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I'm thinking of going primitive, with discursion into zettelkasten

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Dormouse:
Funny that there are people selling products in the 1000s of $ to teach you how to organize your notes.
-urlwolf (February 03, 2022, 08:13 AM)
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Stunning. Happened with Roam as well, not sure about other apps though one poster from Obsidian seemed to have a least a bit of a go at a Logseq market.

What disturbs me about it, is who has that sort of money to spare for a course about taking notes? The Obsidian community is largely students, and they do have a tendency to watch videos, which is how they reached Obsidian in the first place, or ask for them when they don't understand something. I know there are rich students, but even so.

To be fair, Nick appears to have a reputation for offering something substantial. And his LYT package is available free, and his MoC concept has been helpful to many Obsidian users.

Dormouse:
Zim is written mostly by one dev, Jaap, who is really amazing and dedicated, but has a fulltime job and does zim on his spare time!-urlwolf (February 03, 2022, 07:15 AM)
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I'm not sure that's a disadvantage long-term.
In my experience, the smoothest, most productive programs have been produced by one developer in their spare time, and developed and refined over a very long period. Abstractspoon's ToDoList, The Journal, WriteMonkey. The key being the very long steady development by a developer who uses the program themselves and has a clear vision about its purpose.

It's only when reaching 1000s of notes in zim that I'm starting to value more the advantages of a dynamic graph... with many notes I would love to link them graphically.-urlwolf (February 03, 2022, 07:15 AM)
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I have found one potential problem in zim. Graph view is a second class citizen. It's static (can't filter, search, group etc), it's slow to render (>10s for large graphs), and the lead dev doesn't have plans to make  it better.-urlwolf (February 03, 2022, 03:26 AM)
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The downside is that your needs have to align with those of the developer.

Dormouse:
If you can convince yourself that it doesn't matter, then by all means you an use any browser-based tool for writing... I can't :)-urlwolf (February 03, 2022, 03:26 AM)
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Most of the time, it doesn't matter much to me. I don't need to read as I type (can be distracting) and the latency in my own mind about what words to type would usually be much greater. Most of the time.

But my typical workflow appears to be changing too - for a variety of reasons. Instead of typing into the ultimate target, I'm typing into what I call a writing pad, and then copy/pasting into the target programs. It's something I've often done, because, depending on what I'm doing, I can be quite fussy about my writing environment. I can write in anything but sometimes that interrupts the flow. So, with this, typing lag would be irrelevant, as I wouldn't be writing in it directly.

Dormouse:
Quote from Obsidian forum re conversion issues with markdown lines

I loaded up the CSS snipped and opened Obsidian with the snippet applied. Then I found a long article and copied and pasted it into MS, just to take a look. There were line endings at the ends of paragraphs which I expected. However, since the markdown code would have to be eliminated to use in word, I ran it through a standard online markdown converter to html. When I pasted it back into MS, the line endings were stripped and the paragraphs ran together, which would be a real headache in a long piece of text.
-Rayo, post:14, topic:30851
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It sounds very similar to the conversion issue I had going into OPML and back, which means that I need all text (bullet notes) in my Workflowy outlines to be formatted in paragraphs rather than lines. I have systematically tested all the editors and word processors on this machine to see which paste into the Workflowy notes with empty lines between paragraphs (a theoretical paragraph won't cut it if a copy and paste into Workflowy doesn't take it as such). It's a smaller list than I would like - Typora, MarkText, Atlantis, Word - but four is better than none.

When I pasted from WriteMonkey 2.7 after copying in HTML, it was interesting to see <p> at the beginning and </p> at the end, but no <br> at all. The intervening lines showed visually, but I know they'd disappear with another export/import. Nothing on any other copy.

PS
I decided to test Atticus, just to get an idea of how it works. But also thought I'd see how it works with this paragraph/line issue.
And it is very odd indeed.
Copying and pasting from a markdown file that is purely lines results in paragraphs. Those paragraphs past with the necessary spaces into Workflowy.
Pasting markdown paragraphs, double spaces paragraphs in Atticus (and then Workflowy).
But doing the same in Dynalist only produces lines.

I played round quite a lot more using other programs. Copy and Paste is inconsistent between programs.
afaics an exact test of the proposed use case is required to be confident it will work. And the test needs to be in both directions. What I found most surprising is that distinct paragraphs in Workflowy could become concatenated lines on pasting. OPML appears more consistent than copy/paste, which sometimes works best as plaintext and sometimes not.

Dormouse:
I'm moving more activity into Workflowy and away from markdown/Obsidian.
The original attraction was the kanban/outline toggle which I use frequently.
But it also has wikilinks and editable transclusions (aka Mirror) - Obsidian's transclusionos aren't editable yet.

And then there's writing.
There's paragraphs vs lines. Conversion works, but consistency isn't great. But no glitches at all if I use word processors. I can even write using nested bullets and WPs convert in seconds. And everything needs to end as docx or pdf in the end (all formatters and publishers accept those, but I only know Jutoh accepting markdown), so is there any need for a markdown stage in the process? (I'm not a web writer; I never need HTML.) I will eventually keep plaintext copies; I'll save regular OPML copies; I may or may not actually do the writing in a plaintext editor - it's what I have done for years anyway.

So my point of balance is moving. Partly because of bit of jar in Obsidian workflows; partly because Workflowy seems to have become much more competent over the last year or so.

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