottom and other links in between – when I put them in. If the links break, I can easily search and replace if it seems worthwhile.
I will also have a system to duplicate his Keyword Index. This detailed the numbers of a few key notes that were good starting places for explorations on that topic. The keyword will be the note name and it will have an Index tag. On the note will be links to the key notes for further exploration.
As an extra, I will have notes which simply contain links to those notes used in a single investigation, and they will be tagged as such. The methodology will be that I will put copies of notes I am looking at in a virtual or temporary folder; delete the ones that aren’t useful, and then copy the list left at the end as links into a new card; I will add a short explanation of the investigation and the value of this list of notes.
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