ATTENTION: You are viewing a page formatted for mobile devices; to view the full web page, click HERE.

Main Area and Open Discussion > Living Room

What Killed the Middle Class?

<< < (6/7) > >>

“Equality may demand the restraint of the liberty of those who wish to dominate; liberty — without some modicum of which there is no choice and therefore no possibility of remaining human as we understand the word — may have to be curtailed to make way for social welfare, to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to shelter the homeless, to leave room for the liberty of others, to allow justice or fairness to be exercised.”
— Isaiah Berlin
-xtabber (April 04, 2016, 08:54 AM)
--- End quote ---
I'm rather pleased that you made this quote as it supports a point that I felt needed to be made, but which I had wondered whether I should make as it would effectively mean that the majority would thereby mandate a restriction of the freedoms/rights for a minority (The 1%) of society - which, though it might be acceptable in the US, could perhaps be deemed intolerable in most European democracies today. However, it is exactly what happened in the French Revolution, and it was arguably and in hindsight a necessary step, and we know that "history repeats" where tyrants have prevailed.
Some good reasons there also, perhaps, for the US public to insist on the continuing right to bear arms (Second Amendment) - much the same reasons as the French.

The recent leak of the mass of data about tax havens being used to salt away tax-free millions/billions of dollars by named members of The 1% and/or named government leaders and/or named criminals/corporations alike is arguably merely yet another exposure of the reality of The Establishment and/or The 1% in action. Corrupt as all heck.

@eleman gave a link (above) to the YouTube video of the Bernie Sanders interview on the Young Turks.
See:  (33mins.)
I watched it all today and found it very interesting.
Though I thought he made one or two and what seemed to me to be false premises or statements in that interview, a lot of what he said otherwise would seem to stand up to close scrutiny. Some pretty robust statements here:

* At 14:58 - Talking about the MSM propaganda control, a good example is shown, and Sanders says: "You have the facts right in front of them and they can avoid those facts, based on ideology."
* At 24:15 - Talking about the huge amounts of corporate and other money money to be made by politicians, and which thus drive politicians and bias: "I think, you know, that money in politics is the major political crisis that we face right now..." and discusses the corruption inherent in the Establishment/system.
* At 30:06 - Talking about what needs to be achieved to reform politics in the US: "We need a political revolution." and discusses the need for engagement of the people (and younger people) to achieve that.

From 2012, here's an interesting Guardian (UK) report on some investigative research of how TE+T1% (The Establishment and The 1%) had hoarded their wealth offshore for tax evasion/avoidance and greater unearned income: Wealth doesn't trickle down – it just floods offshore, research reveals | Business | The Guardian.
Incidentally, I recall reading somewhere that the Guardian Trust itself puts money offshore for just such reasons.    :o
(Excerpts copied below and sans embedded hyperlinks/images.)
A far-reaching new study suggests a staggering $21tn in assets has been lost to global tax havens. If taxed, that could have been enough to put parts of Africa back on its feet – and even solve the euro crisis.

The world's super-rich have taken advantage of lax tax rules to siphon off at least $21 trillion, and possibly as much as $32tn, from their home countries and hide it abroad – a sum larger than the entire American economy.

James Henry, a former chief economist at consultancy McKinsey and an expert on tax havens, has conducted groundbreaking new research for the Tax Justice Network campaign group – sifting through data from the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and private sector analysts to construct an alarming picture that shows capital flooding out of countries across the world and disappearing into the cracks in the financial system. ...

..."These estimates reveal a staggering failure," says John Christensen of the Tax Justice Network. "Inequality is much, much worse than official statistics show, but politicians are still relying on trickle-down to transfer wealth to poorer people.

"This new data shows the exact opposite has happened: for three decades extraordinary wealth has been cascading into the offshore accounts of a tiny number of super-rich."

In total, 10 million individuals around the world hold assets offshore, according to Henry's analysis; but almost half of the minimum estimate of $21tn – $9.8tn – is owned by just 92,000 people. And that does not include the non-financial assets – art, yachts, mansions in Kensington – that many of the world's movers and shakers like to use as homes for their immense riches. ...

--- End quote ---

Gary North's newsletter (refer had a link to this post on the Of Two Minds blog: What Killed the Middle Class?

-IainB (March 28, 2016, 12:43 AM)
--- End quote ---

Well I try to stay out of these conversations because I find that large swaths of the internet are simply saturated with people who don't really think (sheeple) or who are terrified to discuss the reality, or simply don't want to because it is not facebook selfie material. Which is fine.

Businesses make nice little statements like: We don't discuss religio-political issues, as though they can be compartmentalized from business.

Personally I think there is a mastermind group that controls most of the wealth in the USA. I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but I know of certain groups...well their names are common knowledge, but their are groups within the groups and that top-tier 1% that make a lot of money and subtly or overtly try to undermine independent citizens not affiliated with their clique.

If we were living under a fascist rule, like Hitler for example, it would be as simple as making people slave laborers in factories to produce some goods (cars, drugs etc...) but since America is a little better, it has to be slightly less overt.

I believe the basic goal of these top tier groups is to draw a grid over all the land of the earth and as best they can divvy up all the real estate between themselves and their members.

There is no religious belief in it (although there may be religious symbols and undertones) but mostly it is just pure monopoly mindset.

Real estate is the driving factor in my opinion because it is one of the biggest 'status' symbols.

Not that real estate speculation is bad in anyway, just that it may be getting monopolized to some extent.

Then there is all the bs with the currency.

If there was a gold standard, cheats couldn't monkey around so much with the fine print and dupe people into paying such high interest rates.

If you know about advertising, credit law and how the offers are crafted, they are designed to give credit to people (some half-literate or young and in need) at 5% to 10% for 2 yrs and then BAM! hit em with a 30% interest rate.

Once that happens there may be no way for the 'mark' to get out of debt...who may have gotten as little as a few thousand for a college loan or for whatever...

The person's lifeblood is basically sucked dry, there is no way for them to build a business or own a home, and the money is transferred to the established players in the capital lending markets.

I think technology like Bitcoin and even PayPal are good for these reasons because they can make financial processes more transparent.

Take California for example:

California, for all it's natural beauty has some sordid history and was probably involved in fascist banking from the early 20th century.

The main driving economic forces in California right now are

A. methamphetamine (a great contribution to society from Hitler's scientists)
B. Mercedes (a nice luxury vehicle, high quality for sure, developed under fascist rule...but hey, looks shiny!)

If you want to talk drug trade, luxury goods and toys, american society, class wealth etc... yeah that's basically it...

Still echoes and emanations from as far back as WWII.

What some would call the lower classes i.e. drug users and drug sell or use meth and go back and forth to jail.

The lawyers and judges and state take their money to defend them or jail them and buy a new mercedes (or beamer as the case may be) with the money.

The lower classes take out loans
The lenders bilk a good percentage of them for astronomical interest rates.

And there it is.

The literate, middle class technology types with some good education and who aren't in the drug selling or using lifestyle or not affiliated with the secret societies aren't really climbing too high.

Yeah you can make money with technology but if you talk to people, a lot of it is simply illusion.

Take what you think you could make, divide it by 50 and subtract 10.

Technology for all of it's touted miracles, for many is not much better than slave labor..simply slave labor without the sweat.

That's my opinion anyways.

If you want to get further into religio-political discourse I can go there but would discuss privately because my views are probably not in the ballpark of a large percentage of my target market (as I'm in independent software sales)..

P.S. I'm fairly certain from what I've heard from fairly credible sources that a large percentage of the U.S. judges are part of the 10% group and actively seeking to be in the 1% group (already put their application in, on the waiting list for the inner, inner circle) so good luck changing it legally.

I'm not an anarchist and don't want to mess with 'the law'...

So basically I'm saying I would like to leave the US if possible for greener pastures, build something different...but that is hardly possible without fairly large sums of money and unless I find some worthwhile people to do it with and these groups have their tentacles into foreign countries as well, so even if you move you may still find yourself dealing with the same issues.

well then there's the fact that all the major tech companies are basically pro-g** and trying to kill off conscientious objectors financially.


[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page

Go to full version