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I need help coming up with a plan to fix my NTFS security permissions problems
40hz:
What x16wda said.
I'd actually take it a bit further at this point and probably just copy off the data and redo the server. It doesn't take that long. And at least that way you'll be sure to annihilate whatever gremlins may still be lurking in your present setup. I'm also not super happy with how that RAID is behaving right now, so I'd probably want to wipe and reinitialize the array while I was at it - and check for the most recent firmware and drivers for the card.
Besides, it's all good exercise. Because many times you'll need to do a server twice when you're starting out with Windows server. One time to gain experience. The second time to set it up the way you now realize you should have done it in the first place.
I must have redone the first NT Server I ever built six times in the course of three days before I was happy with it. (It used something like 18+ 3.5" floppys to do the install. So it took a loooong time back then.) Novell was even worse if you decided to format and certify your own HD instead of buying one already formatted and ready to use. That alone could take the better part of a day.
We've all been there so it's no reflection on you. Just part of the entry fee to get in the game. :)
superboyac:
Besides, it's all good exercise. Because many times you'll need to do a server twice when you're starting out with Windows server. One time to gain experience. The second time to set it up the way you now realize you should have done it in the first place.
-40hz (August 14, 2015, 06:02 PM)
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Thanks! This sounds accurate as to where I'm at right now. I think I'm going to order a couple of large drives, copy the data that I don't have other places onto it, and redo the whole thing. The dev said i don't have to do that, but no other suggestion is working. And also, i haven't reported it, but during my troubleshooting process, I have been encountering errors on the drives that, while they may not be real (virtual part of the software raid), they are making me uncomfortable because of the amount of fiddling i am doing. So i think i'm going to start over very soon.
also 40...you said to use ntfs permissions to control users...the dev says the opposite. he says to use sharing permissions and leave ntfs fairly wide open. and i think that's because of the way he has designed his software, in his words, to play "fast and loose" with ntfs permissions. this raid solution is like this...you can pull out a drive and access the files no problem any time. so all his raid is doing is like merging the same directories on different drives together (like windows libraries). so i think that has to do with why he recommends the sharing.
i've checked my drives, and the ntfs permissions are rock solid and consistent everywhere. basically full control for everyone and everything, with consistent inherited permissions (using the setacl studio software which is really helpful).
4wd, i have used that software! it might have been the first thing i tried. i'm slowly building my server troubleshooting kit.
40hz:
also 40...you said to use ntfs permissions to control users...the dev says the opposite. he says to use sharing permissions and leave ntfs fairly wide open. and i think that's because of the way he has designed his software, in his words, to play "fast and loose" with ntfs permissions. this raid solution is like this...you can pull out a drive and access the files no problem any time. so all his raid is doing is like merging the same directories on different drives together (like windows libraries). so i think that has to do with why he recommends the sharing.
-superboyac (August 15, 2015, 12:54 PM)
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If he does, that doesn't give me warm fuzzies about his technology...but what can you do?
Ok...if that's the case, do it his way. My point was, when implementing access security, primarily use NTFS permissions - or share permissions - but don't get too fancy with both. Keep one side dirt simple. There are arguments for both approaches. I prefer NTFS permissions, but it would take me a while to explain why. And it's mostly because I'm more familiar and comfortable with that approach.
If you're getting drives, maybe consider opting for "server grade" or "enterprise" drives if you're getting big ones. They're not that much more expensive. A few bucks at most - and they're far better built and reliable. These are the drives primarily engineered for NAS and related applications. A 4TB runs for around $200 - $225 (street) last I looked.
I'd check with your RAID solution first to see if these are a potential problem for it. Because it's generally best to go with the recommended brands and model numbers when doing RAID. Some cards are extremely fussy about the drives that get plugged into them.
Maybe somebody can shake JavaJones's tree and see what he thinks about all this? He's in the "biz" too. But he deals with a greater variety of client types - and sees a broader range of oddball projects - than I do.
Luck! :Thmbsup:
P.S. Your first act after you have a server up and running, plus all the Microsoft updates installed, and all your hardware drivers checked and updated, is to make a system image and create a recovery repair disk. Do it before you add any users, create shares, etc. You want a pure vanilla "known good configuration" and properly functioning server image to fall back on if your project one day decides to all go sideways. That way, if you (or somebody else) borks something big time, you have a "genesis image" to reload and be on your merry way with. Figure twenty minutes to put your server back up vs several hours doing it from scratch.
40hz:
@SB - I forgot to ask...which version of Windows Server do you have? Standard, Essentials, etc.?
superboyac:
The first option I considered was using the new windows storage spaces. I actually tried it, and it was nice. However, it wasn't terribly fast (although flexraid isn't that much faster, but still faster), it felt more complicated to setup, and it seemed to have more restrictions on it. Also, the refs file system (which I also tried) isn't proven yet from what i read, and it also has certain restrictions vs ntfs(although those restrictions are not things i care about). Ultimately, i chose flexraid because of the one fact that you can pull out a drive any time and access the files. I like that so much, and even in this beginning stage, it's proving to be handy. My setup is all screwed up, but I'm still able to access my files. I tried the zfs option with a linux distro also...but quickly got scared, real quick lol! Like at the startup command prompt to install the OS. I don't have the time to get used to that right now.
I'll definitely make an image once i get the new one setup. This is turning out to be a lot of work. I've been spending most of my free time on it the past 2 weeks. But having a server with a large storage capacity is already improving my life. I have all these files all over the place in different media, etc., and i've been managing it for years, and i'm getting tired of it. I'm looking forward to having a box or two where everything goes. And i'm also interested in unifying all my increasing number of devices i'm using for different reasons. You were right, having a server is great...kind of a turning point.
i've been reading about hard drives a lot. Thanks for recommending the enterprise drives, i wasn't convinced previously. it's still confusing...take western digital...they've added so many colors the past few years, it's so confusing. I liked their black caviar drives previously because of the 5 year warranty. These used to be considered their enterprise drives. but now they are calling it their "desktop performance" drives. They also have their NAS drives, which are Red. And a Red Pro, which is like more enterprise but still desktop, lol. Their new line of real enterprise drives are called RE, funny enough ("real enterprise?"). the 4TB ones are running around $245 on newegg. I'm not familiar with the enterprise line of other brands. I'm fine with the cost, I experienced the deathstars in the early 2000s and have since tried to not compromise on hard drive quality for any kind of cost purpose.
oy...so much stuff. I tried for a couple years to convince one of my friends or cousins to make me a server, but I wasn't manipulative enough.
@SB - I forgot to ask...which version of Windows Server do you have? Standard, Essentials, etc.?
-40hz (August 15, 2015, 05:31 PM)
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standard.
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